talon tsi vs. prelude vtec

[ChrisCantSkate]

my friend owns a 95 talon tsi, intake 3" custom cat back with apex'i dunk turbo muffler on it. and a upper IC pipe with greddy type-r BOV he says he spikes 18psi. i raced him a few weeks ago, got a shitty launch and lost. so today on the way home from school i see him. we do a few turns, get to a open road, hit the stop light, and then green we go. i got a tiny jump at the light, but i saw him creeping up, we shift to 2nd and i pull a bit, i held a tiny lead upto about 80 mph, with me pulling slightly then him pulling almost to me through out each others power bands. i was afraid i was gonna loose. we're like a dead even match. just happy i beat him finaly.

I dunno Prelude's are fast and everything but I witness the new ones get creamed by TSi's all the time. Ither your friend doesn't know how to drive or he really doesn't have most of the mods he says he does. Is it a stock turbo pushing 18psi? I dunno about that I've never heard of a stock turbo going to 18psi. Oh well nice job.

[ebpda9]

so watcha got under the hood ?

[ChrisCantSkate]

ok 18psi dosnt hold, its more of a spike. i know he's got those mods cause i helped chance the intercooler piping, i can see the intake, and ive got 2.5 piping cat back, and his is definitaly bigger than mine.

my mods are: apex'i v-afc, iceman cold air intake, dc sports 4-2-1 2pc. header, greddy sp cat back exaust, act street clutch with pressure plate, AEM tru time cam gears, double sized all metal radiator, b&m fuel pressure regulator, msd6a ingition, blaster 2 coil

i left out suspension stuff and cosmetic stuff(rims etc.), and the vafc isnt tuned(im running hella rich)

[ChrisCantSkate]

oh, and it was in no way a KILL, i bairly beat him, like i said it was a toss up when his power band was peaking, he was edging up, but when mine was in the high rpms, i was pulling. he just couldnt edge out on me. i also had my 17's to his stocks.

i dont believe it at all. 18psi spike means what? a stock turbo can hold 15psi so if he has it set at 18psi it will hit that and drop back down to 15psi. sorry, theres no way you kept up..and since i just beat the shit out the same car as you with 10psi no way

[ChrisCantSkate]

im sorry i dont wana get into a flame war here, it looks like this is where its heading, you beat a 4th generation prelude. they come with 3 different engines, a 190hp dohc vtec(mine) a 160 hp dohc non vtec and a 135 hp sohc non vtec. my car runs 15 flat stock. i really dont care if you belive me or not. i witnessed the 18 psi "spike" i dont know the correct name for it, but it goes upto 18psi then backs down to 15-16psi. you also have a gs engine with a turbo on it. thats not the same as the tsi or the gst engine. you have a higher CR. how about i throw a 10 psi charger on. fmax got an extra 155hp to the wheels at 9 psi over a prelude with intake headers exaust and wires. no timing or ignition modification. that puts me to around 300 to the wheels on a stock engine. please, dont tell me i lost. i was the one driving. this was not ment to be a haha i beat a dsm, i have MAD respect for the dsm engines. i didnt flame your post about you beating a prleude, because i know all situations are different. and you didnt beat the shit out of the same car as me, thats like if i said thers no way you beat the lude, i just beat a talon. look at my mods im not stock. and for the 3rd time, we were pulling pretty evenly, i didnt walk on him, i didnt kill him, i beat him, i was ahead when we shut off. i dont want to sound like an ass at all, but, please dont flame me for my win.

[ebpda9]

sorry for my ignorance but what in hell DSM means or stands for ? I guess it has something to do with mitshubishi, but i wanna know what dsm stands for. Thanks

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
sorry for my ignorance but what in hell DSM means or stands for ? I guess it has something to do with mitshubishi, but i wanna know what dsm stands for. Thanks

Diamond Star Motors i believe.

