.:HSTuners::

nonovurbizniz · 08-09-2003, 03:26 AM

Ok... it's kinda long but not too bad... needless to say (after reading it) it didn't come off too well with my teacher... It's based on Merton's "the self-fulfilling prophecy"... SORT OF.

Sorry for the poor formatting I only had it in notepad

In my reading of Merton’s “The self-fulfilling
Prophecy”, I found myself agreeing with many points,
and disagreeing with others. This same process occurs
every time I read scholarly texts; I re-evaluate my
opinion, I take the writers opinion in to
consideration; however, my opinion remains largely
unchanged. This is not just the case with Merton’s
paper, but quite simply, every piece of scholarly
writing I have ever read. The purpose of these types
of writings and in fact all writing; (including this
writer’s) is to illuminate a problem amongst society
and explain it to people who are not capable of
intellectualizing it. The problem that our ancestors
where presented with is much like our own; the people
who are causing the lack of understanding, or lack of
progress, don’t read about, or discuss these problems;
because they don’t see the problem. This is an affect
both Merton’s, and many other theologian’s arguments
before him. That “If men define situations as real,
they are real in their consequences,” (Thomas, as
quoted by Merton [P.29]). This is to say a truth
perceived is no less true than one proven
scientifically. So; if the problem is caused by people
who will not be told otherwise; than what purpose does
generations and generations of writing accomplish
other than gradual the de-forestation of the world. It
is in this reader/writers opinion that the soul aim of
academic writing will never be achieved. That those
who read are most likely already enlightened to some
degree; that those who disagree won’t change their
opinion; and through its use of metaphor and example
it merely provides more specific examples to be
refuted, instead of focusing on the “real” problem.
In my life I have completed maybe five books of one
hundred, which I have read anywhere from ten to ninety
percent of. In spite of this, I perceive myself as a
very intelligent person. I attribute this to my
constant examination of my surroundings and
discussions. This is the same resource which all
theologians use to express their ideas, their mind.
Take Merton, he was in an era boiling over in social
turmoil. He examined the situations, which surround
him; based on this he formulates an opinion or thesis.
Just like I am as I type at my keyboard. The problem
with academic or analytical writing is, everyone who
reads it is educated. Meaning they enter into the
reading with an opinion. In the case of Merton, his
reader; given the atmosphere of the time; was almost
indefinitely a proponent. It is the politicians and
the uneducated that cause the problems and prevent
changes. Those who cling to an old-world mentality in
order to maintain their own relevance to society.
These are people who are scared of change and have
conditioned themselves to believe what they believe
regardless of how large the opposition. This may not
be “…a particularly popular opinion.”(P.34); but, “The
appeal to education as a cure all for the most varied
social problem is...” “…illusory.”(P.34). Tricky
quoting or essentially diffusing Merton’s “stock” to a
“bouillon cube”. I believe the later. Much like a
paranoiac “One [can] not expect a [racist] to abandon
his hard-won distortions and dilusions upon [reading
about how] they are all together groundless.” (P.34).
No matter how strong Merton’s argument is, by his own
admission, he can not change their opinion through
words alone.
Furthermore, the more in-depth his argument, the more
ammunition he gives his opponents, and the more likely
he is to loose his proponents. After all, “It is all
to human to seize upon every bit of evidence on the
contrary.” (P.41). Someone once said “give me a poll
and I’ll give you ten that disagree.” This is the same
with studies, writings, and historical examples. While
reading Merton’s paper, one could easily refute any of
his examples. For example, one might state that the
fall of the “Last National Bank” was indeed not caused
by the belief that it would fall but instead, by the
lack of the later instated FDIC. Furthermore, the
decline in bank operation suspensions after the FDIC
was not an effect of societies comfort with the idea
of a federally funded banking support system, but
instead the result of a well planned and executed
government program. This stance is both feasible and
supportable through historic fact. This alone could be
responsible for innumerable people to have lost faith
in Merton’s opinion, and in turn his opinion. Once
someone has viewed an author as incapable of
interpreting or relaying the facts his opinion
argument and paper are worthless. People interpret
things as they please. They may see themselves as
“firm” while another person may see them as
“obstinate” or “pigheaded”. The point is that the more
specific one gets with their argument the more points
his opposition has to refute. A papers examples,
parables, and metaphors, are it’s legs. They must be
strong in order to support the thesis. If they are
weak which is almost always the case, they have no
chance of changing the opposition’s beliefs. Martin
Luther King Jr. may have seen over the mountaintop;
but his nirvana was James Earl Ray’s purgatory. For
those whose fears drive them to hate, there is nothing
too established to argue. I once heard a man actually
say that the Holocaust was over blown and that in fact
only a few thousand Jews actually died. This complete
dismissal of historical truth as well as evidence as
to how far the conditioned will follow a comforting
belief in order to maintain their own importance.
This illuminates the flaw with Merton and most
scholarly writers. If the foundational elements of
“moral alchemy” need not even be used to refute his
point then what chance does a message have. When
people need not resort to their last defense they are
left feeling confident. Confidence in your belief
gives you no compulsion to re-evaluate your stance.
With this in mind what chance could Merton have
thought his paper had of changing the views of others?

