what happened

[CD5Passion]

whatever happened to the energized political talk around here

[GT40FIED]

Not really much to get energized about, I'm afraid. Honestly...this election was between two fairly shitty candidates. McCain is a crazy old fuck who used to be a fairly centerist politician until he decided he wanted to win and began pandering to the lunatic fringe (i.e. the republican base). Obama was a limp dick milquetoast who never called McCain on any of his bullshit and has some pretty skewed views on a lot of things. All said and done I liked Obama more, but that's not saying much. I, for one, refuse to buy into that "lesser of two evils" bullshit, so I didn't vote. Fuck, I didn't even register. Kansas will always be a red state anyway, so me not voting doesn't matter much because, in the end, all the electoral college votes go to crazy old Uncle Fester...errr...McCain anyway. Besides, even if you liked either guy who's to say what kind of an asshole he'll be in 4 years? And yes...they ALWAYS turn into assholes.

And while I'm thinking about it...Palin...what the fuck? Who in their right mind picks such a dipshit bimbo (not because she's a woman...but because she's dumber than a bag of hair) as a running mate? Her qualifications were mayor of bumblescum Alaska and governor of the 47th largest (by population) state in the country. Her husband was a fucking SEPERATIST...he wanted Alaska to break away from the rest of the country and she told the leader of the party he belonged to that she "shared his goals". Biden, on the other hand, rocks the shit. He's the only one who said what he meant at all (for more info, watch the clip of him being interviewed on a Florida TV station). Fuck this bullshit. From now on, I'm telling people I'm Swiss.

[VR4_Craver]

You could have always voted for the write in guy. Pretty good sounding but then again dont all politicians sound good when talking then fuck you when in office...

http://www.baldwin08.com/

[GT40FIED]

Awwww fuck. I was sooooo hoping it was Alec Baldwin. Or even one of the inferior Baldwins. That dude seems a bit far out there for me. Especially on pulling out of the U.N. With the country in the state it's in this is probably the exact WRONG time to cut ties with the rest of the world. Now if we could get the world to donate...say...$700 billion we'd be set. Check under your sofa cushions, motherfuckers!

[ChrisCantSkate]

ehh, it was what it was. i voted mccain, i felt he had a better grasp on the economy, bairly. obama seemed like a good speaker, but beyond that, time will tell. either way i feel we are in for a interesting 4 years.

[GT40FIED]

I don't think either of them had any significant grasp on economic policy....let's face it, few people do aside from economists. Any economic policy will be coming from cabinet members anyway. McCain even said he "had a lot to learn" when it came to the economy. At least he was honest for once, I suppose.

It's a shame that the elections took place in the time they did when all people wanted to hear about was the economy. Sure, it's important but there are a lot of other pressing issues that didn't really get addressed. Hell...even I can come up with better prop-ups for the economy. How, you ask?

