Built F series motors

Who has one? I'm looking for rods and high compression pistons for my F23A1 and am not having too much luck. Any suggestions from those who know.

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Here is a place to start:

http://www.crower.com/honda.shtml

What is your goal with your car? Are you going all motor?

250 HP at the wheel, all-Motor, on pump gas.

I really want to get the Endyn Roller Wave pistons. they are so well designed and detonation resistant, That I'm sure I could run a 12.5:1 CR with little problem. I've been told that there is little chance of me getting them due to the lack of demand. :(

Everyone else is asking for an arm and a leg for custom parts. No other honda even uses the same size valves, So those are custom too.

I'm willing to spend the $$$ for all-motor, I know it's expensive, but I'm starting to feel like the old fool and his money are soon parted saying. Arias does offer F23 pistons off the shelf, but they are low compression deals, not what I want. I'll call them and see what they can do.

OH yeah, can I use H22/H23 valve springs and retainers?

I'm not trying to knock you, but with the money you are going to spend on this setup, you might as well just swap a Prelude engine into your car and build it. Your goal will be a lot more acheivable due to the surplus of parts hitting the market for the H22a. An H22a with Crower stage III cams, Type S pistons, and head work will get you moving pretty quickly.

tell me something I don't already know.

I like a challenge and I want to be different:p Not to mention bragging rights

Not to be an asshole, but I'm so sick of hearing that. If you can't help me, don't say anything at all. I'm sure that people who build D series ran into the same problems at first too - "why not just swap a b16 in"

like I said, not trying to be an asshole. peace.

I figure I'll spend at least $3000 on a swap plus whatever I spend on pistons, rods, etc, but probably another 3grand easy. If I'm gonna be into a motor for $6000+, I figure i'd rather put that into the motor, not spend it on the motor itself.

Besides, I can get a spare F series motor for next to nothing, build it on a stand, and drop it into my daily driver in a day, with no problems. try that with a H22 swap. since there are so few existing 6th gen accords with swaps, it's totally uncharted water. I know that there are going to be problems with a swap, and there will be nobody I can ask for help. Oh yeah, there is the immobilizer issue too.

Well you are being an asshole about it. I was trying to offer you my opinion. Now your going to hear what I really think. Your engine sucks. It has decent torque but only 150 hp. on a 3000lb car. The reason everyone tells you to get a Prelude engine is because your engine has almost no aftermarket backing. That is the reason I told you to get a Prelude engine. Even fully built your stock engine will be lucky to put 170-190 to the wheels whereas with a Prelude engine you would have 170+ after I/H/E. There are almost no companies that offer internals for your engine, and if they do it is probably for forced induction. The reason I told you Prelude engine is because you can get a decent one for $2400 and then have it swapped into your car at almost any shop for $800-$1000. That puts you at about $3500 out the door. In Orlando there is a guy with a 99 EX Accord with a 98 Prelude Engine in it. He just added a supercharger and is now running 13's. So a Prelude swap is possible and very feasible. Your car weighs in at a hefty 3020. That is a little heavier than my car, with a Prelude engine you would be able to run low 15's or high 14's. Your engine in your car now is a 2.3 liter. It is the same basic design as the 2.3 H23a in the Si Prelude. My advice to you is if you want to keep your engine than build the internals and then go Turbo. The H23a was great for forced induction because of the lower compression. If you want to build you engine than I can respect that, just don't ever think you are going to acheive 250 to the wheels, that is a little out of your league. So when people give you their advise maybe you should calm the Fu*k down and just thank them for it. Peace.

[2ndGenTeg]

Hate to break it to ya, but you'll never hit 250 WHP all motor on an F23. Sorry. Simply not physically possible.

The best of the best DD B18Cs are putting out 220-240 WHP, and they have some huge advantages over you:

1. DOHC- as we all know, allows individual tuning of the intake and exhaust cams.
2. Big Players in the Cam Game- Jun, Toda, etc... Not to mention the valvetrain upgrades available from these guys.
3. Parts Availability- As you already know. Not to mention sleeved cylinders, block guards. The hardest one to overcome is going to be the lack of high compression pistons. Even if you could get aggressive cams, they're going to be mere shadows of their potential without at least a 10.5:1 CR.
4. A million smaller advantages

Here's what I would do:
1. Turbo
2. I have seen an H22 in an Accord. It's actually not too difficult- no more than dropping an H22 into a Civic or Integra. Just requires custom motor mounts.

BTW, gentlemen- the moderators have all decided we are not going to tolerate bad mouthing other members. A simple "Thank you, but..." or "Here's what I always thought..." would have sufficed. All animosity does is make this place more difficult to be a member of. Please be civil to each other- all I'm asking.

[Accord Man]

Ya C'mon guys, lets try to keep it clean ok?!

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IMHO, to expect 250hp out of an all motor F23 setup is kinda pushing it..

I understand you want be original and all..

