Headers Are For Your Head --- Not The Car's !!!

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by 2000Pimpinex
Dc 4-2-1 1 piece... Dc 4-2-1 2 piece... Or I could go with 4-1 for the high end power but I need low and mid so I am going with the 4-2-1. Give me some ideas...

It's a fact, bro --- the only thing you 'feel' in ANY car is torque. Torque is all that matters. HP, an imaginary number, is mathematically derived from torque, a real number. So, if a mod produces more torque, you will get more power. If not, it won't. This applies to all power mods.

What you will actually get is what they call "The Placebo Effect." This is what you will undoubtedly 'feel'. It's like when you wash your car or change your oil and you 'feel' like it goes faster. It doesn't --- it's all in your mind...

Your beliefs and hopes will be, that by spending your hard earned money on a 4-into-whatever header, combined with suggestibility and social cueing from other users on this site, you will get a significant [and real] effect. Sorry! OE Honda headers work pretty damn good...

You'll think you're getting more power on the low-end, mid-range or high-end, depending on what you talk yourself into. Then you won't be sure. Then you'll search the net looking for reinforcement that you can 'feel' a difference. You'll reject the opinions of ppl that say they don't 'feel' any difference, and heed the ones that say they do...

If you tell someone a $400 fuel rail/FPR combo won't do sh!t for them, here come the flames. If you tell them front strut tower bars don't work, you'll get a dozen responses from 'placebo-dazed' monkeys saying they do. I'm sure the same thing will happen in this post.

The truth of the matter is, you'll feel more power even though there actually isn't any.

I can guarantee you, you'll tell all your friends it gave you an additional 10-HP and point them to some online article that proves it. You will tell a big difference in the low-end, mid-range or high-end, depending on what mood you happen to be in. And, you'll flame me for telling the truth. That's what everybody else does...

[Accord Man]

Thanks for expressing your view on the matter..

But, hereafter please word your posts in a calmer mannered way.
This is a discussion board, dont try to turn it in to an argument board.

[Racing Rice]

I think for the most part your right... All horsepower is, is a Theoretical figure calculated from Torque itself..We spend to much time worrying about how much HP we are gaining and not paying enough attention to the torque curve.

Originally posted by Accord Man
please word your posts in a calmer mannered way.
This is a discussion board, dont try to turn it in to an argument board.

I don't think he was trying to be argumentative, just trying to be as informative as he could to help the others understand.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by Racing Rice
I think for the most part your right... All horsepower is, is a Theoretical figure calculated from Torque itself..We spend to much time worrying about how much HP we are gaining and not paying enough attention to the torque curve.

Agreed! HP has its place as a quick reference for basis-of-comparison shopping in showrooms, and so forth, but is largely meaningless in real life.

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe
Agreed! HP has its place as a quick reference for basis-of-comparison shopping in showrooms, and so forth, but is largely meaningless in real life.

The bad part about it is, its kinda misleading to those who dont know.. One thinks they are going to have this major power added to their cars when they buy these parts, but most people dont realize how much power they are loosing (at certain/most RPMs) by adding these products.

Tuning a car is like putting a puzzle together if all the parts fit/work together then you will have something nice. If you have parts that dont fit/work together then you have something that isnt worth the first penny you have spent on it.

[thermal]

ha ha ha ha....ya all don't know BDC? that's normal BDC tone.

my comment on this matter:
to gain power, get a turbo set-up. tune it and drive it. no bolt-ons can ever come close to the satisfaction that'll give you. i've been there, the I/H/E stage. it was not worth $1000 for the 5hp and no torque that i gained. my dyno chart can prove it. it pissed me off so bad that i ripped that chart into pieces...........

[2000Pimpinex]

BDC and thermal-both of you have great points. Because of posts and replies like this people will start to realize this and stop wasting money on boltons when what they really want is FI. I am the same way, I spend 200 something dollars for a CAI and when I get my turbo (hopefully spring of next year), I have to get rid of it. That money could have gone to something else that would benefit from the turbo.

[thermal]

Originally posted by 2000Pimpinex
BDC and thermal-both of you have great points. Because of posts and replies like this people will start to realize this and stop wasting money on boltons when what they really want is FI. I am the same way, I spend 200 something dollars for a CAI and when I get my turbo (hopefully spring of next year), I have to get rid of it. That money could have gone to something else that would benefit from the turbo.

thanks pimpin. that means alot coming from you bro......