Repeal all of the Bush administration's initiatives. And I mean ALL of them. It's pretty clear they did nothing to help us. Tax the shit out of the rich...they can afford it. Even a slight bump in middle class (my and your) taxes would be fine with me. I hate paying taxes, but I know I have to in order to have things like police, firefighters, civil services, etc. Americans expect a whole hell of a lot but don't want anything coming out of their pocket for it. Time to change that. You'll wish you paid taxes when your house catches fire and no one comes to put it out. Slash the defense budget big time. Hell, cut it in half and it's still the biggest in the world. Who are we afraid of, anyway? We're on fairly good terms with Russia thanks to M.A.D. and China owns so much shit here there's no point in them trying anything. We're fighting a war that has no clear definition of "win", so put an end to that right now. Nation building costs money and we ain't got any to spare. Besides, the war will never be "won" by the American definition so why does it matter when we leave? We had no problem pulling out of Vietnam and they seem to be doing ok. Also, let's have EVERY financial regulatory institution in this country do a MAJOR overhaul so nobody gets to pull the same bullshit that put us into this situation in the first place. There...that's gotta be a few trillion over a few years.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Repeal all of the Bush administration's initiatives. And I mean ALL of them. It's pretty clear they did nothing to help us. Tax the shit out of the rich...they can afford it. Even a slight bump in middle class (my and your) taxes would be fine with me. I hate paying taxes, but I know I have to in order to have things like police, firefighters, civil services, etc. Americans expect a whole hell of a lot but don't want anything coming out of their pocket for it. Time to change that. You'll wish you paid taxes when your house catches fire and no one comes to put it out. Slash the defense budget big time. Hell, cut it in half and it's still the biggest in the world. Who are we afraid of, anyway? We're on fairly good terms with Russia thanks to M.A.D. and China owns so much shit here there's no point in them trying anything. We're fighting a war that has no clear definition of "win", so put an end to that right now. Nation building costs money and we ain't got any to spare. Besides, the war will never be "won" by the American definition so why does it matter when we leave? We had no problem pulling out of Vietnam and they seem to be doing ok. Also, let's have EVERY financial regulatory institution in this country do a MAJOR overhaul so nobody gets to pull the same bullshit that put us into this situation in the first place. There...that's gotta be a few trillion over a few years.

do it bitches

[CD5Passion]

ahhhh right, this is what I was looking for. I love some good ol political talk. as long as they don't break out into fights (although I admit they were entertaining)

I voted Obama because I trusted him more than McCain to not follow Bush's amazing plans. Honestly, how can you trust a man who recruited that travesty of a gun-toting, religious freak. My god Palin sickened me. I have my hopes that Obama can make a change, aside from the cliche campaign promo. But I don't expect him to be able to just pull our of Iraq and wave a magical wand to fix the economy, it'll take time. On a side note, it was pretty cool to see Obama redraw the political landscape, what with him past Republican states.

[VR4_Craver]

Im sure its not just me but I think palin was hot. Beleive my I have been trolling ebay for the "Nalin Palin" wideo to show up. Other than that I have a simple way to determine who to vote for..ALL politicans are liars...its just whose lies do you like hearing more?

[Racing Rice]

This whole election made me sick.. If those four jokes are the best this country has we're fucked sideways on every day that ends with day. My biggest hope was that McCain/Palin would get into office and we'd get a white house Palin Gang bang video leaked out. That'd be the video worth watchin, don'tcha know.

Obama worries me. He has no history, no records, and his views are to way left for me. What can I do though, he's our president for the next 4 years.. Guess it's time to hide my guns and start packing for Canada? Any Canucks have a spare room?

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Racing Rice

This whole election made me sick.. If those four jokes are the best this country has we're fucked sideways on every day that ends with day. My biggest hope was that McCain/Palin would get into office and we'd get a white house Palin Gang bang video leaked out. That'd be the video worth watchin, don'tcha know.

Obama worries me. He has no history, no records, and his views are to way left for me. What can I do though, he's our president for the next 4 years.. Guess it's time to hide my guns and start packing for Canada? Any Canucks have a spare room?

Ummm...the politically correct term is "Canidiots".

Seriously though, I'll agree with you on one thing...I was sick to death this time around. It was so polarizing I don't think anyone benefited. Obama was far off to the left (and I tend to be slightly left leaning, so that says something) and McCain was so far to the right he was almost off the fucking map. I really hope Obama, for all his rhetoric up to this point, realizes what America really needs is someone who can bring people together and do it rationally. You know what...I'll come right out and say that, with things like gun control, it's all about moderation. Do people have the right to own guns? Absolutely. Do you need a Barrett or a full auto AR-15 to take down a deer? Only if you're a REALLY shitty hunter. I believe people have the right to protect themselves and their property, but people whining about how the government wants to take their SKS need to shut the fuck up and realize they're making their problems worse (a Magnum Research .50 on the other hand...). I'd like to see reasonable taxes across the board. I want to see rich people pay their share (read: a hell of a lot more than me) and quit bitching. I want middle class people to pay their share and quit bitching. And I want lower class people...wait...does anyone listen to them anyway? John Edwards did and look what happened to him. Remember, the richest 1% of this country controls more money than the bottom 150 million. Shouldn't that change right about...now? Not that we should actively take their money because a small few of them might have actually earned it, but they need to start pulling their weight. I'd also like to see some honest to god energy plans that don't include drilling anywhere that's protected by law. Or drilling for anything, for that matter (wait...can we drill for sunlight? No? Ok, nevermind). And stop believing that corn will save us. Ethanol is a dream and a dumb one (if you can find it, which you can't so it's a moot point). Convert common things like ammonia to hydrogen (it's actually pretty simple and surprisingly efficient).

