.:HSTuners::

*AzCivic* · 10-09-2006, 11:35 PM

so no proof that the statement "Congress recently handed Bush the power to identify American citizens as "unlawful enemy combatants"

is actually true?

GT40FIED · 10-10-2006, 04:02 AM

Huh? What? I've been gone all day. Maybe I'll look into it when I get bored. Then again, I really don't see how the line you posted necessarily excludes US citizens. There really doesn't need to be anything about US citizens specifically written because, as the US government, they have a great deal of control over the citizens. However, arresting and detaining a foreign national is a lot trickier since there are special ways of dealing with foreign criminals (generally through some sort of consulate). Putting specific wording into a bill would eliminate that hassle.

*AzCivic* · 10-10-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Huh? What? I've been gone all day. Maybe I'll look into it when I get bored. Then again, I really don't see how the line you posted necessarily excludes US citizens. There really doesn't need to be anything about US citizens specifically written because, as the US government, they have a great deal of control over the citizens.

How does it not exclude US citizens? It's pretty simple, if you're a US citizen you are not an alien. It states in plain english who is subject to the Act.

So how does the gov't "have a great deal of control over the citizens"? What does that even mean?

GT40FIED · 10-10-2006, 04:54 PM

What I'm saying is that just because there is a provision specifying foreign nationals, that doesn't mean it excludes US citizens. I guess I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.

As for the kind of control government has over citizen's, it's pretty far reaching. I mean...the stage was obviously set for a bill like this by the PATRIOT Act which repealed quite a few freedoms at the government's discretion. I mean you already had FISA for most of this shit...it was established a long time ago. Why go around them unless you wanted to cut out the middle man and do away with having to go in front of a court?

10-10-2006, 04:02 AM	#2
GT40FIED Best...mod...ever Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: At the end of the longest line Age: 43 Posts: 7,451	Huh? What? I've been gone all day. Maybe I'll look into it when I get bored. Then again, I really don't see how the line you posted necessarily excludes US citizens. There really doesn't need to be anything about US citizens specifically written because, as the US government, they have a great deal of control over the citizens. However, arresting and detaining a foreign national is a lot trickier since there are special ways of dealing with foreign criminals (generally through some sort of consulate). Putting specific wording into a bill would eliminate that hassle. __________________ 1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika

10-10-2006, 04:54 PM	#4
GT40FIED Best...mod...ever Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: At the end of the longest line Age: 43 Posts: 7,451	What I'm saying is that just because there is a provision specifying foreign nationals, that doesn't mean it excludes US citizens. I guess I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. As for the kind of control government has over citizen's, it's pretty far reaching. I mean...the stage was obviously set for a bill like this by the PATRIOT Act which repealed quite a few freedoms at the government's discretion. I mean you already had FISA for most of this shit...it was established a long time ago. Why go around them unless you wanted to cut out the middle man and do away with having to go in front of a court? __________________ 1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika

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10-09-2006, 11:35 PM	#1
AzCivic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Az Age: 44 Posts: 3,804	so no proof that the statement "Congress recently handed Bush the power to identify American citizens as "unlawful enemy combatants" is actually true?