[2ndGenTeg]

I disagree. While minimal, a header will give you power a bump in output. Dynos aren't influenced by magazine articles, friends, or the Placebo affect, and dynos say headers increase output. Stock exhaust manifolds are great, but there's no way they flow as well as a performance header.

Once again- gains are minimal, and nothing you would ever "feel." I don't think anyone here is delusional enough to think that by adding I/H/E they'll be able to outrun anything they couldn't outrun before- besides their own car- stock.

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by 2000Pimpinex
BDC and thermal-both of you have great points. Because of posts and replies like this people will start to realize this and stop wasting money on boltons when what they really want is FI. I am the same way, I spend 200 something dollars for a CAI and when I get my turbo (hopefully spring of next year), I have to get rid of it. That money could have gone to something else that would benefit from the turbo.

These are my feelings exactly.. I wish I would have know 2 1/2 years ago what I know now.. My car would be completely different.

I just dont think that I/H/E are worth the money if thats all your going to do to them. You may benefit more from them if you are building up internals and stuff like that. But if you do it because you think these will make give you an noticable increase it wont really. My suggestion is also, if you want real performance save your money for a turbo..

Im not saying turbo is the only thing you should do, but I just think its the easiest and cheapest (depending on the extent) way to get the most power for your buck.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Almost every performance freak in America, somehow, from birth, believes headers make a car go faster. Perhaps this is because the 'car geek' gene gets passed down from one generation to another.

If YOU believe headers will make your car go faster, you probably were exposed to V-8 engines. Everyone knows V-8's need headers to make horsepower...

With Honda engines, however, the factory engineers did a masterful job in coming up with an exhaust manifold that delivers excellent power and torque throughout the powerband. This is NOT to say there is no room for improvement --- it's just that the improvement is NOT drastic and 'neck-snapping' as header manufacturers [and your friends] want you to believe.

To understand how a header works, you should know the primary function of the exhaust manifold. The practical theory is both simple AND complex.

Exhaust velocity is the key to making horsepower. If you've read any of my posts, this sounds familiar. Velocity is also the key to performance induction systems. Exhausts systems are merely the case of getting 'bad' air out, instead of getting 'good' air in.

There are two common Honda header design types --- four-tube and Tri-Y. The two designs share benefits, but each is engineered to deliver power for different HP useages.

OE Honda exhaust manifolds are a well-engineered compromise between four-tube and Tri-Y headers, which is why MANY CiViC builders 'feel' little or NO difference when after header is installed. You will only get a 'placebo effect'.

I'm sorry if this news disappoints you...

Sure, aftermarket headers offer the APPEARANCE and TONE of performance, but they won't deliver the massive HP gains ppl expect or what the manufacturers advertise. It's just another hollow promise...

[2ndGenTeg]

I'm well aware that the effect is not drastic, or even anything you can feel while driving the car. I'm simply saying that the gains are there- however minimal, and dynos don't lie. And to say that headers produce no power whatsoever is simply untrue.

And for the record- I've never had interest or for that matter know a damn thing about domestic muscle, big displacement engines, etc. Shit, I don't even know what a pushrod engine is.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by 2ndGenTeg
I'm well aware that the effect is not drastic, or even anything you can feel while driving the car.... And for the record- I've never had interest or for that matter know a damn thing about domestic muscle, big displacement engines, etc. Shit, I don't even know what a pushrod engine is.

WoW! Take a deep breath, bro... :o

Below are statistics from a test conducted at Dynamic Autosports on a Dynojet Model 248C Chassis Dyno. The story can be found in the October 99' Issue of Sport Compact Car.

• 
  Average Power Gain 4700 - 7800 RPM
  
• DC Sports 4-1 Race 7.0
• DC Sports 2 piece 2.7
• Air Mass 1.9
• Comptech 1.6
• Greddy 1.5
• Neuspeed 1.3
• RS*R 1.0
• Mugen 0.1
• Pacesetter -0.6
  
  Average Power Gain 2300 - 5000 RPM
  
• Pace Setter 1.5
• DC Sports 2 piece 1.2
• DC Sports 4-1 race 1.0
• Greddy 0.7
• Air Mass 0.5
• RS*R 0.4
• Comptech 0.3
• Neuspeed 0.1
• Mugen -1.1

Dyno numbers are just numbers. They do not represent real world driving performance. Headers will act quite different with various intakes and exhaust systems and buyers should take this into consideration. Many combinations will produce worse results than the stock CiViC header. It's a crap shoot!