Not such high hopes, but we're exiting a presidency of a man who wilfully and knowingly ignored every piece of science and fact presented to him. A man who said that "the jury is still out" on evolution. What jury and where? The Scopes trial is over. And...FOR FUCK'S SAKE...is it too much to ask that the new guy be able to properly pronounce "nuclear"? I'd really just settle for that.

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Ummm...the politically correct term is "Canidiots".

Seriously though, I'll agree with you on one thing...I was sick to death this time around. It was so polarizing I don't think anyone benefited. Obama was far off to the left (and I tend to be slightly left leaning, so that says something) and McCain was so far to the right he was almost off the fucking map. I really hope Obama, for all his rhetoric up to this point, realizes what America really needs is someone who can bring people together and do it rationally. You know what...I'll come right out and say that, with things like gun control, it's all about moderation. Do people have the right to own guns? Absolutely. Do you need a Barrett or a full auto AR-15 to take down a deer? Only if you're a REALLY shitty hunter. I believe people have the right to protect themselves and their property, but people whining about how the government wants to take their SKS need to shut the fuck up and realize they're making their problems worse (a Magnum Research .50 on the other hand...). I'd like to see reasonable taxes across the board. I want to see rich people pay their share (read: a hell of a lot more than me) and quit bitching. I want middle class people to pay their share and quit bitching. And I want lower class people...wait...does anyone listen to them anyway? John Edwards did and look what happened to him. Remember, the richest 1% of this country controls more money than the bottom 150 million. Shouldn't that change right about...now? Not that we should actively take their money because a small few of them might have actually earned it, but they need to start pulling their weight. I'd also like to see some honest to god energy plans that don't include drilling anywhere that's protected by law. Or drilling for anything, for that matter (wait...can we drill for sunlight? No? Ok, nevermind). And stop believing that corn will save us. Ethanol is a dream and a dumb one (if you can find it, which you can't so it's a moot point). Convert common things like ammonia to hydrogen (it's actually pretty simple and surprisingly efficient).

Not such high hopes, but we're exiting a presidency of a man who wilfully and knowingly ignored every piece of science and fact presented to him. A man who said that "the jury is still out" on evolution. What jury and where? The Scopes trial is over. And...FOR FUCK'S SAKE...is it too much to ask that the new guy be able to properly pronounce "nuclear"? I'd really just settle for that.

I've missed you Steve haha. I feel kind of bad for Obama though, people have such high hopes and the man can only do so much.
As for the gun thing, I've noticed this is a favorite thing that anti-Obama's like to say. That goes along with "are you ready for higher taxes?" Like Steve said they aren't going to steal your guns, didn't they just want to make sure that the guns are legal and registered. As for the taxes, who cares? taxes will typically benefit you in some form or another. Think, no taxes, no public education, road maintenance, law enforcement, etc.

[GT40FIED]

Well let's face it...when was the last time ANY politician lived up to even a quarter of their promises? When they campaign they tell you what they'd do if they had their way. Well...they never get their way. The best you can hope for is that they at least TRY to fight the good fight and that doesn't change, regardless of party or affiliation. I'm not happy with Obama, but I at least have reason to hope he's willing to do the right thing. That never would've happened with McCain.

