Jesus Camp

[Robert]

Steve - you're viewing all of this from your point of view. You are not taking into considerations outside forces.

All the points you've brought up are symptoms of a great issue, you dont believe in God. Since you dont, none of the actions of a believer can been seen as 'normal'. News for you, none of us are 'normal' so I don't see the point in further debate on normal.

I will state it again, I do not approve of all actions carried out in the name of God. However, I do believe in Jesus and I have a relationship with him that you will not understand. That is ok. I would sugguest though that in your anger you do not seek to pass judgement or diminish the views of others.

If you are truly interested in figuring out about God, it doesn't require going to church. You can start by praying. If you simply wish to bash Christians for their believe you are serving no one any good. If this is your motive, to make fun of those who believe, I would ask "What is your problem?" and deal with the answers you come up with.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Robert

Steve - you're viewing all of this from your point of view. You are not taking into considerations outside forces.

All the points you've brought up are symptoms of a great issue, you dont believe in God. Since you dont, none of the actions of a believer can been seen as 'normal'. News for you, none of us are 'normal' so I don't see the point in further debate on normal.

I will state it again, I do not approve of all actions carried out in the name of God. However, I do believe in Jesus and I have a relationship with him that you will not understand. That is ok. I would sugguest though that in your anger you do not seek to pass judgement or diminish the views of others.

If you are truly interested in figuring out about God, it doesn't require going to church. You can start by praying. If you simply wish to bash Christians for their believe you are serving no one any good. If this is your motive, to make fun of those who believe, I would ask "What is your problem?" and deal with the answers you come up with.

I don't believe in god? Wow...that's news to me. It's true that I don't believe in your god, but that's a far cry from saying I don't believe in anything at all. I don't believe in a conditional god and I don't believe that god needs or even wants you to pledge your whole life to him/her/it. My ideas about god are probably best summed up by reading THIS

But I digress. The point of this is that there's nothing really christian about these people. So many people in this country are so quick to point out that religions like christianity are religions of peace and that religions like Islam are religions of the sword. Neither case is true, really since religion lies in people and people come from the factory with prejudices and troubles. But dressing your kids up like soldiers, telling them they're in a culture war, and that they're soldiers in god's army...that's pretty fucked.

[CD5Passion]

there are so many religions, and all of them are essentially connected to the same "god". personally i care to beleive what is evidence, evolution, dinosaurs. And I find it hard to trust religions when you have stuff such as the crusades lingering in the shadowed past.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

But I digress. The point of this is that there's nothing really christian about these people. So many people in this country are so quick to point out that religions like christianity are religions of peace and that religions like Islam are religions of the sword. Neither case is true, really since religion lies in people and people come from the factory with prejudices and troubles. But dressing your kids up like soldiers, telling them they're in a culture war, and that they're soldiers in god's army...that's pretty fucked.

Steve there you go with your judging again.

If you read the bible it states those who believe fight a spritiual war against Satan.

The movement of mass amounts of childern, and an increasing number of adults coming to Jesus; is what some believe is one of the signs of the second coming of Christ.

I think it's pointless to argue with you, you're not open minded. Anything said to a different point is shot down because it doesnt fit with your view of the world.

We are at war everyday, society is telling us to chase SMP to make ourselves happy. God tells us this will not bring you enternal happiness. A relationship with him will bring about a more meaningful life. Anyone who goes against the values of society is at war, because we're being force feed the ideas of society through the media and other channels.

So you believe in God, when was the last time you spoke to him/it and heard back from him? Believing there is a God doesn't mean ANYTHING unless you have a relationship with God.

It is true there is only one God of the universe, however all gods worshiped are not the same.

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by Robert

So you believe in God, when was the last time you spoke to him/it and heard back from him? Believing there is a God doesn't mean ANYTHING unless you have a relationship with God.