Nice kill 4thGenLude, I believe ya Even if it wasn't a "kill", it looks like your car is pretty quick and you have some good driving skills, nice job

[slowEJ6]

nice win do0d

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
im sorry i dont wana get into a flame war here, it looks like this is where its heading, you beat a 4th generation prelude. they come with 3 different engines, a 190hp dohc vtec(mine) a 160 hp dohc non vtec and a 135 hp sohc non vtec. my car runs 15 flat stock. i really dont care if you belive me or not. i witnessed the 18 psi "spike" i dont know the correct name for it, but it goes upto 18psi then backs down to 15-16psi. you also have a gs engine with a turbo on it. thats not the same as the tsi or the gst engine. you have a higher CR. how about i throw a 10 psi charger on. fmax got an extra 155hp to the wheels at 9 psi over a prelude with intake headers exaust and wires. no timing or ignition modification. that puts me to around 300 to the wheels on a stock engine. please, dont tell me i lost. i was the one driving. this was not ment to be a haha i beat a dsm, i have MAD respect for the dsm engines. i didnt flame your post about you beating a prleude, because i know all situations are different. and you didnt beat the shit out of the same car as me, thats like if i said thers no way you beat the lude, i just beat a talon. look at my mods im not stock. and for the 3rd time, we were pulling pretty evenly, i didnt walk on him, i didnt kill him, i beat him, i was ahead when we shut off. i dont want to sound like an ass at all, but, please dont flame me for my win.

if it is true then umm well he cant drive for SHIT....STOCK TSI's run 15 FLAT in 1/4. no way, no way in hell...18psi is 18psi he should be running low 13's. he missed a gear or wasnt racing..if i had 18psi and lost to a VTEC that runs 15 flat (any car for that matter) id either cry or sell my car, probably both. id have to see it to believe it. the reason you didnt flame my kill is because mine is possible. 190hp VTEC vs roughly 250hp.

One more thing...I wouldnt flame if it was possible but unless hes a completely horid driver it shouldnt be possible. And I know both the 420A (my engine) and the 4g63 (his engine). I still say no way. Simple numbers are there. and i never said you "lost" i said no way, i dont believe it.

DSM=Diamond Star Motors, a joined effort between Mitsubishi and Chrysler during the early 90's which lasted up till '98 When the Talon and other Eagle products were killed. A very basic overfew.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by toykilla



if it is true then umm well he cant drive for SHIT....STOCK TSI's run 15 FLAT in 1/4. no way, no way in hell...18psi is 18psi he should be running low 13's. he missed a gear or wasnt racing..if i had 18psi and lost to a VTEC that runs 15 flat (any car for that matter) id either cry or sell my car, probably both. id have to see it to believe it. the reason you didnt flame my kill is because mine is possible. 190hp VTEC vs roughly 250hp.

One more thing...I wouldnt flame if it was possible but unless hes a completely horid driver it shouldnt be possible. And I know both the 420A (my engine) and the 4g63 (his engine). I still say no way. Simple numbers are there. and i never said you "lost" i said no way, i dont believe it.

ok, tsi's run 15 flat.... i run 15 flat..... both stock.... i have way more mods than him, i know that turbos pick up way more hp from mods, but, intake exaust and upper intercooler pipe, to intake headers exuast fpr v-afc clutch, cam gears, shocks springs, double sized radiator, look at the mods, i think the stock times vs the mods also speak for themselves. maybe his boost gauge is off then, because i know what happened, and i won. im sorry you'd sell your car loosing to a h22.

[ChrisCantSkate]

another thing, dont they push 15 psi stock? how would 3 lbs of boost take a whole second or 2 off his time? expcialy since the boost dosnt hold for more that a second.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the DSM's were around ~10 psi (peak) and at about ~8 psi (sustained) of boost. If he IS peaking at anywhere near 18 psi, I hope he has upgraded his fuel pump and injectors, because I don't think that the stock fuel system can support that much of a boost increase.

Mucho props to the Prelude (I wanted to buy one originally, but DAMN those Honda resale values!), but I don't see how it would hang with a DSM at 18 psi. Good job, though!

[ChrisCantSkate]

hrm, this might be the problem, he said the boost gauge read 15 psi at stock. then when he got the upper intercooler pipe and BOV he could get it upto a breif 18psi. i'll have to do some research, maybe the gauge is off

[Accord Man]

Good job 4thGenlude!!

