Fuck the NFL

[GT40FIED]

http://ipinstitute.blogspot.com/2007...t-violate.html

If you're planning on having a gathering today where you either charge admission (i.e. if you bought a keg and don't want to get stuck with the whole bill), invite strangers, or watch the superbowl on a display larger than 55", then the NFL would say you've violated their copyrights to the game. So, in the spirit of all-out spite, invite as many strangers as you can over, get the biggest TV you can find, and charge people to party. The NFL should just be happy people still watch they're pathetic bullshit excuse of a "sport".

[ChrisCantSkate]

football has to be one of the best sports as far as competition, training, strategy, and coaching is concerned. then if you wana talk about the business side(which is why they are so successful) its the most watched, most advertised, most marketed, and probably most looked up to as far as kids and their dreams of being an athlete in the united states, and possibly in the world . it may not be for 100% everyone who thinks or feels its the best sport in the united states, but it is the most popular. it really is a thorn in my side every time you go off on how much you think football isnt worth 2 shits. ive been playing on and off for 6-8 years, nothing serious, but i go out and give and take a few hits every week or so. theres so much strategy, its like a chess game in some aspects, then you have 22 guys on the field playing their hearts out trying to do the best they can to beat the other team.

if this isnt a sport, what is? what makes something a sport? cause its obviously not competition, a ball, teams, score, a champion and the end of the year, rules, referees, a playoff, fans, a stadium.... i dont rip on your kung-fu subtitled movies and how fake and retarded i think they are, i just let it go, but you insist on finding the most opportune time to take any sort of cheap shot at anything you dont like and make it sound like anyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

go out and play football, learn the game, learn the strategy, formations, schemes, ideals, etc. then come back and tell me its not a sport.

oh and im watching it on a 61' DLP hdtv , with a keg, and alot of wings, chips, and other various awsome munchy snack foods. im just disapointed that after today it will be 3-4 months before the draft and offseason starts.

[thermal]

Superbowl is just another excuse to drink your ass off..... which I will....

[GT40FIED]

Why is it not a sport? A couple reasons. First of all, the players are fucking pussies. There, I said it. No, not all of them...but the ones that are cheapen the rest of it for everyone else. In Kansas City this past season, QB Trent Green got hit relatively hard and suffered a concusion. Ok, so maybe that deserves a week off. He was out for something like 6 fucking weeks. Sorry, but I've had many concusions before and I was up and about the next day (and I don't play a sport when I get hit regularly). Then when he came back and did play, he acted like a fucking twat and was afraid to make any real plays. He's not alone...there are dozens in the NFL like him. I've also never seen a sport where "pros" were so chickenshit to play. If one more of these candy ass nancy boys walks off the field because of a hurt thumb they should be shot. It's not like you're selling frozen yogurt for a living. You let other large men hit you. Quite whining like some faggot bitch.

There are plenty of other activities that qualify higher as sports than football. Soccer, for instance. It's the only game I've ever seen (other than maybe rugby and other sports Americans are too chickenshit to play) where a guy can get kicked in the face and argue with the coach to stay in the game. Try that with football. That asshole would be out for the season. And if we're talking strategy...ummm...bingo? Seriously...the players have little to no say in what plays get run, so they get no credit. The team has a whole squadron of guys calling the shots for these morons, so I'm not giving them any credit.

Not sure why kung fu movies were brought up here...that's merely a hobby. Besides, kung fu transcends the category of "sport". It's an art form (hence the term "martial arts"). Bashing football was only a minor intent here (thought definitely an intent because it's sincerely overrated)...the real reason I posted this was to point out the NFL's bullshit practices. So thanks for skewing this off topic and making me type so much when I've clearly had too much to drink.