This lack of interaction between writer and reader is
the damnation of all scholarly writing. Those who
agree need not read something with which they already
agree. Those who disagree will not be swayed, and if
given the opportunity of a poor example they may even
be left with a stronger belief. Hence, writing as well
as reading scholarly material which examines a problem
or ill of society, is essentially a waste of both
reader and writers time. If the same effort and time
was spent on furthering their cause through the use of
petition, protest, and involvement with state and
federal government, there would be much more change.
After all “Moral sentiments no doubt help to motivate
efforts for change, but they are no substitute
for…”(P.45)”…achieving the objective,”(P.45). In
today’s society we all generally agree on a lot of
things. The government is corrupt (to one degree or
another). People’s inequalities are more a function of
genetics than race or religion, and the human race is
slowly destroying the planet (Slow is a relative term,
in the big picture we’re killing the earth faster than
any naturally occurring event in it’s history). Even
though at least 51 percent of our country agree, there
is no change. Thirty years later, Martin Luther King’s
dream is lost in an Alabama hotel room. Change in our
society comes slow, and it is in my opinion that
writing or reading about a problem has little or no
effect. It is those who have the courage to stand up
and fight for their opinion, which truly change
things.

Grip72 · 08-09-2003, 03:54 AM

uhm...ok, i read like maybe 10 lines....why did you even post this? I was lost in the first 10 lines man! Made NO sense to me

nonovurbizniz · 08-09-2003, 11:48 AM

well... I guess you just proved it's validity....

It's about how scholorly reading and writing are essentially useless...

BECAUSE..

people smart enough to read them already probobly agree... while those who don't probobly won't understand...

I posted it becasue there used to be a thread with long borring write ups on stuff... SO I put my long boring write up... up.

08-10-2003, 01:24 AM

ummm yeah

Duckydos · 08-10-2003, 01:28 AM

It's not that I do not understand, it's that I do not care to read it at 3am. Cliff notes?

nonovurbizniz · 08-10-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz

It's about how scholorly reading and writing are essentially useless...

BECAUSE..

people smart enough to read them already probobly agree... while those who don't probobly won't understand...

nonovurbizniz · 08-10-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shot 2 Hel
ummm yeah

]

Sorry next time I'll post pics of some girls so you can rub one out and be happy...

Didn't mean to start anyone thinking...

Duckydos · 08-10-2003, 12:04 PM

HAHA. You're such a tool. Here's how this thread has gone so far:

1) nonovurbizniz posts an essay that he's apparently proud of.

2) General public reads it and go "eh".

3) nonovurbizniz explains that he is actually smarter then everyone else, and they when they said "eh" they actually meant "I'm too dumb"

4) Ducky say's he doesn't care about the essay.

5) nonovurbizniz quotes himself, proving that he's an ass.

6) Ducky adds nonovurbizniz to his 'People I don't like' list

Any questions?
-Ducky

08-10-2003, 01:02 PM

its not that i didnt understand the thread, I'm just wondering why the **** you would post a thread of a paper you wrote who the hell knows how long ago, about why you dont like scholarly writings. What purpose does it serve? NONE. So i ask you, was this just some petty attempt to try and prove that you are smarter than everyone else on the board?