You know, it doesn't cost Honda any less money to make a power-robbing restrictive header than a non-restrictive one. In your "opinion", why would Honda do this --- to piss-off its loyal and dedicated customer-base? Or, are Honda engineers just stupid???

As you can plainly see above, there are actually some negative numbers, or power losses. Many others show essentially zero sum gain. I read a 'shoot-out' last year where the Pacesetter a.k.a. Pacesh!tter exhausts recorded a -1.9 HP, or 2% loss under the stock header. And, look at that damn Mugen, one of the most expensive ones in the test...

Threads like this will hopefully increase awareness of our sport, while sending a message to aftermarket manufacturers that consumers do have a voice. Feedback from other users will assist manufacturers in modifying and designing performance parts that work at least as good as the OE Honda header.

Don't get sucked into marketing hype, bro. It hurts our cause and fattens the wallets of scoundrels...

I don't know if Honda manifolds are the greatest thig to exist... I mean you're tellin me that the JDM 4-1 ITR header that comes STOCK on the B18C5 engine is ineffective??? I would find that hard to believe... While I do agree that the HP/TQ gains claimed by all companies are/appear to be fictious we have to keep in mind that they are testing the product on a HIGHLY mod engine. Which most of us don't have. If I had the time now I could post you a chart showing that a N/A motor tuned properly can and does take use of the 4-1 set up. Also I do agree with the real world statements but at the same time I vary rarely stay below 4000 rpm, I usually drive around at about 55-6000 and put the throttle at 100% whenever possible. It's just the way I drive and there aren't many people that do that... I live mainly at the mid to high rpm level cause that's what Honda has designed my engine to do... well them and JUN. Also you might want to note that JUN has done extensive real world testing and they have chart upon chart upon chart of documentation about headers,cams,intakes...etc.. Toda is the same. I am just interjecting my point cause this is turning out to be a big ad for FI and there are those of us that would/can spend the cash to be N/A and fast. Maybe not as fast as FI but fast enough to make us happy. You're all probably going to talk shit and so on but that's how it is. No I'm not a ricer and yes I do race. Infact I am assisting with development on some products for SC's in the future.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by advanracing62
I don't know if Honda manifolds are the greatest thig to exist... I mean you're tellin me that the JDM 4-1 ITR header that comes STOCK on the B18C5 engine is ineffective??? I would find that hard to believe...

LOL! Okay, kiddies. Here's another lesson for you...

What advanracing62 is attempting to do doing here is one of the oldest tricks in the book. It's called 'The Strawman Attack.'

The Strawman attack is the act of distorting your opponent's argument so that you may attack the distorted, weakened version. Quite literally, it is the act of building up a strawman and then knocking it down, because a strawman is easier to knock down than your true opponent.

In this case, advanracing62 tries to claim that I am saying a JDM 4-1 ITR header is ineffective. I am not saying that, and I have never said that.

I have said:

Originanally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe
With Honda engines... the factory engineers did a masterful job in coming up with an exhaust manifold that delivers excellent power and torque throughout the powerband. This is NOT to say there is no room for improvement --- it's just that the improvement is NOT drastic and 'neck-snapping' as header manufacturers [and your friends] want you to believe.

However, this is the basic nature of the Strawman Attack --- distort "DC Sports 4-2-1" to "Honda Japanese Domestic Market 4-1 ITR " and then you suddenly have a convenient strawman, which you can easily knock down for a cheap declaration of victory.

I also said:

Originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe
If you tell someone a $400 fuel rail/FPR combo won't do sh!t for them, here come the flames. If you tell them front strut tower bars don't work, you'll get a dozen responses from 'placebo-dazed' monkeys saying they do. I'm sure the same thing will happen in this post.

... and, that's what is happening now.