But if you went with the built h23 with forced induction.. You'd be fast..
ANd that itself is original, isnt it?

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

First and foremost, keep it clean. Just sit back and appreciate the fact that someone took the time to give you good information.
__________________________________________________ _

Now, I understand you wanting to be unique and build your engine. The main goal for engine builders is power, right? You are going to get WAY more power if you get the H22 swap and go from there. Like another member said, even if you just settle for I/H/E, you will be doing very well on an H22. Then when you get the money, go ahead and build that.

If you are set on building the F series, best of luck to ya. It will be challenging to find the parts, but if its worth it to you, go for it.

I've already made the decision to go all motor. If you mentioned FI, thanks but no thanks.

I've already spent considerable time and effort looking for parts for the F23. If you told me they weren't available: No kidding. If enough people start to ask for F series parts, maybe we will get them. Somebody has to be the first. 10 - 15 years ago you'd have been laughed at if you asked for any performance parts for a honda, but enough people asked, and now you can get them everywhere.

This won't be the first engine I've built, it won't be the last either. It is my first Honda engine though, so I thought that maybe I'd overlooked some suppliers.

SOHC can make considerable power with the right cam. I've already accepted that I will have to get a custom grind. I'm OK with that because I've heard a lot of people complain about the idle Q or some other problems on a lot of the aftermarket cams for other engines. If I have to try a couple of grinds before I get what I want, well thats life.

250whp is not impossible, difficult, but not impossible. Set a lofty goal and you may never reach it, but you will achieve greatness. strive for something attainable and what have you gotten? Mediocrity.

I asked a Q about finding parts for a built F series, I got one good response and a bunch of why i'm stupid and whats wrong with my plan responses. I've asked this Q before on other boards and really have heard the swap or turbo answers enough times to recite them in my sleep. Sorry if I jumped on somebody, but if you can't answer the Q then telling me that I should do something else does NOT help me at all. I know my options, I understand and accept the challenges, and I am willing to face them. I understand that I will have to spend a lot of money.

I've looked at the prelude swap. I understand what goes into it. I know the troubles to expect. I never said it wasn't feasable. The weight of a 6th gen accord is at most 250 - 300 lbs in favor of the lude. and that is from the heaviest accord to the lightest lude. In some cases, it's only about 50 lbs. The H22 swap isn't gonna make me any faster than the lude or a V6 accord.

If I pissed off people, So be it. That wasn't my intent, but I am very opinionated, and I'm not going to hold back what I think. I thought that a board dedicated to accord engine mods would be a good place to get a helpful response and support, not somewhere I would be told how bad my idea was.

For those of you who at least wished me good luck, Thanks!!!

[Accord Man]

Originally posted by jweller
I've already made the decision to go all motor. If you mentioned FI, thanks but no thanks.

I've already spent considerable time and effort looking for parts for the F23. If you told me they weren't available: No kidding. If enough people start to ask for F series parts, maybe we will get them. Somebody has to be the first. 10 - 15 years ago you'd have been laughed at if you asked for any performance parts for a honda, but enough people asked, and now you can get them everywhere.

This won't be the first engine I've built, it won't be the last either. It is my first Honda engine though, so I thought that maybe I'd overlooked some suppliers.

SOHC can make considerable power with the right cam. I've already accepted that I will have to get a custom grind. I'm OK with that because I've heard a lot of people complain about the idle Q or some other problems on a lot of the aftermarket cams for other engines. If I have to try a couple of grinds before I get what I want, well thats life.

250whp is not impossible, difficult, but not impossible. Set a lofty goal and you may never reach it, but you will achieve greatness. strive for something attainable and what have you gotten? Mediocrity.

I asked a Q about finding parts for a built F series, I got one good response and a bunch of why i'm stupid and whats wrong with my plan responses. I've asked this Q before on other boards and really have heard the swap or turbo answers enough times to recite them in my sleep. Sorry if I jumped on somebody, but if you can't answer the Q then telling me that I should do something else does NOT help me at all. I know my options, I understand and accept the challenges, and I am willing to face them. I understand that I will have to spend a lot of money.

I've looked at the prelude swap. I understand what goes into it. I know the troubles to expect. I never said it wasn't feasable. The weight of a 6th gen accord is at most 250 - 300 lbs in favor of the lude. and that is from the heaviest accord to the lightest lude. In some cases, it's only about 50 lbs. The H22 swap isn't gonna make me any faster than the lude or a V6 accord.

If I pissed off people, So be it. That wasn't my intent, but I am very opinionated, and I'm not going to hold back what I think. I thought that a board dedicated to accord engine mods would be a good place to get a helpful response and support, not somewhere I would be told how bad my idea was.

For those of you who at least wished me good luck, Thanks!!!

Well it seems like you've made up your mind.

I wish nothing but the best of luck & the smoothest journey possible.


Please keep us posted. This is a story I would like to follow!