[CD5Passion]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

Well let's face it...when was the last time ANY politician lived up to even a quarter of their promises? When they campaign they tell you what they'd do if they had their way. Well...they never get their way. The best you can hope for is that they at least TRY to fight the good fight and that doesn't change, regardless of party or affiliation. I'm not happy with Obama, but I at least have reason to hope he's willing to do the right thing. That never would've happened with McCain.

we'll just have to see how things pan out.

[Racing Rice]

See people miss the point about gun control. Gun control isn't going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. That's a proven fact. Gun control regulates law abiding citizens. Does someone need a fully auto M16, probably not. Should the government have the right to tell me that I can't own one I don't really think so either.

They should spend more time keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Is that easy, hell no it's not. That's why they go after the law abiding citizens and say they are trying.

That's like banning cars to reduce drunk driving. They'd never do that though, because it would affect them too. They want people to rely on them to serve and protect them and keep them safe. That way they have all of the power.

Just like they are wanting the Social Security Administrations take control of 401Ks and IRAs for GRAs. They can't even get Social Security right. Why the fuck would I want them controlling my 401K or IRA money as well. Are you kidding me?

[VR4_Craver]

My 401k took a shit anyway at least if the SSA took control I would have a deiniteplace to put my blame. One thing that interested me was how many people are speaking against what Obama has said he beleives when the shit they do is just as bad or worse. For example...The catholic church is pissed about how obama stands on abortion because it goes against church ideas. He isnt looking to put an abortion clinic on every corner he is trying to make it ok for rape and incest victims to access this if they wanted. Yet hardly a week goes by that you dont see them shoveling out money to some 8 year old boys family. They have problems to correct before any bitching can be done on their part. As for mccain...I didnt like a few things with him. How after he relized he couldnt win based on views alone (because american public dont want more of the same) he basically resorted to begging to be put in office as a "balance" Well...not to long ago democrats didnt have a stangle hold on congress and bush was president I didnt see him bitching about congress needed more democrats to balance everything. And taxes. I dont mind paying taxes because while I dont need their services every day I am glad they are there when I do. But I dont see the sense in catering to people how dont really need any help while damning those who really do.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Racing Rice

See people miss the point about gun control. Gun control isn't going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. That's a proven fact. Gun control regulates law abiding citizens. Does someone need a fully auto M16, probably not. Should the government have the right to tell me that I can't own one I don't really think so either.

They should spend more time keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Is that easy, hell no it's not. That's why they go after the law abiding citizens and say they are trying.

That's like banning cars to reduce drunk driving. They'd never do that though, because it would affect them too. They want people to rely on them to serve and protect them and keep them safe. That way they have all of the power.

Just like they are wanting the Social Security Administrations take control of 401Ks and IRAs for GRAs. They can't even get Social Security right. Why the fuck would I want them controlling my 401K or IRA money as well. Are you kidding me?

Well keeping anything out of the hands of a criminal is pretty much impossible. If it exists, no matter how illegal, there will always be someone to sell it to you. If you need proof, look no further than the weirder aspects of the porn industry. The thing of it is that I honestly believe that rational people can look at a gun and tell whether or not the general public should be able to own it. A shotgun works well for personal/home defense...do you need an AK or a MP5 to do the same job? Likely no. I would imagine that, statistically at least, most illegal firearms are used for illegal activities. While most people wouldn't go hunting with an AK or SKS (wouldn't be much left after a few 7.62mm rounds hit it anyway...suck on that 5.56mm!), they sure as shit like to use them in drive-bys so it's sort of a guilt-by-association. If you can honestly tell me that there is a legitimate use for an M246 outside of combat, I'd sure like to hear it. I don't like being told what I can and can't own, but it makes me feel a tad bit better some nutcase can't (legally) own them either.