Sorry to beat-up on you, bro, but you can save the grade-school debating tactics for your girlfriend. They don't work on me and I'll call you on them every time!!!

[2ndGenTeg]

The gains are there, however minimal. Proof that they do indeed flow better than stock.

As for the Mugen, it simply isn't designed to make power with mere bolt ons, much less a stock setup. It's designed for a high compression, aggressive camshaft setup. The same is true of the Spoon, Toda, etc. They will show a drop in performance up until about 6500 RPM. This may sound high, but keep in mind that they're designed to work for seriously built all motor setups, where a 9500+ RPM redline is fairly common. I'd like to see the dyno in that case of the stock manifold (or the DC, RS*R, Airmass, etc) vs. the Mugen, Spoon, Toda, or even the JDM ITR header.

I wasn't snapping at you before- actually, I was agreeing with you- anybody with an intake and exhaust who says he can feel the difference after installing his header is delusional. However, with any serious setup, removing bottlenecks is key.

And I was just saying- I don't know dick about domestics.

Very good BDC.... you understood exactly what I was attempting to do. It has come to my attention on these boards that there must be someone who tries to be the other side of the coin. People come on here and read the posts and then say... "That guy's full of shit." However I have found that if there is a reasonable arguement on the thread that people will read it and then say... "Seems logical to me." Now, we can see that there is a difference in opinon here. Which one is better for our cause?? And no it's not a grade school tatic, I was never in debate, I thought it was lame. DC headers are shit and they always will be... any aftermarket header is shit. There are tons of tests to prove that.. However the results you see in these lame rags such as SCC, SS, IT, Turbo and the like are often times not exact due to discrepancies in testing procedures. It is extremely hard to get the same testing scenario all the time. I have yet to read anything in those turds that proved useful. Never the less very good on my little problematic comment!!!

So I guess it is a good thing I was planning on getting the JDM ITR 4-1 header?

Current mods:

b16a2 swap
Hondata reprogrammed p28 w/p30 program, OBD1 conversion, and stage 3 hardware.
Tanabe Racing Medallion Catback.
Catco high flow cat(soon to be a flex pipe in place)
Energy suspension engine mount inserts for 99 Si

Coming, as soon as I get a hold of the guy.

CTR intake and exhuast cams
CTR pistons, standard bore

This coming Spring
Adjustable Cam Gears
VAFC or upgrade to Hondata stage 4
FPR
Wideband O2 dyno tuning
maybe more stuff.........

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by HXMan
So I guess it is a good thing I was planning on getting the JDM ITR 4-1 header?

Well, they say 5-8 HP gain with a Honda OEM JDM header. Personally, I don't get it. Maybe someone can fill me in on what I'm missing here.

The OEM header works fine. Exhaust restriction isn't all that important in the larger view anyway. Intake restriction is what kills power the most. That why they put butterfly valves on the throttle body instead of the exhaust manifold.

And, assuming you are going for looks, this doesn't do much for me. How about you???



Imagine them discolored and covered with rust...

Function over form. I am more of the sleeper type...if a header looks good or not doesn't really matter to me, what matters is performance and price. Oh, and that JDM header looks much better then what the b16 has stock.

5-8 hp maybe true....but when we are talking about the "larger view" exhuast restriction and exhuast tuning is VERY important. I am not trying to sound like I am trying to teach you something, but we have to think an engine as a system. If we increase air intake with higher lift and duration cams, larger TB, P&P head, and increase fuel flow, we need a more efficient way to get that stuff out. A good tuned header will perform this function...a good header should "tune" the exhuast pulses, creating negative pressure, and thus scavenging the cylinder.

Like I said if you get air in, you have to get air out. If you have ever seen a stock USDM Si header you would definitly want to replace it. It isn't really a header, it is more like what people would call an exhuast manifold.

The OEM header works fine. Exhaust restriction isn't all that important in the larger view anyway. Intake restriction is what kills power the most. That why they put butterfly valves on the throttle body instead of the exhaust manifold.

I am kinda wondering what you are talking about here???

Well, they say 5-8 HP gain with a Honda OEM JDM header. Personally, I don't get it. Maybe someone can fill me in on what I'm missing here.

Now are you saying this is a low figure, or it just shows that the JDM header is not worth it?