[ChrisCantSkate]

its a TEAM sport, not an individual sport. what one player might think is the best might not be, thats why you have coaches. as far as the concussion, do you have any idea what the long term effects of multiple concussions is? you can be 35 and have the brain of a 85 year old. sure you may have had one and been fine the next day, but im sure you avoided, or at least you should have, any situation where you may have another one too soon. in boxing your not aloud to fight 60 days after you get knocked down the first time, 90 the next. you know why? to protect the persons health. and being a QB in the NFL, you are the #1 target for that defense to hit every time the ball is snapped until it leaves your hand. i cant believe you brought soccer into a toughness argument. i love soccer, i watch as many premireship games as i can, but the truth is they are floppers and fakers worse than the NBA. football players throughout the years have played with broken fingers, hands, arms for some of em, dislocated bones, etc. im not saying that makes them the toughest, but i'd say more than not want to play through injury, but they have their coaches looking out for the long term best interest, not what the guy feels in his heart at that moment in time. if he cant play to his 100% they why have him in and do more damage to his body when you have a backup for a reason. i dont think your concussions(i might be wrong) are nearly as severe as the ones handed out in the NFL. the mild ones go unnoticed, when your just a little dizzy and lightheaded, but when you dont know what plkanet your on, the year, your name or any of the shit that happenes when you get drilled like trent green did(im guessing you saw the hit, since you called him out for not playing next week after) when everyone thought his neck was broken, then you can give some shit about having a concussion. its a rough sport, aside from rugby, and maybe hockey, its godda be one of the hardest hitting. i dunno man it struck a nerve on me when you start ripping on football for how much of a crap sport, or not even a sport, or how they are pussies or whatever else you try and say. its pure raw coach v coach, player v player competition unlike any other sport in the world. its everything, the coaches have to call good plays at the right time, players have to play all the time. taking a play off could easliy cost you a game alot more than in most games. theres research and prep that gores into each game, you have to play different to every team, its not to be taken lightly

oh and, the only reason i brought the kung-fu up was its something i personally dislike about as much as you do football from what i've gathtered, but i keep to myself about it since other people enjoy discussing it and whatnot, with football you always jump on the moment to bring it down for god knows what reason you have... they always seem skewed and misinformed to me.

your intent was to poke into the gut of football, you know it was. look at the title of the thread, then you post legal copyright laws(which they have to draw the line somewhere or someone would just make a shit ton of money off the NFL, their marketing and not pay a penny, its called good business to protect your investment, every movie, sport, etc has something similar). then your only other statement was a shot at the sport.

[Gone]

Is the superbowl today?

[ShEaNy]

Super Bowl Today Whooooooo

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by ChrisCantSkate

its a TEAM sport, not an individual sport. what one player might think is the best might not be, thats why you have coaches. as far as the concussion, do you have any idea what the long term effects of multiple concussions is? you can be 35 and have the brain of a 85 year old. sure you may have had one and been fine the next day, but im sure you avoided, or at least you should have, any situation where you may have another one too soon. in boxing your not aloud to fight 60 days after you get knocked down the first time, 90 the next. you know why? to protect the persons health. and being a QB in the NFL, you are the #1 target for that defense to hit every time the ball is snapped until it leaves your hand. i cant believe you brought soccer into a toughness argument. i love soccer, i watch as many premireship games as i can, but the truth is they are floppers and fakers worse than the NBA. football players throughout the years have played with broken fingers, hands, arms for some of em, dislocated bones, etc. im not saying that makes them the toughest, but i'd say more than not want to play through injury, but they have their coaches looking out for the long term best interest, not what the guy feels in his heart at that moment in time. if he cant play to his 100% they why have him in and do more damage to his body when you have a backup for a reason. i dont think your concussions(i might be wrong) are nearly as severe as the ones handed out in the NFL. the mild ones go unnoticed, when your just a little dizzy and lightheaded, but when you dont know what plkanet your on, the year, your name or any of the shit that happenes when you get drilled like trent green did(im guessing you saw the hit, since you called him out for not playing next week after) when everyone thought his neck was broken, then you can give some shit about having a concussion. its a rough sport, aside from rugby, and maybe hockey, its godda be one of the hardest hitting. i dunno man it struck a nerve on me when you start ripping on football for how much of a crap sport, or not even a sport, or how they are pussies or whatever else you try and say. its pure raw coach v coach, player v player competition unlike any other sport in the world. its everything, the coaches have to call good plays at the right time, players have to play all the time. taking a play off could easliy cost you a game alot more than in most games. theres research and prep that gores into each game, you have to play different to every team, its not to be taken lightly

oh and, the only reason i brought the kung-fu up was its something i personally dislike about as much as you do football from what i've gathtered, but i keep to myself about it since other people enjoy discussing it and whatnot, with football you always jump on the moment to bring it down for god knows what reason you have... they always seem skewed and misinformed to me.

your intent was to poke into the gut of football, you know it was. look at the title of the thread, then you post legal copyright laws(which they have to draw the line somewhere or someone would just make a shit ton of money off the NFL, their marketing and not pay a penny, its called good business to protect your investment, every movie, sport, etc has something similar). then your only other statement was a shot at the sport.