As for 401Ks...mine was with Wachovia. I don't even wanna know what happened there. Fuck...can't the FDIC insure those like they do regular bank deposits? If I'm going to help float the tab on this bailout bullshit, I want to make damn sure ALL my money is safe...not just the funds they feel like protecting.

[ChrisCantSkate]

be warned.. a chris rant.

well, mccain had a history of going against huge spending, and trying to be efficient with his war spending ( ). now i am against the republican charge of late, however for whatever its worth, bush kept us "afloat" through his ginormous spendings, which did cripple us. the tax policies were not as bad as they turned out to be since the spending side was not upto par with the tax exempts.

i am (well, in 9 credit hours) going to have my BS in economics, ive graphed the polices, and played a little economic game theory, and looked at the outcomes and while some of the variables arnt able to be correctly represented on a graph, since economic graphs operate under "ideal conditions" and "rational thought" you can see how this outcome happened.

"trickle down dosnt work" is usually the response i get when i get into economic talks with people, i expect it from my next statement, but i make it and argue it. when you tax the rich(business owners) more because "they can afford it" they do a few things. first they dont give out as many raises. second they look at how they can outsource any and all work to not have to pay taxes on workers to do a job they can either get cheaper overseas, or open a overseas factory. people always say that "well, they would do it anyways regardless if we tax them more or not". not true. put in the variables.

monitary:

~40% tax rate on highest income(i know in the bush plan its littered with incentives, but they are not permanent so we can only count that savings in a short run analysis, where a fixed lower tax can be properly computed in long run business decisions, long term is how you plan your large investments, short run is where you make minor decisions to maximize profit based on recent trends), required mimimum pay(which im not against but its a variable we must regard), in country production, lower shipping costs, no tariffs, closer quality control. able to reinvest money into main company. safe insured monetary system

vs. out of country.

lower taxes(we are one of the highest taxes on business owners), no mimimum pay. unstable environment in and around factory/office/etc. nationalized, or chance of nationalized banks. irratic government/rule.

SIDE BAR

just to put numbers into the higher tax thing, cause it DRIVES ME CRAZY

company A earns a net taxable income of 100million us dollars, pay the 39 or 40% tax that we have going leaving them with 60m to spend

company B works in a 3rd world country where the tax rate is 20%, they earn an additional 20m to be reinvested into the company.

most large companies, the ones who have a sigificant impact on the economy, operate in the billions. we're talking serious cash we are removing from our GDP, and not putting in the hands of our people who spend it in out economy rather than in some other countries. removing money from our system is one of the factors that played into our shitstorm we have now.

/SIDE BAR


now we add these to a risk/reward chart, figure out if the cost of doing business in a questionable environment is worth the saved money. more and more its becoming yes. from a business owners standpoint, it is a much safer investment to be able to go downstairs and check on operations than to have to operate from half way around the world. the other option is to raise prices, which is a combination of what is happening now. businesses dont like operating at a loss, and will do what is needed not to, without consideration for personel. its business, not charity. shitty, but the way it is.

we are shipping jobs overseas and running prices through the roofas is. its not solely because of taxes, nor any one tangable item we can nail down otherwise, the person who figures it out would have a noble prize in econ. its the whole way a system is run. you have one broken part, if you dont fix the problem, and instead try to make the outcome how we want it, everything gets tangled.

now that i got a bit sidetracked lemmi try to wrap this up. we cannot have this spread the wealth notion that obama is pushing. its a early form of socialism, or even communism. this is how carl marx even said communism needs to be implemented, emerging out of capitalism once the market couldnt sustain itself anymore and the government needed to step in to spead the wealth amongst the people, working together to give everyone their needs.

