Beginning to rebuild b18a1 - engine prep questions

[blind34_1]

Just what the title implies. I've done a lot of searching on this, but I can't seem to find the answers I need.

I'm finally going to be working on this engine, with the help of my cousin (runs his own shop). The first step is to build this engine to swap it into my civic. Since he does not have any machine tools, the engine will have to be sent off to a machine shop.

I want to be able to talk half way intelligently to the shop, to tell them what I want done. Problem is, I don't KNOW what I need.

I'm wanting the motor to be a solid daily driver. But to build it so that down the road, it will be able to handle light to moderate boost (around 6-8psi). There are no CURRENT plans to run forced induction right away, I just want to get it the car running again.

On a normal rebuild, I know that you need to:

- hone the cylinders
- make sure the top of the block is flat

but what else? and is making sure the top of the block flat called "decking" or is that something else? what head work should be done? I know that a lot of people have a three or five way valve job done, but what is this exactly?

and what is the deal with a block guard? I know this is a cheap alternative to sleeving the cylinders, but what is the point to the block guard, and what are the disadvantages? (obviously cost is the advantage) Do I even need one at all?

and what do you think of these rebuild kits you can buy? I've seen this one: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hm-perfo...blenreki1.html
compared to this one: http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...pek-acura.html
and there is an obvious price difference. For my application, would going with the expensive kit really be worth it in the end?

give me a hand here, I'm needing to get going on this project, its been more than 2 years, and I'm itchin to drive it again.

[ebpda9]

did u first test the engine ? i know some of those engines might have a compression problem, but for 6-8 psi i wouldn't bother too much with it.

[blind34_1]

the engine has roughly 25k miles on it.

plus, the engine is mostly disassembled; all the components are in boxes. It was someone elses project, and they decided to sell it.

It has been sitting on cold concrete for over 2 years, and I know that can't be good for it. What should I look for or have tested, specifically?

[Jazn671]

i would buy the acura rebuild kit. i like oem parts over autozone...
valve jobs is cutting the valve seat. 3 angle = cut at 3 different angles, 5 angle = cut at 5 different angles. 5 is custom and normally you'll have to provide specs or degrees at which you wish cut. 3 angle's pretty standard and most machine shops use that standard. since this sounds like a budget boost build, i'd run a block guard and low compression head gasket.

[blind34_1]

good idea on the oem kit, i didnt think of that. It'll be pricey, but worth a look at least.

and what do you mean by a low compression head gasket? The thickness of the gasket?

[Jazn671]

yeah... it's thicker lowering your compression a couple of points.

[MissJDM]

Decking the block is to make sure that there is a proper mating surface with the head and the block. A block guard gives the top of the cylinders more strength / protection in case of cylinder walk. Yes, it's like a cheaper way of putting sleeves in. You can get more strength if you put a type R or GSR block girdle (which replaces the 3 main caps), it gives the bottom end more strength at higher RPMs...and would work well with boost. Keep us posted!

[blind34_1]

I've been doing some more reading and asking around. A friend told me that an easy way to tell if a block needs decking is to get a straight piece of metal, stand it on edge, and use a feeler guage to see if there is any space between the block and the metal edge. Seems like a decent idea, or would it be better to send it into a shop, and let them hone the cylinders also?

And block guard = block girdle? I was looking that up, and found this from endyne: http://www.theoldone.com/components/block_girdle/
I can see where you bolt that into the bottom of the block, but I guess I'm missing where it goes on top...I'll need to look at my engine more closely.

And heres a stupid question: Does the head need to be assembled to have a valve job done?


So far my first steps are:

- evaluate block, head condition
- send block, head in for decking (if necessary), cylinder honing.
- order acura oem rebuild kit
- order blockguard from endyne

[Jazn671]

block guard is not the same as the block girdle. girdle bottom, block guard top. the block guard is tapped into the water jacket around the top of the cylinder wall. the square is a good way to tell if the block needs to be decked. in order for the valve job to be accomplished correctly, you'll need to provide the machine shop with your head and valves. whatever valves you're planning on using, give them to the machine shop. hope this helps.

[blind34_1]

helps a lot, thanks everyone for the straight forward answers. keep em comin!

would a girdle on the bottom be okay without the guard on the top? I've heard the guard can cause hotspots, and may require some cutting (according to Endyne). Would just a gridle on the bottom make a difference as far as strengthening the block?

[Jazn671]

if i were going to run a turbo, and i were pulling the head, i'd do a thicker headgasket and a blockguard for safe measure... at least the headgasket. but actually, if i were going turbo and pulling the head, i'd build the bottom end... but i know you're on a budget so... your choice.