Keep on spankin with that h22!

the talon tsi just like the eclipse gs-t run like 5psi stock. Where did you get 15psi. Also, the fuel system on a talon/eclipse turbo is good enough to handle around 18psi. The internals are the same. Its the turbo, im wondering about. 15psi on a stock turbo would have to be maxed out. Also, with your mods which makes your lude pretty hooked up I must say, they just arent going to compete with 18psi spike and a turbo holding at 15psi. Plus, to go along with the other mods he has. Lets say all the money you spent and the mods you have add about hmm..25hp. He spent 300$ on a boost controller to add about 100hp. d00d, theres no way in hell. I have no idea where you guys got that a stock tsi runs 15psi boost. I believe the only cars I can think of that run more than 10psi stock is a mitsubishi starion and a grand national. Even the 300ZX with the TT runs like 3-6psi stock. no way, no way in hell. Id have to see it.

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
hrm, this might be the problem, he said the boost gauge read 15 psi at stock. then when he got the upper intercooler pipe and BOV he could get it upto a breif 18psi. i'll have to do some research, maybe the gauge is off

d00d, I am really sorry about giving you all these problems but it just doesnt seem likely at all. What kind of boost gauge does he have? To find out if its off or not, see what it is when the car is off. It should be at 0. If its not then its off. If hes going by the stock boost gauge then he only has 7psi boost, then it would be likely you could edge him out. Id say the upgraded exhaust and intercooler piping would add another 2psi. If he doesnt have a boost controller then hes not running anything over that. You say your car has 190hp stock. His has 210hp stock. Now lets look at just 18psi. Thats 180hp right there. His car (if 18psi) should have double the amount of power yours has and should leave you like your sitting still. All the mods you have add power but wheel power isnt that great. AEM says there cam gears add 15hp but thats like 8-10whp to the wheels. Same with every other mod you have. Exhaust, 15hp = 8-10whp. And those numbers are if the AEM is tuned nicely. The AFC = 1-2hp, as with the Ignition system. Your car maybe has 200whp, his with 18psi should have around 400whp and tsi/gs-t's are capable of 450whp on stock internals and fuel system. Its just really not likely unless you have a shot or some kind of charger. I remember seeing a type-r on the front page (on this site) with a massive amount of engine work done with a supercharger and it was only pushing 230whp.
And since the ludes weigh about the same amount as the tsi, theres NO WAY unless hes not really running 18psi. Do some research or maybe you can race my friend in his GS-T with 15psi and he can show you theres no way. Where do you live?

I'm sorry to step in here, but let's be nice gents. But I must say that I do backup toykilla 100%. The specs and numbers don't add up.

Originally posted by KaptainMike
I'm sorry to step in here, but let's be nice gents. But I must say that I do backup toykilla 100%. The specs and numbers don't add up.

thank *** someone finally agrees with me, i just wish it was a honda/acura guy so it wouldnt be mitsu vs honda/acura. oh well, thanks mike. i just dont find it possible for a stock honda hatchback to beat a ferrari but thats just me. =/

[ChrisCantSkate]

ok, im backing you up now on the specs, his must be off. theres no way, he dosnt own a boost controller, theres no way in hell exaust, intake, upper ic pipe, and BOV could bring him to 18psi. we are both going to the track tomorrow, so i'll have timeslips after that, we can get this settled. i really hated arguing this, i thought the tis/gst ran 15 psi stock, making a 3psi boost gain from his mods likley. im glad we got this shit settled but. i still did beat him....... exhale

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
ok, im backing you up now on the specs, his must be off. theres no way, he dosnt own a boost controller, theres no way in hell exaust, intake, upper ic pipe, and BOV could bring him to 18psi. we are both going to the track tomorrow, so i'll have timeslips after that, we can get this settled. i really hated arguing this, i thought the tis/gst ran 15 psi stock, making a 3psi boost gain from his mods likley. im glad we got this shit settled but. i still did beat him....... exhale

Thank you man, with the mods you have im sure you did edge him out with him at 7psi. Good kill. Nice job. Maybe its a 8psi boost spike that drops back down to 5-7psi? Anyways, If i was him, id get that checked out. Maybe an aftermarket boost gauge and even a boost controller. Good Kill!!!