Truth be told I don't mind football. I'll watch it if there's nothing else on. But it's so vastly overrated that it's almost saddest thing I've ever seen. It's like church for some of these dipshits. These assholes get paid millions of dollars to suit up in a few dozen pounds of padding and go tackle each other then whine like babies when they stub their toes. Yeah, I saw Green get hit. He's still a pussy. I'm not saying he should've been back on the field for the next play or even a week or two later, but 6 fucking weeks? Please. Try making today's football players play in the same get ups guys used when the league started (old pads, old helmets, etc.). I bet half of them would walk. Love of the game, my ass.

And really, if all I wanted to do was rip on football I could've just posted this as "fuck football". The NFL isn't football...it's the organization that oversees football. A friend sent this to me because he knows how much I hate stupid copyright issues...not because of how I feel about football. In fact I'm pretty sure I've only ripped on football once or twice on this board. I know I ripped on fantasy football once...I still contend that has to be the gayest thing ever.

[ChrisCantSkate]

instead of getting fired up over this again, i'll agree to disagree on the fact that they hit harder, do play through tougher injuries than you perceive , and have more fans, followers, and coverage

as far as them making millions, if they didnt then the owners would make billions, they get their cut of the business they bring in to the stadium and league, its just business.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by ChrisCantSkate

instead of getting fired up over this again, i'll agree to disagree on the fact that they hit harder, do play through tougher injuries than you perceive , and have more fans, followers, and coverage

as far as them making millions, if they didnt then the owners would make billions, they get their cut of the business they bring in to the stadium and league, its just business.

Oh...well...fans, followers, and coverage make a sport I guess. Please. Talk to anyone like my grandfather (who was a quaterback and kicker in high school) and ask him what he thinks of players today. Maybe they hit hard...but they're still pussies compared to what players used to go through. You think 50 years ago a single player commanded anything close to a million dollar salary? No. Now THAT'S love of the game. Knowing eventually your knees will have to be replaced but doing it anyway. Not sitting out for 3 weeks (at least) because of a sprain and praying it doesn't fuck up your $1.2 million a year contract. They're candy ass nancy boys who expect to be waited on hand and foot. Deal with it.

Why does anyone, owners included, need to make that much money? It's like a big budget movie. The actors claim to "love their craft" and then ask for $20 million a film. That jacks up prices of virtually everything else and who pays in the end? Every idiot that buys a ticket or pays for he "unrated super secret double dog dare edition" DVD. If you really love something, you won't demand a million bucks to do it. If the fans want a bigger better stadium, let them subsidise it. Why not just lower ticket prices, do away with ads, and pay the players less? It's not like people don't know that games will be played, so ads don't need to be run. And no player is worth anything near what they get paid, so that's out. So all that's left is the fans who want to see a game paying a reasonable price. Economics of the NFL is bullshit, and about as weak as this superbowl.

[ChrisCantSkate]

no fans and media dont make a sport, but they make one such as this thrive into what it is today. if the millions of viewers, ticket holders, and sponsorers didnt think it was a sport, or rather, didnt like the sport, they wouldnt put their money into it.

hate open markets, capitalism, and the demand for NFL products(tickets, clothing, etc). that is what makes this a multi-billion dollar industry. would you rather see these owners who do nothing besides front the money for a team make a billion+ dollars a year or would you rather see a player who is basically a salesman for that franchise get a proportion of what they bring into the business? highschool and college players do play for free, and the respected schools make money off ticket sales from them, but thats because its not their job. this is someones job, now regardless of what you think they deserve to get paid, there is a firm(team) out there who feels that if they can pay this guy top dollar to some to their team, they will make more money off him than what they pay him. he, "the player", is in this job to entertain and make a living doing so. high dollar bands are the exact same thing. do you think someone deserves a million dollars for writing a hit album? maybe, maybe not, they are being paid by someone who thinks they can buy up their talent and turn around and make a profit off it. every business, if its sports or not is like that, at least profit-seeking firms are.