Wren57 · 08-10-2003, 01:10 PM

oh nonovurbizniz you are so smart, I wish I could be like you. maybe one day...

it is a well-written essay which makes sense, I just don't see why you felt the need to post it on here, then judge people here against it simply because they don't care enough to read it...

nonovurbizniz · 08-10-2003, 04:29 PM

The only ones being sensitive here are you guys....

I wasn't tying to be a dick (anymore than normal (read sig) or prove anything...

I thought it was an interesting point that's all..

The reason I quoted myself is because you (ducky) asked for cliff notes...which I had already put on so I didn't bother to re-type it...

the cliff notes are what I quoted...

The first one to accord 17 was a joke...

Shot2hell again was a joke... if he did read it and didn't like it I would prefer reasons instead of "eh" whatever that means...

AND AGAIN...

the reason I posted it was a while ago there was a sticky full of long boring reads... It's not hear and I didn't feel like searching for it...

So I posted it... (oh and it was just because I had just run across it while cleaning up my "my documents" folder...).

*AzCivic* · 08-10-2003, 04:37 PM

aaaaahhahahahahaha you all are too funny.

Good essay, very original thinking.

Kyle · 08-10-2003, 07:39 PM

the parts that i read seamed ok...after a night of drinking...it's not the kind of readin i wish to do...
and wtf is wrong with all you people...he posts an essay...and you all start to talk shit?...****ing idiots.
It's the off topic forum...whatever anyone wants to post here...they can

V8killimports · 08-11-2003, 02:34 AM

Well good essay.. but I feel sorry for him for the fact that he posts it here looking for some kinda attention... oh well.. you get a gold star.

nonovurbizniz · 08-11-2003, 09:43 PM

I'm not looking for anykind of attention...

If I wanted to look cool or get attention on a car site I'd do a write up about cars... of something I've done to mine etc...

I just stumbled across it and I remembered thinking it was an interesting point... (I didn't even read it myself... it's too long.)

And also I never thought of it as all that great... it's too wordy and repetitive... I just thought the theme was good...

thanks for all the positive feedback and any negative (thoughtful) is welcome as well...