[ChrisCantSkate]

well, i cant make it to the track today, im broke oh well, he's still going, i'll see what numbers he brings back

5-7psi..ill tell you what he will get. =) I promise we wont run anything better than 14.3. Thats if hes an AWESOME DRIVER. I mean AWESOME. Normal driver will get 14.5-14.8. Bill Hahn in his RS when it was stageI with 7psi boost ran a 14.5. and Bill Hahn is an AWESOME DRIVER. Thats also with high compression. No exhaust or anything. Just the stageI turbo kit. Let me know what he goods!! =)

[ChrisCantSkate]

he ran 14.4 with 2.314 60 ft @97 mph

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
he ran 14.4 with 2.314 60 ft @97 mph

and now that i look at that, he must have messed up racing me, cause i dont think i can pull a 14.4 w/o tuning my car.

hehe I told ya...=)

[ChrisCantSkate]

hrm... there was a prelude there he said pulling 14.4's with less a few mods than me....... too bad i dont know how to launch my car at the track

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
hrm... there was a prelude there he said pulling 14.4's with less a few mods than me....... too bad i dont know how to launch my car at the track

Well there you go then. There's incentive to practice and race him again.

[Racing Rice]

ToyKilla - Stock Turbo Eclipse and Talons fuel stuff is good for 18 lbs of boost... Thats hard to believe.. No one I know that has one has been able to do that without upgrading.. Maybe its been their cars tho.. Just sounds little to high to me.

Originally posted by Racing Rice
ToyKilla - Stock Turbo Eclipse and Talons fuel stuff is good for 18 lbs of boost... Thats hard to believe.. No one I know that has one has been able to do that without upgrading.. Maybe its been their cars tho.. Just sounds little to high to me.

Im saying that from experience. One of my good friends in his 95 GS-T ran 18psi for about 3months. Fuel was fine, internals were good. But he killed his map sensor so he brought it back down to 15psi which is still damn fast.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by 94_AcCoRd_EX


Well there you go then. There's incentive to practice and race him again.

oh im praticing trust me.... i got my street launches almost perfect now... but we all know how different the track is

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by toykilla


Im saying that from experience. One of my good friends in his 95 GS-T ran 18psi for about 3months. Fuel was fine, internals were good. But he killed his map sensor so he brought it back down to 15psi which is still damn fast.

Ok.. I talked to a friend of mine that has one, He said you could do it, but thats where you will start to see sketchy results especially depending on the car.. He said most Peeps say you are safest about 14-15lbs.

I talked to a few guys on a DSM board, and they told me that the stock turbo CAN run an indicated 18psi, but that the heat generated by the turbo at anything above 15psi negates any possible gain. So, you can run an indicated 18psi, it just won't do any better than 15psi. Might even be looking at turbo damage if it's set that high for extended periods of time.

Originally posted by Matrix
I talked to a few guys on a DSM board, and they told me that the stock turbo CAN run an indicated 18psi, but that the heat generated by the turbo at anything above 15psi negates any possible gain. So, you can run an indicated 18psi, it just won't do any better than 15psi. Might even be looking at turbo damage if it's set that high for extended periods of time.

AGREED!! Luckily my friend didnt have a stock turbo. Just internals and fuel system. =) Thats what I thought about the stock turbo though. I didnt think it would hold more than 15psi boost.

[Racing Rice]

makes perfect sense to me...

If you want to see what a Prelude can do against a moded GST check out http://www.racevidz.com/index2.htm Go to Prelude Vidz. The Prelude only has I/E and the GST's mods are listed.

Originally posted by 97lude
If you want to see what a Prelude can do against a moded GST check out http://www.racevidz.com/index2.htm Go to Prelude Vidz. The Prelude only has I/E and the GST's mods are listed.

lol, if that d00d had a boost controller he forgot to use it. =/

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by toykilla


lol, if that d00d had a boost controller he forgot to use it. =/

I agree that was pathetic.. There is no way he shoulda lost that bad..