i dont believe that his intentions are to introduce socialism into our economy, but he, as steve said, is a VERY left dem. the democratic party/mindset is a larger government to provide its citizens with needs that could, or couldnt be provided for themselves. his way of combating this bush driven economy of past was to go right against the grain of what he was doing. swinging the opposite way is not a good way of trying to rectify a poor policy. i feel, which is completely my opinion, based on what ive taken in and how i chose to interpret, that a transition to a similar economic policy coupled with a stricter spending schedule would be a better way out of our "crisis" rather than lowering taxes on the largest portion of our taxable GDI, while trying to increase gov't spending to stimulate an economy. we can look at both their voting records, and while both undoubtedly cast votes for their "party buddies" they both followed a pattern on how they felt gov't spending should be allocated.

its tough to promise more to everyone(increase gov't spending), say your going to get the vast minority to pay for it, and bring any sort of stable return to the economy. its great for getting votes. brilliant actually. promise 95% of the country your gonna lower their taxes because more money appeals to well, everyone. say your gonna tax the rich since they can afford it, while promising more free healthcare and the whathaveyous funded by programs that do not compute. someone has to pay. someone always does. the rish business owners are, well, generally smarter than your average joe. thats how they got where they are. they know when they are getting or about to get screwed, and will be cut-throat about doing it. their standard of living wont suffer much from more taxes, they will pass it off to us, you, me, however you want to look at it. they provide us with our needs, we will find a way to pay, we get more money through our "lower taxes" so we can buy more expensive products.

hell i even wouldnt be surprised if sales tax went up.

but all that said. honestly at the end of the day i hope to all hope that obama does a good job. i hope there are enough checks and balances to iron the wrinkles out in his ideas(i hold back calling them plans at this point). i dont wish him ill will, and from a purely human standpoint i think its a great step forward for our country. we elected a black man to the highest office in our government and brought in relatively new blood to the system, giving future no-names a punchers chance. i dont like hierarchy in a democratic system. its not how its supposta be. we will never ever be a pure democracy, its not only impractical given our population, but very hard to carry out in the real world.


ive got a hand cramp now. rip my rant apart, i'll do my best to defend.

[Racing Rice]

Well said Chris..

If you can honestly tell me that there is a legitimate use for an M246 outside of combat, I'd sure like to hear it. I don't like being told what I can and can't own, but it makes me feel a tad bit better some nutcase can't (legally) own them either.

Do I have a legitimate use for a M246 at this moment in time, no not really, nor do I own one. Is there a potential that it may come in useful one day if the Shit hits the fan, I hope not but I'd rather be safe then sorry.. I can't honestly say that I wouldn't want one. The fact is I don't have the money to go out and buy a fully automatic assault rifle, or have the money to burn on ammo for one. Last time I check, my AK and SKS were both semi-auto, along with all of the rest of my guns with the exception of my Pump shot gun, and Single shot shot gun. If shit started going down, I can promise you one thing though, the AK and SKS would be my first choice to defend myself. Start with a high powered rifle, and try to get them before they were close enough to fend off with my AK and SKS, then resort to the AK and SKS if need be, if I still needed it.. The shotty would be close quarters to hopefully finish the job.

As for that nutcase neighbor that owned an M246.. I'd feel better knowing that my next to neighbor had one honestly. There are more good people in this world then bad, and most that are serious enough to own an M246 would be the person I'd want standing next to me if shit did hit the fan.

It's a proven fact that no-gun zones don't stop crime or violence, neither do gun bans. If I were a criminal I'd much rather hit up some place that I knew had no potential of defending themselves. Whether it be with buck shot or a 7.62x39 round. All of these College shootings are prime example.

We agree to disagree on this topic. I don't expect any to agree with me either. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

[VR4_Craver]

unless we literally cut off EVERYONES fingers....there will always be crime.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Racing Rice

Well said Chris..



Do I have a legitimate use for a M246 at this moment in time, no not really, nor do I own one. Is there a potential that it may come in useful one day if the Shit hits the fan, I hope not but I'd rather be safe then sorry.. I can't honestly say that I wouldn't want one. The fact is I don't have the money to go out and buy a fully automatic assault rifle, or have the money to burn on ammo for one. Last time I check, my AK and SKS were both semi-auto, along with all of the rest of my guns with the exception of my Pump shot gun, and Single shot shot gun. If shit started going down, I can promise you one thing though, the AK and SKS would be my first choice to defend myself. Start with a high powered rifle, and try to get them before they were close enough to fend off with my AK and SKS, then resort to the AK and SKS if need be, if I still needed it.. The shotty would be close quarters to hopefully finish the job.