It is true there is only one God of the universe, however all gods worshiped are not the same.

just so you know man, you are starting to sound like a crazy fanatic. Your views on what is "demanded" from "god" is not law. I in no means have a "relationship" with god. But i do beleive that if he is in fact the forgiving being we say he is he will understand that I am truly happy living my life the way I want.

sooo are you saying that if someone worships a god that doesn't seem related to yours, they are wrong?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by CD5Passion

just so you know man, you are starting to sound like a crazy fanatic. Your views on what is "demanded" from "god" is not law. I in no means have a "relationship" with god. But i do beleive that if he is in fact the forgiving being we say he is he will understand that I am truly happy living my life the way I want.

sooo are you saying that if someone worships a god that doesn't seem related to yours, they are wrong?

You obviously don't understand the term fanatic, since you've so clearly miss used it. If you want to understand God better, read the new testiment. Nothing I've said is radical or even out there.

Since there can only be one God of the universe that rules over everything, by definition there cannot be multiples. I will leave it up to you to figure out what is right and what is wrong.

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by Robert

You obviously don't understand the term fanatic, since you've so clearly miss used it. If you want to understand God better, read the new testiment. Nothing I've said is radical or even out there.

Since there can only be one God of the universe that rules over everything, by definition there cannot be multiples. I will leave it up to you to figure out what is right and what is wrong.

there is no right and there is no wrong it's all basically the same

[ebpda9]

Originally Posted by Robert

Steve - you're viewing all of this from your point of view. You are not taking into considerations outside forces.

From what i read in this thread so far steve kinda attacks the fanatic side of the religion. While i am a non beliver myself i kinda get pissed when someone tries to shove their religious beliefs down my throat. After all, the fanatics are the ones trying to brainwash and push people to do stupid things in the name of "GOD". Last time i checked the religion was about "forgiving" not trying to instigate people against others. While you may have your relationship with Jesus, i am sure you won't be coming and ask me to pray, or revolt against othersbased on their religious beliefs

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by ebpda9

From what i read in this thread so far steve kinda attacks the fanatic side of the religion. While i am a non beliver myself i kinda get pissed when someone tries to shove their religious beliefs down my throat. After all, the fanatics are the ones trying to brainwash and push people to do stupid things in the name of "GOD". Last time i checked the religion was about "forgiving" not trying to instigate people against others. While you may have your relationship with Jesus, i am sure you won't be coming and ask me to pray, or revolt against othersbased on their religious beliefs

"go to hell stefan!"

woah...i think I think I was overcome by the spirit of satan

sorry mang

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ebpda9

From what i read in this thread so far steve kinda attacks the fanatic side of the religion. While i am a non beliver myself i kinda get pissed when someone tries to shove their religious beliefs down my throat. After all, the fanatics are the ones trying to brainwash and push people to do stupid things in the name of "GOD". Last time i checked the religion was about "forgiving" not trying to instigate people against others. While you may have your relationship with Jesus, i am sure you won't be coming and ask me to pray, or revolt against othersbased on their religious beliefs

You're right, I do not force my views upon others. I do however stand fast in my views on God and the relationship.

I have prayed with no-believers, and pray often for my unsaved friends. It is amazing to me as a born again Christian who doesn't fit the stand sterotype of what a Christian looks/acts like that after praying for my friends, the come and talk to me about God. These are conversations I never started. It has happened far to often to think it could just be a coincident - which I do not believe are possible.

People miss the point of a relationship with God, it's like having another Father. Unless your father misstreated you as a child, your father normally does everything in his power to see you raised right and with the things you need. Now if your human Father would be like that, imagine what your spiritual Father God would want to do in your life. For me it started when I was 15 (when I excepted Jesus) and things have gone in a direction I would have never expected. It was baby steps, now I'm married, moving to California and starting my own business. None of these things are of my sole doing. God works in ways that are more complicated and harder to understand then the simple ways of the word. This is why when Steve applies his fussy logic to situations and attacks them I feel he doesnt have the whole picture. I have spared you all the details, those interested can PM me.