I don't want to get argumenative, but to me, what you posted sounded that way.

[2ndGenTeg]

Great... now you're gonna go and get him started again...

J/K BDC.

Great... now you're gonna go and get him started again...

Did I start something???!!!

[2000Pimpinex]

Your not going to start nuttin. BlackDueceCoupe can debate with the best of em and I know he loves it. It gives him something to do, a challenge of sorts.

[Addict]

Didn't I see this "pissing" contest somewhere else?

Not to disrespect you debating ability and your very obvious education, but what exactly do you believe in BDC? You seem to state that nothing other than the ICEMAN intake(see debate about AIR INTAKES ) and I believe you "felt" a difference when changing to different transmission fluid(see that "other" board). I'm a bit confused here.

I wanted performance, looks and sound and went the Tenzo R axle-back route. Here are some pics

(quoted from Duel Exhaust yes I know its spelled wrong)

Did you "feel" anything on your axle back exhaust? I doubt you did. But you still got it, right? Hmm.

No the headers may not make much of a difference unless they are matched with the right setup. I/H/E alone will not mot make a tremendous difference. But they ARE a crucial part. Along with better intake manifolds, larger throttle bodies, etc. Its a piece by piece endeavor. No single piece of the puzzle will yield amazing results.

Now I don't doubt that you'll play your wit and attempt to comeback with some long winded speel about my post. Like I said, I don't doubt your debating skills.

ok im sure everyone knows this but its not in the thread so ill say it anyways

Hp = (Torque x RPM)/5252

No theres not going to be a noticeable difference with only a header but there will be a measurable difference...However the more is already done to the engine the larger effect it will have.

What does it matter if an aftermarket one increases hp up higher and reduces it lower...all mods do this thats why racing engines have no power down low, thats why VTEC is such an advantage as its still drivable at low revs.

Half the reason for getting one is not for the performance anyway, its for the noise.

Honda could put better headers on fromt he factory but there will be very little benefit for them, it would give them very little extra power and it would lose power at low revs and become alot louder...this is not what the average consumer wants, especially on somthing like a DX or EX where they were never designed for performance.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by HXMan
... I am not trying to sound like I am trying to teach you something, but we have to think an engine as a system... Like I said if you get air in, you have to get air out...

No, that's fine, HXMan. Teach me, please. First of all, given your assertion that "if you get air in, you have to get air out", how can a turbo header possibly work???

Turbo Magazine
...We are currently configuring a front-mount intercooler setup and should be able to turn the wick up with more efficient cooling. JWT also reports that 18.5 to 20 psi may be the most we can expect out of the turbo as the turbine side is creating 42 psi of [exhaust - bdc] backpressure at these levels...

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by Civic_Addict
Not to disrespect you debating ability and your very obvious education, but what exactly do you believe in BDC?

You need to practice your reading comprehension, bro...

Originally posted by BDC
...OE Honda headers work pretty damn good... With Honda engines... the factory engineers did a masterful job in coming up with an exhaust manifold that delivers excellent power and torque throughout the powerband. This is NOT to say there is no room for improvement --- it's just that the improvement is NOT drastic and 'neck-snapping' as header manufacturers [and your friends] want you to believe...

...Exhaust velocity is the key to making horsepower. If you've read any of my posts, this sounds familiar. Velocity is also the key to performance induction systems...

...OE Honda exhaust manifolds are a well-engineered compromise between four-tube and Tri-Y headers, which is why MANY CiViC builders 'feel' little or NO difference after a header is installed... Sure, aftermarket headers offer the APPEARANCE and TONE of performance, but they won't deliver the massive HP gains ppl expect or what the manufacturers advertise... You know, it doesn't cost Honda any less money to make a power-robbing restrictive header than a non-restrictive one...

...Threads like this will hopefully increase awareness of our sport, while sending a message to aftermarket manufacturers that consumers do have a voice. Feedback from other users will assist manufacturers in modifying and designing performance parts that work at least as good as the OE Honda header.

Don't get sucked into marketing hype, bro. It hurts our cause and fattens the wallets of scoundrels...

Does this make it any easier for you to understand??? In other words, I believe OE Honda exhaust manifolds are the best choice for most ppl, and aftermarket headers are nothing but hype.