As for that nutcase neighbor that owned an M246.. I'd feel better knowing that my next to neighbor had one honestly. There are more good people in this world then bad, and most that are serious enough to own an M246 would be the person I'd want standing next to me if shit did hit the fan.

It's a proven fact that no-gun zones don't stop crime or violence, neither do gun bans. If I were a criminal I'd much rather hit up some place that I knew had no potential of defending themselves. Whether it be with buck shot or a 7.62x39 round. All of these College shootings are prime example.

We agree to disagree on this topic. I don't expect any to agree with me either. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

The thing is Jeremy, I don't think we DO disagree...at least not fundamentally. I believe firmly that people should be able to own a vast array of guns. I'm not much of a gun man...I've trained hard to learn how to defend myself with my own hands while, in a disagreement/conflict/episode of Cops, any dumbass can pick up a gun. That being said, if the other guy's got a gun, I'd better have one too. No sense taking your fists to a gun fight. Most people will use firearms for one of two things: protection and/or hunting. Overly large caliber weapons don't make sense when hunting because unless you're hunting big game and you absolutely need a one-shot kill you're probably going to blow away half of the damn thing. Likewise, most protection will be done in close quarters so something like a shotgun works pretty well. Hell...even a .22 would make someone think twice about breaking into your house. And that's kind of my point. Outside of the extreme situation most people won't need a military grade weapon (and while you're right about an AK or SKS normally being sold as semi-auto, you can't ignore how painfully simple it is to convert one to full auto or a burst shot mode). Now assuming some serious shit went down...some sort of invasion or full on war in this country...I would certainly hope the government would legalize or even make available the kind of weapons people need (read: serious hardware). And I absolutely agree with you about gun free areas (well...maybe not colleges, because who needs a gun in chem class?). If you ban guns then the only people with guns are, by definition, criminals. Not a good mix. Just ask anyone in Japan who's seen Yakuza shit go down.

As for you Chris, I honestly don't have a vast understanding of the economy. At least not enough to agree or disagree with a large portion of your argument. You've gone to school for that stuff so I'll have to at least assume it's pretty sound. I will, however, clarify that when I say I want to tax the shit out of the rich, I mean personally. I wouldn't favor increased taxation of corporations because, as you pointed out, they'll just find ways around it. But raising the personal income tax of the rich shouldn't (assuming they adhere to ethical guidlines) effect their companies at all. I'd also really like to see big financial penalties to companies who outsource work that could easily be done by people here. I understand that some things just have to be had elsewhere...but when I call an American company and have to speak to someone I can barely understand just because India's (or the Phillipines, apparently) labor force is cheaper (ask anyone who's ever...and I mean ever...called tech support), it pisses me off. Not because they don't know what you're talking about or because I have trouble understanding the accent, but because I know enough people out of work who want to work and can't because good jobs get outsourced. This country doesn't make anything anymore because shit's cheaper everywhere else. There's nothing to sell so debt is king...just ask any of those banks that sold bad mortgages over and over again. We depend on money to make money and that's just gotta stop unless we wanna be tits up in no short order.

[fertooos]

That dude seems a bit far out there for me. Especially on pulling out of the U.N. With the country in the state it's in this is probably the exact WRONG time to cut ties with the rest of the world. Now if we could get the world to donate...say...$700 billion we'd be set. Check under your sofa cushions, motherfuckers!

[TimmyHollins]

We don't need to pay that much. It's just impractical.

[Richard Blake]

Agree with TimmyHollins. There is no need to do that.

[cathyaaa]

I have no idea about it.

[hvxll2]

What happened?