bush wants pakistan now

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by ChrisCantSkate

yeah i read that and thought.. hmm leak a document saying we're less safe which means we can to try harder to make us safe...

honestly i dont think anything has changed at all, for better or worse. remeber in the long run everything ends up leveling out, being equal, not really changing.

chris you don't think that maybe we are a hell of a lot less safer due to the fact we pissed up the people who already hated us to begin with?
recruiters of the terrorist organizations are using this jihad on america and the war as a main way or recruiting new extremists. i mean just about it.I mean maybe I'm wrong but this is like a black man burning a KKK members Ford, you can expect nothing but a worse backlash.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally Posted by CD5Passion

chris you don't think that maybe we are a hell of a lot less safer due to the fact we pissed up the people who already hated us to begin with?
recruiters of the terrorist organizations are using this jihad on america and the war as a main way or recruiting new extremists. i mean just about it.I mean maybe I'm wrong but this is like a black man burning a KKK members Ford, you can expect nothing but a worse backlash.

well the fact they were already pissed off enough to want to attack us but unable to really mount an offence then, and now they are just as pissed, and still unable to mount an offence..... like i said man, in the long run things dont really change. it takes ALOT more than 5, 10, even 15 years of complete change, which has to be done on both sides of the ball, for you to see any kind of stable effects. so no, i dont really feel that we are any safer or more in harms way than say 5 years ago. think what happened 5 years ago before bush had a chance to "fuck everything up" when the terrorists were basically retaliating to something clinton, bush senior, regan, etc. have been doing over there over the past 30 years. to think bush jr. single handedly made them more pissed at us is just really stretching to hate someone.

to try and debate how safe we are we must define safe by actions or intentions.. both of which i dont think has changed at all, MAYBE shifted a little, but changed in the overall picture... i think not.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ChrisCantSkate

well the fact they were already pissed off enough to want to attack us but unable to really mount an offence then, and now they are just as pissed, and still unable to mount an offence..... like i said man, in the long run things dont really change. it takes ALOT more than 5, 10, even 15 years of complete change, which has to be done on both sides of the ball, for you to see any kind of stable effects. so no, i dont really feel that we are any safer or more in harms way than say 5 years ago. think what happened 5 years ago before bush had a chance to "fuck everything up" when the terrorists were basically retaliating to something clinton, bush senior, regan, etc. have been doing over there over the past 30 years. to think bush jr. single handedly made them more pissed at us is just really stretching to hate someone.

to try and debate how safe we are we must define safe by actions or intentions.. both of which i dont think has changed at all, MAYBE shifted a little, but changed in the overall picture... i think not.

I think this answers the question CD5passion raised. Chris you took the words out of my mouth.

[GT40FIED]

Well I think Chris has a point about King Bush II not being totally responsible and bringing the actions of Clinton, King Bush I, and Reagan into the picture. But then again, only Bush II actively provoked terrorists and muslims on TV. For instance, a statement like "you're either with us or with the terrorists" is the kind of stupid I can't even begin to comprehend. It was at that point that even moderate muslims all over the world went "well...we're not with you, so...". Provocation and ultimatums don't make for safer environments. They're essentially fighting words and Bush has spent enough time in Mexico Jr. (Texas) to know a thing or two about fighting words. The solution is simple...if you want to stop people from having a desire to attack you, stop pissing them off intentionally (yeah...I'm talking to you Pope Benedict).