Steve - you thought it was funny the woman prays over he slides, I pray over every test, assignment, piece of work and before every business phone call. In highschool I finished with a 65% average, currently I hold a 3.51GPA (I believe 87-90%) in college, while working 35-40hours/week (excluding Sundays). My business is moving forward and when I call people I have never done business with before they want to do business with me. There are things you dont understand at work.

Example:

I prayed prior to finding a web developer. I intially contact one developer/designer he seemed really good. I then thought I should get more quotes, silly me. I wasted two weeks going through 10 different quotes only to come back to the same team. It cannot all be explained, I have learned to live with that.

Leave these people alone, all those kids look happy. They don't seem as angry and hurt about their conditions as you do.

[GT40FIED]

Did a christian just tell me I'm not open minded? Hello pot...my name is kettle. If anything I'm TOO open minded. I think anyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want and do whatever they want unless it hurts others. Therein lies my problem with overly fanatical members of any religion (though in this country they are predominantly christian). People in numerous states have banned things like gay marriage...not because it makes sense from a political or economical standpoint, but rather because a few obscure passages in the bible say it's wrong. I've also personally found that christians in general are against any kind of sexual exploration. So in turning your personal religious convictions into law these people have essentially told gays that they aren't worthy of the same rights as others. Nevermind that the few countries that have legalized it are doing just fine...or at least as well as they were before. This is just an example, but the problem is pretty rampant. I mean...if you truely believe the "end days" are near, then what's the point in energy conservation? Why not just trash this planet? No one will be around to enjoy it anyway so let's go hog wild. Right? Then again, people have been wrong before.

You see Rob, I don't have any quarrel with people like you. You believe what you want to believe and even though it's not my cup of tea, that's cool for you and I take no issue with it. Nor do I take issue with sensible people of any religion. However, you've got to realize that preaching to people isn't the only way of forcing beliefs on them. Anytime you vote for a law that is exclusionary based on your religions tenets you are basically forcing your beliefs onto others. People need to learn to seperate what they think is good for themselves and what's good for mankind as a whole. I wholeheartedly think that the actions of many of these fanatical christians (or muslims or jews or whatever) confrom to the Jungian archetype of an external tormentor...in this case a vengeful god. I truely believe that religious fanaticism is not something to be rewarded as it often is in this country...I think it belongs in the DSM-IV along with all of the other mental illness diagnosis. Just remember...this does NOT apply to the 98% of religious folks that are just trying to make good of their lives. More power to them. It's just unfortunate that they get drowned out by the crazies.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Did a christian just tell me I'm not open minded? Hello pot...my name is kettle. If anything I'm TOO open minded. I think anyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want and do whatever they want unless it hurts others. Therein lies my problem with overly fanatical members of any religion (though in this country they are predominantly christian). People in numerous states have banned things like gay marriage...not because it makes sense from a political or economical standpoint, but rather because a few obscure passages in the bible say it's wrong. I've also personally found that christians in general are against any kind of sexual exploration. So in turning your personal religious convictions into law these people have essentially told gays that they aren't worthy of the same rights as others. Nevermind that the few countries that have legalized it are doing just fine...or at least as well as they were before. This is just an example, but the problem is pretty rampant. I mean...if you truely believe the "end days" are near, then what's the point in energy conservation? Why not just trash this planet? No one will be around to enjoy it anyway so let's go hog wild. Right? Then again, people have been wrong before.

You see Rob, I don't have any quarrel with people like you. You believe what you want to believe and even though it's not my cup of tea, that's cool for you and I take no issue with it. Nor do I take issue with sensible people of any religion. However, you've got to realize that preaching to people isn't the only way of forcing beliefs on them. Anytime you vote for a law that is exclusionary based on your religions tenets you are basically forcing your beliefs onto others. People need to learn to seperate what they think is good for themselves and what's good for mankind as a whole. I wholeheartedly think that the actions of many of these fanatical christians (or muslims or jews or whatever) confrom to the Jungian archetype of an external tormentor...in this case a vengeful god. I truely believe that religious fanaticism is not something to be rewarded as it often is in this country...I think it belongs in the DSM-IV along with all of the other mental illness diagnosis. Just remember...this does NOT apply to the 98% of religious folks that are just trying to make good of their lives. More power to them. It's just unfortunate that they get drowned out by the crazies.

