.:HSTuners::

Lee · 10-02-2006, 02:31 AM

I bought a used civic about 4 months ago. Runs fine for about 15 minutes then runs crappy. The top speed when it runs crappy is only about 30, If i floor it in park it will goto 3200 Rpms and I guess reset or whatever you call it (like if you red line it ,) i think the rev limiter is what its called. Once it cools it will run fine for another 15 minutes. Also my key is warm to hot when i pull it out of the ignition switch. I put new spark plugs but it does the same. Had a code reader hooked up to it and was told there was an issue with Cam and Crank position sensors. But it only does this on warm to hot days, above 80 or so. Cold front came in not that long ago and hit 74 for a hi. and it ran beautiful all day long. Its a pain and the dealership will do nothing for me. i dont want to pay 56 and 89 for sensors and it no be that. Someone help email at elroy352@hotmail.com.

Roy

JDMFantasy2k · 10-02-2006, 11:07 AM

ok buddy i'll tke a stab at it. First of all we need a little more info. What is your temperature gauge doing during all this? Is it overheating at all? Next i want you to check the distributor. The TDC and CKP sensors should both be in the distributor (although you have a 2001 so they may be doing it different). So inspect the wiring, and make sure it hasn't been tampered with. The thing that really gets me is you say it runs fine depending on ambient temperature which would suggest a skewed intake air temperature sensor, and that will cause your motor to run like crap. But bad timing will cause your engine not to rev normally. Basically you could be looking at anything, and i think you're gonna end up bringing it somewhere unless you have some pretty good diagnostic skills.

so issues you may be looking at:
sensor problem inside distributor (CKP and TDC; cam and crank sensors)
ECT sensor
IAT sensor
Bad timing
other problem

Lee · 10-02-2006, 05:11 PM

Each spark plug has a coil for itself (4). The temp gauge is normal the whole time. When its running fine, its a bit sluggish but runs good. Only has this problem on warm to hot days. And no matter what the weather is like, the key is always hot when i pull it out of the ignition switch. All the wires seem fine under the hood. Screws on the air filter assembly are broken only 2 seem to be securing it.

I've been told the cat converter could be clogged. Or the fuel pump /filter could be bad. But if its the fuel pump why does it only screw up on warm to hot days?

If there's any other information on my part to help maybe come up with a diagnosis just ask and i'll do my best to answer.

ROY

JDMFantasy2k · 10-02-2006, 05:58 PM

well i had a suspicion that the D17's were coil on plug and you obviously confirmed that. So in that case, is your check engine light on? Does it come on and go out or what? I'd rule out the cat problem for the sheer fact that you say it runs fine when it's cold outside, right? If the cat were clogged it, the ambient air temp shouldn't affect it. I'd also rule out the fuel filter for the same reason, it wouldn't be affected by the temp. The fuel pump also shoudn't be either, but when fuel is warm it can do funny things. The hot key thing may or not be related, but lets think it's not. The thing that gets me is that this problem is dependant on temperature. Describe to me exactly what it does when it's warm out. Something that would help more would be hooking it up to a professional scan tool to look at the PID (parameter Identification data) which is a reading of all the sensors on the vehicle. Unfortunatley i highly doubt that you own one, as they are thousands of dollars. But that would allow me to see what each sensor is doing, and you could compare it to how the sensors are reacting when it's cold. The other thing you mentioned was the cam and crank sensors. When you read the code, was it continuous (present) DTC, or was it a pending (about to happen), or history (already been fixed, but still stored), code? If it's a continuious problem, your check engine light should be illuminated. If it's a pending code, that means that something failed a test once, but you need to fail twice for most things to illiminate the MIL (malfunction indicator lamp), so it stores it in a pending area. If it's a history code, that means it once was a pending or continuous code, but the problem has been fixed, and the computer will hold the code in memory for 40 drive cycles (usually). I know that's a lot of info, but the more you tell me, the more i can help.