[blind34_1]

I'm more concerned with having problems stemming from a blockguard. This comment from the endyn guys has me worried:
"
The concept is really a good one. My personal experience with them is that the top of the cylinder bore runs extremely hot due to the lack of coolant. We have taken the unit and used a 3/8" end mill and scalloped the circular sections which surround the cylinder bores. We leave only 1/8th" sections every 3/8th". So you still support the cylinder, but only in 1/8th" wide areas, which allows much better cylinder cooling, and if you do this mod, and you really need the support, do it....it'll work. Make sure that after "fitting" the unit, bore and hone after installation. Also deck the block after installation and clean the block thoroughly before assembly. Do not, under any circumstances remove the blockguard after all this machining and prep, or you'll need to start over.
"
for this reason, I might just go with a girdle onthe crank side, and use a thicker head gasket.

And, yes I am on a budget (who isn't?), but I am willing to spend more now, then have to fix my decisions made in cheapness. I want to do it right the first time.

My goal is to get the car running naturally, then be able to add turbo later on, with as little problems as possible.

[Jazn671]

i agree and understand your concerns... so in conclusion, your decision to just use the girdle and head gasket is by no means a bad decision. i also understand you're willing to spend more now... but how much more? doing it right the first time can mean rebuilding an engine with a block girdle and thicker headgasket or a bulletproof block from aebs or ge or something along those lines... so no disrespect when i mention "budget". just saying...

[blind34_1]

okay, more specifically my plan is:

to build a solid, stable, reliable engine. , to run in the 90 civic. Easily boostable in the future, but for now, leave that out.

planning to use oem honda parts, for their quality. NOT planning to use many aftermarket internals, because this is not an engine intended for racing, just my personal enjoyment, and it needs to be reliable and long lasting. I plan to use the stock LS rods (because they are already super strong), oem piston rings, because they are pre gapped and garuanteed to be right. oem bearings, again for quality. stock crankshaft, again for quality, and it is well balanced from the factory.

I plan to work on this with my cousin, who likes building engines and related car work. He is also a manager at autozone, so parts are easy to get. Between the both of us, I think we can get this thing done and running before september (which is my projected finish date).

I'm not wanting to send the block off to have somebody do the work that we could probably do (as far as assembling). Looking at some of prices those places charge, I think my money would be better spent buying quality parts and assembling/installing ourselves.

Headwork is still kind of a question mark. I need to call around and figure out where a machine shop is in my area, and I need to find one that knows what they are doing. I need one that will be patient and willing to sit down with me to decide what i need. (You've already helped me a great deal, so now i can get some terminology right, and kind of know what im talking about!)

I'm still thinking I'm going to use honda valves, springs, etc. just for their quality. The valves I currently have should be okay, but should I get new springs? I've been reading this article, again from endyn, and it was kind of enlightening: http://www.theoldone.com/components/cylinderheads/
and disturbing. Makes me wonder if any old machine shop is aware of some these concepts that they (endyn) have figured out.

[thermal]

Save yourself a headache later and sleeve that block man. GE is the cheapest out there although I've heard a few complaints of their sleeve sinking. But who cares, their shit has a warranty and will re-sleeve for free if it ever sinks.

The thing is, you might say that you will only push 6-8 psi now, but trust me, that plan will not last long. A couple of months later you'll be fuckin' with that boost controller to give it another 2 psi. he he he he...

I've helped a few friends built their motors. I'm actually building my JDM ITR B18C right now for boost. This is the first time I'm building a motor for myself and not for ricer joe this time.

[Jazn671]

exactly... i've gone down that route before... it won't hurt if i turn it up a bit... sleeve it now, do it once, do it right... and i just noticed you're in illinois... where? i know of a couple of machine shops around here. well... depending on where in illinois.

[blind34_1]

ill consider sleeving as an option. any particular brands to shop for, or is it better to let the shop decide and use what they are comfortable with?


I live in peoria, IL. i think carol stream is more in the chicago area. I'm not wanting to travel too far unless it is an amazing deal or something.

[thermal]

As far as sleeves, I prefer either AEBS or Darton. Next is Benson. Last is Golden Eagle. But I do know a few people who never had problems with their GE set-up neither. As a matter of fact, I have a friend with over 500 whp on a boosted 84.5mm GE sleeves molested for almost a year now. It was abused with nitrous for 8 months before that.....

[Jazn671]

yeah peoria's a bit far... i agree with thermal. aebs.