i will say that some "love of the game" is lost through these contracts, but you know what, the good atheletes, the good team mates, the "winners" arnt. you can have all the talent in the world, but if your heart is in the wrong spot, your just not that good. look at terrel owens (TO), he might be the most dominant wide out in the league as far as speed, route running ability, catching(debatable after this season), open field running(breaking tackles and cutting ability) but he's kinda a douche. he's full of himself and thinks at the end of the day his stats are more important than the teams. guess what, he brings down every team he touches, then you have someone like payton manning, brett favre, tiki and ronde barber(who were terrible starting out, but loved the game and stuck with it to be pro-bowlers) or even coaches like tony dungee who love the game and want to have team unity, now granted payton might be the best QB in the league, but he's been on the same team, as with favre, since he was drafted, he dosnt bitch at the end of every year about contracts, teammates, dosnt point fingers, and guess what, they always end up having a decent team, and good relations with the fans/people. this is the exact same for bands, if they love their music, and are actually good and have fans, then they end up having a successful carreer, now if they can reproduce the crap that the owner wants to hear, they moght make a quick dollar, but they wont last. its all the same in the ideals and theory. the beatles, led zeppelin, the rolling stones, they all loved their music, played it, and people loved it and they made a fucking fortune, not by demanding tons of money, but by proving they deserve it through performance.

bottom line is if they were overcharging, over paying, over doing anything then they couldnt keep it up in the long run, but the truth is that in order to reach equilibrum sometimes you have to raise prices, or pay players more. you make X amount more money for the team if you win from the NFL, sponsors etc. so why would you not want to invest say, 300million to make 600million? why have every other team pay the best players 5 mil a year and you pay all your 250k, you get worse players, then you have to pay for upkeep on a staduim, all the other saleries, you wont sell tickets if your a loosing team, so you wont have a large income, then your franchise becomes crap. now if you pay the money for better players, then you have the chance of being a better team, thus making more money.

it is a business, the economics of it are relativly simple and strait forward. why let the farmer charge market price for his crop when he could sell it for less? why should a car dealership sell cars at market price when they could "love selling cars" and never make any commsion? why should i pay $20 to go watch a band perform for 1000 people(they make $20k we'll say) when it only really cost them $1000 for the effort to come out and perform? because we do follow the laws of economics. if your stadium seats 50,000 people and 100,000 people want to see them play and will pay $20, but 50,000 will see them play for $35, then why go below the demand for the product(a ticket to the game) and operate below potential? if the team makes more money, then they can reinvest it back into the team to, hopefully, make them better.

every successful industry follows the laws of economics, its tried and tested. to think its not true, or you can do it another way would be wrong, and bad business. it costs ALOT of money to run a team, the players salaries is not the only cost, and wouldnt really change a whole lot if them made half of what they do now.

its an equilibruim we have reached with their pay, its not only their talent, but they also are now a spotlight person that everyone recognizes, they give up living a normal life and are compensated for it. think its unfair? go train and become a pro-athelete. wait, its not that easy, it takes talent not everyone has? what then there would be a demand for their talent. but why? oh cause people will pay shit tons of money to see them, well then we better jump on this and sign them, ahh damn someone else has this idea too and will pay them more to have the better team, well we better offer them more... see thats how fast it starts. they have a salary cap so teams cant spend billions on payroll, and have to work within a framework to keep competition fair.

[GT40FIED]

That sounds a lot more like an argument for rudamentary free market than for the NFL. I'm not saying they can't do it and that people won't pay...I'm saying they shouldn't do it and that people shouldn't pay (at least not what they're currently being charged). Why not pass some of that "love" onto the fans in the form of lower ticket prices, cheaper merchandise of the same quality, etc. etc. It's hypocracy, pure and simple. If you really love something, you don't make outrageous demands to do it. I don't blame the players for that, I blame the league. Once they started offering players too much money then every asshole with a bloated ego started demanding the same. And sure, it's a job like any other, but I'm willing to bet that even the lowest paid players makes well into the 6 figures.

You mentioned, Chris, that you play regularly. Do you demand people pay you outrageous sums of money to do it? No...because, I can only assume, you enjoy the game. Should those guys play like you for free? No. But ask yourself if someone's going to feel the bite of being paid...say...$1M a year versus even...say...$600K per year. It's like that episode of South Park where they make fun of copyright enfringement. I don't care if Owens can't afford a new gold plated shark bar. Or another Bentley. Or another 12,000 sq. ft. house.