Lee · 10-02-2006, 11:03 PM

In the morning it will run beautiful. When I'm on lunch or when I get out of work it will run normal for about 15minutes idle time or about 30 miles driving. I say idle because I have let it sit there untill it starts to sound funky (like and old carbureted engine that has a very low idle) and the check engine light comes on. I failed to mention the check engine light earlier. I'm i'm on the freeway it will be running normal, then all of a sudden the check engine light will come on and the problem starts. The engine will bog down and not have very much power. My top speed during this will be 30 with the ac on and about 36 with it off. If I pull over and pop the hood to let it cool about 10 minutes the start it and run it , it will do fine for 15minutes idle or 30 miles driving like i said. When it does it again I let it cool and it does the same thing . I went the cheap route and had it tested at autozone with their code reader because they could only test it when the check engine light on.The check engine light never comes on, except for when this problem is fixing to happen seconds later. The guy told me it was a malfunction with the crank and/or cam position sensor. So I decided to pay $60 at a place called precision tune (something like that not sure) and they told me the same thing. During all this time, it doesnt overheat. and it doesnt stall. it just loses power like i'm towing a mobile home with an ATV. I dont know how else to describe it. It did it to me today on the way home from work. And on the way to the movie theater around 7. I just got home a few minutes ago and it drove beautiful with out any problems. I know for sure it has something to do with something getting hot and malfunctioning but i just dont know what and i cant afford to be buying parts and not have the problem fixed. If ya need more information about the situation just ask , i'll do my best.

ROY

JDMFantasy2k · 10-04-2006, 12:03 PM

Ok here's what's happeneing. Now you have a D17, which is basically different from all the other honda motors, so i don't know where evey part is but basically...

The crank sensor makes perfect sense. What it sounds like is it's reading is getting skewed when it heats up, and it changes the hell out of your ignition timing. I'm guessing the timing is going way retarted. If the timing is very retarded you will have basically no power, and it can cause the motor to get warm (maybe not water temp wise, but it will heat up the engine bay), and then you need to let it cool down. So it definatley sounds like the crank sensor is the culprit, i'm just wondering why it only happens when the car is warm.

10-02-2006, 02:31 AM	#1
Lee Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3	2001 Civic LX I bought a used civic about 4 months ago. Runs fine for about 15 minutes then runs crappy. The top speed when it runs crappy is only about 30, If i floor it in park it will goto 3200 Rpms and I guess reset or whatever you call it (like if you red line it ,) i think the rev limiter is what its called. Once it cools it will run fine for another 15 minutes. Also my key is warm to hot when i pull it out of the ignition switch. I put new spark plugs but it does the same. Had a code reader hooked up to it and was told there was an issue with Cam and Crank position sensors. But it only does this on warm to hot days, above 80 or so. Cold front came in not that long ago and hit 74 for a hi. and it ran beautiful all day long. Its a pain and the dealership will do nothing for me. i dont want to pay 56 and 89 for sensors and it no be that. Someone help email at elroy352@hotmail.com. Roy

10-02-2006, 11:07 AM	#2
JDMFantasy2k Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: northeastern connecticut Age: 37 Posts: 1,765	ok buddy i'll tke a stab at it. First of all we need a little more info. What is your temperature gauge doing during all this? Is it overheating at all? Next i want you to check the distributor. The TDC and CKP sensors should both be in the distributor (although you have a 2001 so they may be doing it different). So inspect the wiring, and make sure it hasn't been tampered with. The thing that really gets me is you say it runs fine depending on ambient temperature which would suggest a skewed intake air temperature sensor, and that will cause your motor to run like crap. But bad timing will cause your engine not to rev normally. Basically you could be looking at anything, and i think you're gonna end up bringing it somewhere unless you have some pretty good diagnostic skills. so issues you may be looking at: sensor problem inside distributor (CKP and TDC; cam and crank sensors) ECT sensor IAT sensor Bad timing other problem __________________