08-09-2003, 03:26 AM	#1
nonovurbizniz Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ECUSA Age: 47 Posts: 2,693	Something I wrote for school a while back... Ok... it's kinda long but not too bad... needless to say (after reading it) it didn't come off too well with my teacher... It's based on Merton's "the self-fulfilling prophecy"... SORT OF. Sorry for the poor formatting I only had it in notepad In my reading of Merton’s “The self-fulfilling Prophecy”, I found myself agreeing with many points, and disagreeing with others. This same process occurs every time I read scholarly texts; I re-evaluate my opinion, I take the writers opinion in to consideration; however, my opinion remains largely unchanged. This is not just the case with Merton’s paper, but quite simply, every piece of scholarly writing I have ever read. The purpose of these types of writings and in fact all writing; (including this writer’s) is to illuminate a problem amongst society and explain it to people who are not capable of intellectualizing it. The problem that our ancestors where presented with is much like our own; the people who are causing the lack of understanding, or lack of progress, don’t read about, or discuss these problems; because they don’t see the problem. This is an affect both Merton’s, and many other theologian’s arguments before him. That “If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences,” (Thomas, as quoted by Merton [P.29]). This is to say a truth perceived is no less true than one proven scientifically. So; if the problem is caused by people who will not be told otherwise; than what purpose does generations and generations of writing accomplish other than gradual the de-forestation of the world. It is in this reader/writers opinion that the soul aim of academic writing will never be achieved. That those who read are most likely already enlightened to some degree; that those who disagree won’t change their opinion; and through its use of metaphor and example it merely provides more specific examples to be refuted, instead of focusing on the “real” problem. In my life I have completed maybe five books of one hundred, which I have read anywhere from ten to ninety percent of. In spite of this, I perceive myself as a very intelligent person. I attribute this to my constant examination of my surroundings and discussions. This is the same resource which all theologians use to express their ideas, their mind. Take Merton, he was in an era boiling over in social turmoil. He examined the situations, which surround him; based on this he formulates an opinion or thesis. Just like I am as I type at my keyboard. The problem with academic or analytical writing is, everyone who reads it is educated. Meaning they enter into the reading with an opinion. In the case of Merton, his reader; given the atmosphere of the time; was almost indefinitely a proponent. It is the politicians and the uneducated that cause the problems and prevent changes. Those who cling to an old-world mentality in order to maintain their own relevance to society. These are people who are scared of change and have conditioned themselves to believe what they believe regardless of how large the opposition. This may not be “…a particularly popular opinion.”(P.34); but, “The appeal to education as a cure all for the most varied social problem is...” “…illusory.”(P.34). Tricky quoting or essentially diffusing Merton’s “stock” to a “bouillon cube”. I believe the later. Much like a paranoiac “One [can] not expect a [racist] to abandon his hard-won distortions and dilusions upon [reading about how] they are all together groundless.” (P.34). No matter how strong Merton’s argument is, by his own admission, he can not change their opinion through words alone. Furthermore, the more in-depth his argument, the more ammunition he gives his opponents, and the more likely he is to loose his proponents. After all, “It is all to human to seize upon every bit of evidence on the contrary.” (P.41). Someone once said “give me a poll and I’ll give you ten that disagree.” This is the same with studies, writings, and historical examples. While reading Merton’s paper, one could easily refute any of his examples. For example, one might state that the fall of the “Last National Bank” was indeed not caused by the belief that it would fall but instead, by the lack of the later instated FDIC. Furthermore, the decline in bank operation suspensions after the FDIC was not an effect of societies comfort with the idea of a federally funded banking support system, but instead the result of a well planned and executed government program. This stance is both feasible and supportable through historic fact. This alone could be responsible for innumerable people to have lost faith in Merton’s opinion, and in turn his opinion. Once someone has viewed an author as incapable of interpreting or relaying the facts his opinion argument and paper are worthless. People interpret things as they please. They may see themselves as “firm” while another person may see them as “obstinate” or “pigheaded”. The point is that the more specific one gets with their argument the more points his opposition has to refute. A papers examples, parables, and metaphors, are it’s legs. They must be strong in order to support the thesis. If they are weak which is almost always the case, they have no chance of changing the opposition’s beliefs. Martin Luther King Jr. may have seen over the mountaintop; but his nirvana was James Earl Ray’s purgatory. For those whose fears drive them to hate, there is nothing too established to argue. I once heard a man actually say that the Holocaust was over blown and that in fact only a few thousand Jews actually died. This complete dismissal of historical truth as well as evidence as to how far the conditioned will follow a comforting belief in order to maintain their own importance. This illuminates the flaw with Merton and most scholarly writers. If the foundational elements of “moral alchemy” need not even be used to refute his point then what chance does a message have. When people need not resort to their last defense they are left feeling confident. Confidence in your belief gives you no compulsion to re-evaluate your stance. With this in mind what chance could Merton have thought his paper had of changing the views of others? This lack of interaction between writer and reader is the damnation of all scholarly writing. Those who agree need not read something with which they already agree. Those who disagree will not be swayed, and if given the opportunity of a poor example they may even be left with a stronger belief. Hence, writing as well as reading scholarly material which examines a problem or ill of society, is essentially a waste of both reader and writers time. If the same effort and time was spent on furthering their cause through the use of petition, protest, and involvement with state and federal government, there would be much more change. After all “Moral sentiments no doubt help to motivate efforts for change, but they are no substitute for…”(P.45)”…achieving the objective,”(P.45). In today’s society we all generally agree on a lot of things. The government is corrupt (to one degree or another). People’s inequalities are more a function of genetics than race or religion, and the human race is slowly destroying the planet (Slow is a relative term, in the big picture we’re killing the earth faster than any naturally occurring event in it’s history). Even though at least 51 percent of our country agree, there is no change. Thirty years later, Martin Luther King’s dream is lost in an Alabama hotel room. Change in our society comes slow, and it is in my opinion that writing or reading about a problem has little or no effect. It is those who have the courage to stand up and fight for their opinion, which truly change things. __________________ I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK...

08-09-2003, 11:48 AM	#3
nonovurbizniz Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ECUSA Age: 47 Posts: 2,693	well... I guess you just proved it's validity.... It's about how scholorly reading and writing are essentially useless... BECAUSE.. people smart enough to read them already probobly agree... while those who don't probobly won't understand... I posted it becasue there used to be a thread with long borring write ups on stuff... SO I put my long boring write up... up. __________________ I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK...