All I'm really saying is that people need to assess their priorities. For fuck's sake, tickets to the superbowl this year were selling upwards of $5K (maybe more...that's the highest I saw). Was that game worth $5K? Or $3K? Or even $1K? Hell...I watched it on TV for free and felt kinda ripped off. A good game, it was not.

[ChrisCantSkate]

you present your theories like fact, it makes it real hard to debate non-fact. you talk about how people feel and what you think should be done, but wont give a solid reason. do i think the game was worth 5k to see? dosnt matter, somenoe did, and they paid that price. if they didnt want to , they wouldnt have, no one forced them to pay. if you have a better alternative for your money, then you usually take it. you say these guys would walk if they had to play like the old timers of the past, well, we have no idea about that, its all speculation, and we dont know if the old timers would play in this league now a days, theymight not even have the talent, let alone the balls to step into some of these hits. ive been watching past games from the 50's 60's and 70's, and as they are great competition, they dont have the speed or power todays athelete does. my dads roommate was on a Notre dame championship team of the 60's, and we got in a talk about this, and even though he was one of the stronger linebackers, he even said guys today, even on the college level are far beyond what they had to deal with.

i still cant believe you are giving trent green shit, that was one of the hardest hits ive seen on a QB, and to think you can come back the next week after a brain injury, you just dont know the effects of a consussion on the brain. remeber they have the state of the art best medical teams working on them, with doctors who are experienced in sports injuries. look at muhamid ali if you think consussions dont do any dmg, or how about the 45-50 year olds who now have altizmers(SP?) because their brain got bashed around in their skull. you just cant accept fact sometimes dude

as far as their pay, look, they are a national entertainer, they get paid the kind of money anyone does who is in this kind of spotlight, and they get more shit than any actor or musician. they are out their risking their career every day they play, cause their contracts can be killed with a single injury. their job security sucks, and they are compensated for it.

i dont get paid(obviously) but if someone would pay me i would take it in a heartbeat. what kind of person would not want to get paid to do something they love? im sorry for dragging this on but i cant let it just go when you say off the well shit like that.

if any of this was wrong, it would work its self out, the money would disapear, the fans would stop caring, life would move on.

oh name me one championship team with someone on their team who was a faker, cry baby pussy? and actually mattered to that teams success. you cant, because the winners still love the game

[GT40FIED]

Man...what the hell? "You present your theories like fact". Leave it alone. I present my theories like opinions. Deal with it.

And yes, Trent Green is still a fucking pussy. I've taken harder hits to the head than that and I've seen other people take WAY harder hits than that. Not in football...because if it was football then my season would be over. During the course of martial arts training and day to day life, I've received and seen harder hits than that by people who just walked it off. Sure, you're dazed afterwards and maybe you get a friend to drive you home. But you get up the next day and do it all again. You don't whine like some bitch and sit out for 6 weeks then come back in worse shape than you were before. If you're that bad off, just quite. Give up your multi-million dollar contract and quite. Why make your team lose just because you have a raging case of vaginitis? Again, love of the game my ass. More like love of the money. And Herm Edwards gets just as much blame for putting limp dick sissy boy Green back in when we had a back up QB that was doing better than Green before his injury.

Oh no...I forgot they're entertainers which means they MUST be paid an inexcusable amount of money. My bad. See...I was stuck in that whole "business ethics" mode. It's clear that football players do not possess this mode, so perhaps it's a moot point. Entertainers or not they need to have the guts to step up and tell everyone they're not worth that much. Look at a guy like..say...Dan Marino. He got paid way too much top lay the game and then when his career was "over", someone decided to pay him way too much to broadcast the games. So where does it stop?

[Wren57]

Is there ANYTHING you like outside of your house and your little world Steve? Seriously, in the years that I've been a member here, all I ever see you post is "Fuck ________" or "I hate _______". Damn, man, lighten up and enjoy life. Are you that bitter that you were born or what's the deal man?