You just generalized me and sterotyped me into your view of a Christian. Remember it was Christians who founded this nation (Canada and America) and allowed freedom of religion. Don't sugguest for a moment they were not open minded. Christians are some of the most open minded and tollerate of people out there. You on the other hand have a problem with all organized religion, and in previous posts were calling for the removal of churchs for tax free statuses.

Has God ever forced his views onto you? I have never forced my views or preached to someone for the sake of it. God doesn't yell at you to get your attention he waits calmly whispering and hopes you will take up a conversation.

I think you need to be very careful of the use of the terms fanatical that you describe things that are 'extreem' or 'unusual'. I didnt see anything in that video I hadn't seen before (minus the kids with camo paint - though I've seen it paint balling) so it wasn't 'extreem' to me. However I find someone playing video games for 5 hours a day to be fanatical. See where being open minded comes in here?

There are things out there we haven't experienced/seen before. That doesn't make them wrong or bad.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Robert

You just generalized me and sterotyped me into your view of a Christian. Remember it was Christians who founded this nation (Canada and America) and allowed freedom of religion. Don't sugguest for a moment they were not open minded. Christians are some of the most open minded and tollerate of people out there. You on the other hand have a problem with all organized religion, and in previous posts were calling for the removal of churchs for tax free statuses.

Has God ever forced his views onto you? I have never forced my views or preached to someone for the sake of it. God doesn't yell at you to get your attention he waits calmly whispering and hopes you will take up a conversation.

I think you need to be very careful of the use of the terms fanatical that you describe things that are 'extreem' or 'unusual'. I didnt see anything in that video I hadn't seen before (minus the kids with camo paint - though I've seen it paint balling) so it wasn't 'extreem' to me. However I find someone playing video games for 5 hours a day to be fanatical. See where being open minded comes in here?

There are things out there we haven't experienced/seen before. That doesn't make them wrong or bad.

Actually I think the founding fathers were simply able to suspend their beliefs long enough to do what was right for everyone, not just themselves. But then again they were a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay taxes. My, how times have changed. And you're right...there are many christians who are not judgemental and intollerant. Then again in that short trailer a woman dumps everyone in the world into 2 categories...believers and non-believers. And yeah, I do believe that many churches should pay taxes because many of them essentially sell a product. If you're church can seat more people than a football stadium, you obviously don't need any help with money.

Of course god doesn't yell at me. He doesn't yell at anyone. In fact, I would assume that if god exists in the way that you believe he does, he doesn't have time to talk to anyone. You talk to him, but whether or not anyone's listening is open for conjecture. Seems to me like that's a long wait for a train that doesn't come.

The clip I posted is just a trailer...I don't think I could post the whole movie (and would you really sit here for an hour and a half watching it? Over on youtube, however, I think someone cut the film in it's entirety up into several pieces. And you don't think that young children screaming "righteous judges now" is fanactical? Hell...it's fanatical on more than one level. It's not extreme or unusual (actually it's both), but it easily falls under the term "fanaticism".

And you're right...things aren't wrong because they're new and different. In this these things are wrong by virtue of the fact that they are morally repugnant and undertaken in the guise of belief.

[AzCivic]

fanatic Christians...they're such a problem in today's world. AAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!

why can't some of you rant on and on about the atrocities of some religion OTHER than freakin Christianity?

How about you get your pink panties in a bunch about those that want to KILL YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RELIGION MAY BE! nah, just do what you always do, not much of anything I guess.

"oh no Christians are baaaaaaaad!!!!!! I'm scared that I might be held accountable for my actions, fuck religion! God doesn't have the time for this and that, I know everything!!!"