I don't know how I can put it any simpler than than that.... :(

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by dejoux
ok im sure everyone knows this but its not in the thread so ill say it anyways

Hp = (Torque x RPM)/5252

LOL!!! You're wrong about that, bro. Redefined:

• HP=(Torque x RPM)/5252
  
  is the same as saying
  
  HP=Torque@5252 RPM

In other words, Torque ALWAYS equals HP at 5252 RPM. I have quarreled with boneheads over this fact for years. Look at ANY dyno chart. I can guarantee you that almost nobody knows anything about Torque and/or HP except that more is better...

[Addict]

Originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe
No, that's fine, HXMan. Teach me, please. First of all, given your assertion that "if you get air in, you have to get air out", how can a turbo header possibly work???

Turbo "headers" are not designed with the idea of being an efficent means of exhaust gas removal. The idea is for them to direct the exhaust gases to the turbo, in turn spooling up the turbo.

...OE Honda exhaust manifolds are a well-engineered compromise between four-tube and Tri-Y headers, which is why MANY CiViC builders 'feel' little or NO difference when after header is installed... Sure, aftermarket headers offer the APPEARANCE and TONE of performance, but they won't deliver the massive HP gains ppl expect or what the manufacturers advertise...

Its exactly that a compromise. The idea with aftermarket headers is get one that will closer match the needs of the driver. DC Sports, Kamikaze, and others use "generic"(no I'm not knocking their quality) diameters and tube sizes. The best way in my opinion is have the headers customer tuned/made for your particular application. That will help with the velocity more so than off the shelf versions. But realistically most of us can't afford custom headers. Places like Kooks can custom make headers for about any application. I'm sure there are others, I just haven't looked all that hard for them.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by Civic_Addict
Turbo "headers" are not designed with the idea of being an efficent means of exhaust gas removal. The idea is for them to direct the exhaust gases to the turbo, in turn spooling up the turbo...

• 1) Sounds like a dictionary definition of compromise to me.
  
  2) The thought of this compromise doesn't seem to bother anyone. Why should the OE Honda exhaust bother them? False perceptions? Misinformation? Hype? Social cueing? Or is it simply a case of willful ignorance???
  
  3) 40+ PSI of backpressure in the exhaust system doesn't seem to have much effect on turbo performance. In light of this fact, why do you suppose ppl insist on fooling themselves, and their friends, into thinking this is a key issue???

[Addict]

Well considering the fact that the power generated by the turbo well out weighs the possible negative effects, no one is bothered. In a NA application or supercharger application one would be concerned. Or at least a well educated person would be concerned.

I already spoke my peace, with headers, for the minimal gains, it may not be worth it, but if you have 300$ and want a fun project that may net you 3hp and some tq I say go for it. Most people can't afford 4-7000k for a turbo setup, so it is a good way to do something. What else will get you HP for 300? YOu tell me?

[Addict]

Originally posted by Dezoris
I already spoke my peace, with headers, for the minimal gains, it may not be worth it, but if you have 300$ and want a fun project that may net you 3hp and some tq I say go for it. Most people can't afford 4-7000k for a turbo setup, so it is a good way to do something. What else will get you HP for 300? YOu tell me?

$175 more and you can strap on some nitrous.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by Civic_Addict
Well considering the fact that the power generated by the turbo well out weighs the possible negative effects, no one is bothered. In a NA application or supercharger application one would be concerned [with backpressure]. Or at least a well educated person would be concerned.

This is fairly typical of posts I have read seeking help after doing a header install. Generally, these posts fall into two categories --- the engine doesn't run right, or the 'check engine' light stays on all the time.

Does this sound familiar???

Originally posted by Shamus
Problems due to a lack of back pressure?

I still have the stock cat in place with the IHE and the problem I am trying to describe seems to have gotten a little worse over the summer.

Between the ranges of 2-3.5K, my car sometimes "sputters" when I step on the gas or when I am just starting off the line. It almost feels like vapor lock would on a carb'd. engine sometimes.

It was first suggested that it may be due to a lack of backpressure which makes total sense to me. If that is that case, what is the next step to correct the sputtering. I am guessing that because I have impoved the breathing, I now need to attack the fuel delivery?

The fuel rail and throttle body are still stock.