[GT40FIED]

That's just a stupid question Wren. And by "stupid", I mean the kind of dumb that should be studied by sceintists. If I didn't like something, why would I include it in "my world" (implying I lead some sort of cloistered life...a cunning strategy surely straight from Sun Tsu's Art Of War ). Just because other people are too chickenshit to voice their opinions doesn't mean everyone should keep their mouth shut. "Well I don't post in threads about this thing you like". So what? Go right ahead. Then again, unlike you guys, I don't usually get sand all up in my vagina just because you don't like something that I enjoy ("usually" being the operative word there). And really, this went WAY off topic and I had nothing to do with that (for once). My original post was principally about the NFL's bullshit enforcement of ridiculous copyright laws. I throw in one line of my own opinion and it becomes all of this. Don't like it? Tought shit. Deal with it or get fucked.

[Wren57]

[ChrisCantSkate]

heh, the copyright laws make 100% sense which is why i didn't even go into it. why should they spend millions, no billions of dollars to have this league, then have some joe shmoe charge $5 a head to come to his bar/house/restaurant/whatever and charge money to watch a game he does not own, and furthermore does not give you money for in return for using your property? you must draw a legal line somewhere, otherwise whats stopping someone from renting an arena out? nothing. you have to remember its not that thye are trying to stop just the people with 55' tv's from doing this, its anyone with a 55' or larger, that include 8 ft. projections, or a 20ft jumbotron. you cant be a stadium owner and sell tickets to your empty stadium and broadcast the superbowl. if there were no copyright laws what would be anyones incentive to try and make anything unique? this is day one of law and economics we're talking here, not in depth copyright infringement cases.

[GT40FIED]

Yes...and this is why we should prevent church groups and other assemblies from putting together any sort of party for the superbowl for any reason whatsoever (if that sounds stupid when I saying it, just think how stupid it is when you think it). I'm not saying that people looking to profit from an event by violating copyright laws shouldn't be stopped...but rather that the laws clearly relfect that. Obviously some greedy dipshit who wants to rent out an arena and cast the thing on a jumbotron while charging folks is out of line...but the same law shouldn't apply to the guy with a big screen who has a big house party. And the fact that the NFL opted to shut down at least one CHURCH gathering is just that much more pathetic. What's wrong with a bunch of people who would've watched the game anyway watching it together where there is no profit being made? Nobody gets hurt, so why does the NFL have their satin lace panties in a twist? I, of course, assume they wear satin lace panties because they are a bunch of pussies the likes of which this world has ever known. You know, the kind of small minded twats who hide behind a "macho" game in which players constantly grab each other's asses for the most pedestrian of tasks to mask the inadequate size of their genitalia and/or their homoerotic tendencies. That's right...everyone in the NFL who has every grabbed another guy's ass after a play is gay. There...I said it. A simple handshake wouldn't do. Nooooo...you've gotta pinch the other guy's ass. That's totally and absolutely hetero.

[ChrisCantSkate]

your right in that example as far as moral views on it, the problem is its very hard to draw the line to say who can do what and who cant. i agree with thinking that a church should be able, especially in Indianapolis, to show the game to its people, but then what if its a large convention center, or something similar in size? are we just gonna give churches a pass because they are churches? i think even you would say no to that. then the NFL is OKing it for religous groups but not everyone else. But if we say ok to that then why does the NFL charge some places(through the sport packages, NFL network and rights to hang or display their logos, etc., the ones who pay for the rights to show all the games, all the time, to see any and every game, to build your sunday business around showing these sports games, but when its time for the biggest game, when you would draw the biggest crowd in your sports bar for instance, when you could fill the place and make a good buck, some dude rents out a building and dosnt necessarily sell anything, but takes your customers right form under your nose. i dont know man, even if you dont agree with it, thats the reasoning, at least the best i can see it, for the NFL to protect its investment. when your trying to write copyright policy for anything, you cant look at the exceptions and then try building it around there, because that will create loopholes that will be 10x harder to fill down the road after you've pissed everyone off, but the truth is, at the end of the day, i highly doubt anyone actually got in trouble for this. they are trying to protect against the worst case senerio, not lookup up everyone who bought a 55"+ TV from best buy and counting cars in their driveways. when your doing something for your business that could potentially cost you tons of money, or loss of your sponsors or subscribers(this i think would go more to the reg season games not in the areas market, cause the superbowl is "free" since its on network TV) you have to think with your head and not your heart. sure personally i'd love it to be free and have all 16 games on TV every week, but thats cause im a fan, and have no stakes in the company. i dont have to pay their bills, their salaries etc.. if i was their lawyer trying to not rape the people of their money, but to keep it in check so fans and 3rd party non-affiliates arnt making money off us and not paying due compensation, then you have to set the bar somewhere. this is where they chose from their research and whatnot. makes sense to me if you had to pick some guidelines