10-02-2006, 05:58 PM	#4
JDMFantasy2k Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: northeastern connecticut Age: 37 Posts: 1,765	well i had a suspicion that the D17's were coil on plug and you obviously confirmed that. So in that case, is your check engine light on? Does it come on and go out or what? I'd rule out the cat problem for the sheer fact that you say it runs fine when it's cold outside, right? If the cat were clogged it, the ambient air temp shouldn't affect it. I'd also rule out the fuel filter for the same reason, it wouldn't be affected by the temp. The fuel pump also shoudn't be either, but when fuel is warm it can do funny things. The hot key thing may or not be related, but lets think it's not. The thing that gets me is that this problem is dependant on temperature. Describe to me exactly what it does when it's warm out. Something that would help more would be hooking it up to a professional scan tool to look at the PID (parameter Identification data) which is a reading of all the sensors on the vehicle. Unfortunatley i highly doubt that you own one, as they are thousands of dollars. But that would allow me to see what each sensor is doing, and you could compare it to how the sensors are reacting when it's cold. The other thing you mentioned was the cam and crank sensors. When you read the code, was it continuous (present) DTC, or was it a pending (about to happen), or history (already been fixed, but still stored), code? If it's a continuious problem, your check engine light should be illuminated. If it's a pending code, that means that something failed a test once, but you need to fail twice for most things to illiminate the MIL (malfunction indicator lamp), so it stores it in a pending area. If it's a history code, that means it once was a pending or continuous code, but the problem has been fixed, and the computer will hold the code in memory for 40 drive cycles (usually). I know that's a lot of info, but the more you tell me, the more i can help. __________________

10-04-2006, 12:03 PM	#6
JDMFantasy2k Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: northeastern connecticut Age: 37 Posts: 1,765	Ok here's what's happeneing. Now you have a D17, which is basically different from all the other honda motors, so i don't know where evey part is but basically... The crank sensor makes perfect sense. What it sounds like is it's reading is getting skewed when it heats up, and it changes the hell out of your ignition timing. I'm guessing the timing is going way retarted. If the timing is very retarded you will have basically no power, and it can cause the motor to get warm (maybe not water temp wise, but it will heat up the engine bay), and then you need to let it cool down. So it definatley sounds like the crank sensor is the culprit, i'm just wondering why it only happens when the car is warm. __________________

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10-02-2006, 05:11 PM	#3
Lee Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3	Each spark plug has a coil for itself (4). The temp gauge is normal the whole time. When its running fine, its a bit sluggish but runs good. Only has this problem on warm to hot days. And no matter what the weather is like, the key is always hot when i pull it out of the ignition switch. All the wires seem fine under the hood. Screws on the air filter assembly are broken only 2 seem to be securing it. I've been told the cat converter could be clogged. Or the fuel pump /filter could be bad. But if its the fuel pump why does it only screw up on warm to hot days? If there's any other information on my part to help maybe come up with a diagnosis just ask and i'll do my best to answer. ROY

10-02-2006, 11:03 PM	#5
Lee Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3	In the morning it will run beautiful. When I'm on lunch or when I get out of work it will run normal for about 15minutes idle time or about 30 miles driving. I say idle because I have let it sit there untill it starts to sound funky (like and old carbureted engine that has a very low idle) and the check engine light comes on. I failed to mention the check engine light earlier. I'm i'm on the freeway it will be running normal, then all of a sudden the check engine light will come on and the problem starts. The engine will bog down and not have very much power. My top speed during this will be 30 with the ac on and about 36 with it off. If I pull over and pop the hood to let it cool about 10 minutes the start it and run it , it will do fine for 15minutes idle or 30 miles driving like i said. When it does it again I let it cool and it does the same thing . I went the cheap route and had it tested at autozone with their code reader because they could only test it when the check engine light on.The check engine light never comes on, except for when this problem is fixing to happen seconds later. The guy told me it was a malfunction with the crank and/or cam position sensor. So I decided to pay $60 at a place called precision tune (something like that not sure) and they told me the same thing. During all this time, it doesnt overheat. and it doesnt stall. it just loses power like i'm towing a mobile home with an ATV. I dont know how else to describe it. It did it to me today on the way home from work. And on the way to the movie theater around 7. I just got home a few minutes ago and it drove beautiful with out any problems. I know for sure it has something to do with something getting hot and malfunctioning but i just dont know what and i cant afford to be buying parts and not have the problem fixed. If ya need more information about the situation just ask , i'll do my best. ROY