08-10-2003, 01:28 AM	#5
Duckydos Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 40 Posts: 1,048	It's not that I do not understand, it's that I do not care to read it at 3am. Cliff notes? __________________ Had an Accord. Then I had something European. Now I have an SCCA Solo-II monster!

08-10-2003, 12:04 PM	#8
Duckydos Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 40 Posts: 1,048	HAHA. You're such a tool. Here's how this thread has gone so far: 1) nonovurbizniz posts an essay that he's apparently proud of. 2) General public reads it and go "eh". 3) nonovurbizniz explains that he is actually smarter then everyone else, and they when they said "eh" they actually meant "I'm too dumb" 4) Ducky say's he doesn't care about the essay. 5) nonovurbizniz quotes himself, proving that he's an ass. 6) Ducky adds nonovurbizniz to his 'People I don't like' list Any questions? -Ducky __________________ Had an Accord. Then I had something European. Now I have an SCCA Solo-II monster!

08-10-2003, 01:10 PM	#10
Wren57 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Age: 39 Posts: 2,856	oh nonovurbizniz you are so smart, I wish I could be like you. maybe one day... it is a well-written essay which makes sense, I just don't see why you felt the need to post it on here, then judge people here against it simply because they don't care enough to read it... __________________ yeah, its that big

08-09-2003, 03:54 AM	#2
Grip72 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Calgary, AB Canada Age: 40 Posts: 2,962	uhm...ok, i read like maybe 10 lines....why did you even post this? I was lost in the first 10 lines man! Made NO sense to me

08-10-2003, 01:02 PM	#9
Shot 2 Hel Posts: n/a	its not that i didnt understand the thread, I'm just wondering why the **** you would post a thread of a paper you wrote who the hell knows how long ago, about why you dont like scholarly writings. What purpose does it serve? NONE. So i ask you, was this just some petty attempt to try and prove that you are smarter than everyone else on the board?

08-10-2003, 04:29 PM	#11
nonovurbizniz Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ECUSA Age: 47 Posts: 2,693	The only ones being sensitive here are you guys.... I wasn't tying to be a dick (anymore than normal (read sig) or prove anything... I thought it was an interesting point that's all.. The reason I quoted myself is because you (ducky) asked for cliff notes...which I had already put on so I didn't bother to re-type it... the cliff notes are what I quoted... The first one to accord 17 was a joke... Shot2hell again was a joke... if he did read it and didn't like it I would prefer reasons instead of "eh" whatever that means... AND AGAIN... the reason I posted it was a while ago there was a sticky full of long boring reads... It's not hear and I didn't feel like searching for it... So I posted it... (oh and it was just because I had just run across it while cleaning up my "my documents" folder...). __________________ I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK...

08-10-2003, 04:37 PM	#12
AzCivic Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Az Age: 43 Posts: 3,804	aaaaahhahahahahaha you all are too funny. Good essay, very original thinking.

08-10-2003, 07:39 PM	#13
Kyle elyK Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Braunfels, TX Age: 38 Posts: 3,390	the parts that i read seamed ok...after a night of drinking...it's not the kind of readin i wish to do... and wtf is wrong with all you people...he posts an essay...and you all start to talk shit?...****ing idiots. It's the off topic forum...whatever anyone wants to post here...they can __________________ IGNORE THE FACTS EXPLORE THE TRUTH

08-11-2003, 02:34 AM	#14
V8killimports Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Beale AFB, CA Posts: 1,377	Well good essay.. but I feel sorry for him for the fact that he posts it here looking for some kinda attention... oh well.. you get a gold star.

08-11-2003, 09:43 PM	#15
nonovurbizniz Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ECUSA Age: 47 Posts: 2,693	I'm not looking for anykind of attention... If I wanted to look cool or get attention on a car site I'd do a write up about cars... of something I've done to mine etc... I just stumbled across it and I remembered thinking it was an interesting point... (I didn't even read it myself... it's too long.) And also I never thought of it as all that great... it's too wordy and repetitive... I just thought the theme was good... thanks for all the positive feedback and any negative (thoughtful) is welcome as well... __________________ I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK...

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