[GT40FIED]

But see...I think that a SANE copyright law would make special provisions for people who are obviously looking to make money off of the game and leave the average folks who just want to get together (with no money involved) out of it. I mean really...who's it hurting if people get together for a party and no money changes hands? Sure, it's probably hard to figure out who is doing it and who isn't, but I would think that amount of people charging money for a house party is pretty small. If someone is renting out large venues and charging, that's easy enough to figure out. Then again, that's no different than a sports bar. I don't know if sports bars pay out some sort of royalties to respective leagues to show their games, but if they don't then why not shut them all down under copyright violation procedures? I think the NFL and MLB's idea of copyrights is just absolutely insane. Ever listen to their little legal notes during the game? It includes "any descriptions or accounts of the game". What the fuck? That means I can't even tell you about a play afterwards without violating copyright laws. That's absolutely absurd. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to copyright what is (sort of) their property, but the way they've set it up is tantamount to waving a middle finger at a whole lot of people and serves little or no purpose other than to keep way too much money in a few people's pockets.

[ChrisCantSkate]

they arnt strictly enforced rules, they are just there in case. go find me some cases where someone got fined for anything minor like your talking about. you have to cover your ass when someone could take complete advantage of your property

[GT40FIED]

Oh I totally agree...but their covering stuff that is is basically given away for free (well...much of it anyway). I mean if they broadcast a game on network TV where anyone can watch, why include a clause preventing me from even discussing it? I could see the point in preventing people from broadcasting things without consent, but they went way too vague. Then again by the time they read off the disclaimers most people are probably too drunk to care or (if you're me) asleep in front of the TV.

[ChrisCantSkate]

they are all a bunch of rules that arnt enforced on the mirco level. they are trying, at least im assuming, to keep people from starting their own company to cover the games. if they are public property(no copyright restrictions on it) then i could take those games, rebroadcast them, sell advertisment for it, run my own sportscenter type program and do everything espn pays to be able to do, but for free. they arnt after the guys standing around the watercooler talking about last nights game, but if you openly allow that which im not even sure applys to them, but for the sake of your argument i wont question it, then you open loopholes for other things to happen. its just stopping a problem before it starts, or hell, maybe correcting one from a while back, i dont know

[GT40FIED]

Well...ok, forget economics for a second. Think about ethics. Sure, without those laws people could rebroadcast games and advertise and do Sportscenter-type shows, but who is that really hurting? The NFL has already made it's money at that point. They've already gotten paid for advertising (long before any game ever airs) and they're certainly not making money off of the broadcast itself since they do most of them on network television (who has already paid them a small fortune for the rights to do so). So if anyone has a right to complain it'd be the networks, no? I mean, they're paying out the ass for the NFL's "property" and if someone can come along and do it for less or free then they get screwed, not the NFL. And really, how can the NFL possibly call a game "property". They can own rights to it's broadcast, but the second after opening kick off they have no say in what happens which sort of voids any intellectual copyright laws. Since that's pretty much what they're standing on, how do they get away with such bullshit?

[ChrisCantSkate]

yes, but the NFL has to protect its investors or they wont invest. you cant really forget the economics of it because that is the driving force behind these rules. and they are not making 100% profit off this, its a huge company that has to pay out alot of money. they dont need every cent, but they need alot of it

also for ethics, is it ethical for someone to steal their programing without any compensation?

[GT40FIED]

Who's stealing it? Me? You? Sure, maybe the asshole who decides he wants to charge people to see it when he's not offering anything in return...but I think I covered that already. It's hard to offer up the idea of "stealing" when they broadcast on networks anyone can access. It's a lot like recording a TV show you like, burning it to DVD, and then watching it later but being sued for infringement. They aired the thing without asking for money so why bust your balls for making a personal copy with no intent of resale? And again, why are sprots bars immune from this rule? They make money by the truckload on game days and especially super bowls, so unless they pay some soprt of royalties (which they might...I don't know or care), shouldn't they be fined big time for profiting off of games?