Thanks,
j.

Originally posted by Civic_Addict
had the same problem after i installed my headers (i already
have an exhaust and intake at that time). and whenever i'm
going off the line, at some point in the rpm my car feels like
it's having an asthma attack. since i'm still a neophyte at that
time (4 yrs. ago), i didn't want to mess with the fuel system
or whatever. i just left it at that...

Originally posted by Guess Who???
This is a good question, I have the similar problem, but, temperatures effect it. I think much of it is backpressure...

[Addict]

The third quote down is not mine BDC. Just though you might want to correct that one... And hopefully the Guess Who??? wasn't referring to me either.....

[Addict]

Originally posted by BlackDeuceCoupe
This is fairly typical of posts I have read seeking help after doing a header install. Generally, these posts fall into two categories --- the engine doesn't run right, or the 'check engine' light stays on all the time.

Does this sound familiar???

Yeah. It sounds like poor tuning. People need to realize that they need to choose components based on perfomance rather than brands. You need to "match" your components. Look at all the stats and see what will fit into your entire plan.

Guess who? It is magic, True my backpressure problem started long before the header, I believe the header made it worse. Since we are cutting and pasting

Posted by Dezoris

This is a good question, I have the similar problem, but, temperatures effect it. I think much of it is backpressure.
I think also it could be you just need your throttle body cleaned, and have your fuel system flushed with a machine. check your plugs. Have your cap and rotor changed.
Basically the 30k mainatinence, helped me. Also your clucth may be worn and the flywheel may be warped slightly which can cause this too.
Any mechanic will blame your mods first as we do. How big is your exaust on the WS?

In response to this Question

Originally posted by Shamus
I still have the stock cat in place with the IHE and the problem I am trying to describe seems to have gotten a little worse over the summer.

Between the ranges of 2-3.5K, my car sometimes "sputters" when I step on the gas or when I am just starting off the line. It almost feels like vapor lock would on a carb'd. engine sometimes.

It was first suggested that it may be due to a lack of backpressure which makes total sense to me. If that is that case, what is the next step to correct the sputtering. I am guessing that because I have impoved the breathing, I now need to attack the fuel delivery?

The fuel rail and throttle body are still stock.

Thanks,
j.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally posted by Civic_Addict
...what exactly do you believe in BDC?... I'm a bit confused here... Did you "feel" anything on your axle back exhaust? I doubt you did. But you still got it, right? Hmm.

Let's go back to this snipe for a minute.

While I don't particularly care for some of the marketing practices at Honda, I believe their engineers are quite good. Some ppl, however, think they know more than Honda engineers [which is laughable] and the aftermarket pimps prey on their ego and stupidity.

Personally, I like the stock airbox in my HX. It has a nice design. I believe it's practically and functionally the same [if not identical] to the one Honda uses on the Si. The air filter, itself, was a different matter. I believe K&N makes the best air filters, albeit more expensive and more time consuming to maintain correctly.

I also believe that the OE Honda header is just fine for most ppl. All they are doing is asking for trouble when they replace them with Brand-X, and they usually get it.

I freely admit the reason I switched my OE exhaust to a Tenzo R Venturi was for LOOKS and SOUND. I wish others would be as forth-coming and truthful about their header decision. I was also looking for WEIGHT reduction and got it. I achieved all these things for a little more than 200 bones.

I think this picture says it all:



After going through a 'revving on everybody' period, my gas mileage returned to normal [got 51 MPG this week], and it hasn't caused one problem. I'm sure I could copy-n-paste 'reams' of problems that ppl have had with header installations, but you've seen them too.

Gotta run... continuing...

Man, you are all on crack. I know I felt a difference!

I mean, they said I would get a 10-15hp gain from my Header.

Here look at how powerful my car is.

Motor 1997 H22A4 - 200hp
CAI +10hp
header +10hp
exhaust +10hp
high flow cat +5hp
fuel rail +5hp
FPR +3hp
ignition +15hp
pulleys +5hp
camgears +10hp
VAFC +10hp

That is equal to 283hp! Add my 75 shot of nitrous and I got 358hp! It has to be true! That is high boost range right there. I got a 75% hp gain from bolt-ons!

Actually, the only thing I could "feel" was my wallet getting lighter!