.:HSTuners::::Hondas Wanted:: |
09-14-2003, 11:57 PM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Age: 39
Posts: 2,856
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Republican bashing and rebuttle inside
I didn't want to hijack GT40's thread further (sorry about that), so I figured I'd start a new one... if you have any attacks against me, republicans, southerners, or whatever, post em up and I will prove to you why I am better than you (jfwy). Who will be first?
PS- Please make the accusations/attacks/whatever specific instead of general statements that have no basis whatsoever, as it is hard to argue against something that has no foundation in the first place.
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09-15-2003, 12:34 AM
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#2 |
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Registered User
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While I really don't care about politial parties.. I lean towards republicam simply because democrats or morons. I bet someone here will come on saying "we should take care of and solve the problems at home before we take action overseas... those are not our problems". How idiotic is that to say??
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09-15-2003, 01:22 AM
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#3 |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
Age: 43
Posts: 7,451
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No hard feeling there Highlander. My issues isn't with republicans or democrats...it's with the American political system as a whole. Why do you have to align yourself with one particular party to begin with? You have to admit it...both of the two major political parties in this country have some insanely stupid ideas. I guess if forced to pick I'd lean slightly democratic only because I don't want to be associated with the HARDCORE republicans. They are generally the ones who are, for lack of a better word, hateful. They're generally the racists, the homophobes, etc. I'm not a racist and, while I'm not entirely comfortable around some gay people, whatever you wanna do with your life is your business. You should freely be able to adopt, marry, etc. provided you're not a felon or a crackhead or what have you. I'm also pretty pro-choice. I'll never know the burden (as in the physical and mental stress...not to speak of having a child as a burden) of pregnancy or giving birth so I won't even try to tell a woman what to do. Besides, once you outlaw something like that you outlaw it for things like rape, incestual pregnancies, or extremely high risk pregnancies. I DO NOT, however, condone it as a method of birth control. I like my guns and my tobacco, though so I'm not about to assign myself a party. I prefer to think of myself as a republicrat. I'm often reminded of the late great Bill Hicks...
"Half of my friend think these conservative republicans are annoying idiots. The other half think they're evil f@cks. You should hear the arguements around my house! They're annoying! They're evil! They're idiots! They're f@cks! Brother, sister, come together. Can't we just think of them as evil annoying idiot f@cks?" <-----is about to join the liberal American Nazi green party (no, I'm not actually a Nazi and yes, it's a real party....scary, huh?)
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika Last edited by GT40FIED : 09-15-2003 at 01:50 AM. |
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09-15-2003, 01:38 AM
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#4 |
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the government is crap...no matter what side your on.....gee lets make it so people who work 60hours a week cant get payed overtime...lets put tracking devices in peoples cars and make them wear seatbelts,lets pull people over for having too dark of window tint yet let people in limos get drunk in the back and not beable to see a damn thing they are doing......
bah **** the govt...they lie cheat and steal no matter what anyway.....we know about .0009% of anything the govt is doing at anytime......aliens,things like cloaning,bio-mechanics,phase tectonics,WOMD,the real use for satalites.......blah blah......liars, i'm too drunk to go any further into this.....oh and i'm not paranoid...logic says that the govt is lying about and hiding tons of shit....shit we prolly dont even wanna know about...... |
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09-15-2003, 01:47 AM
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#5 |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
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Posts: 7,451
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Damn Sc0rch...you must be wasted. I'm about a 6 pack deep right now and that made ME laugh. I agree about working 60 hours a week and not getting overtime though. I don't have much in the way of a job at the moment due to school, but my brother works as a paramedic on salary and he could work 80 hours a week and not get a dime of overtime. F@ck em all man. I'd like to hear more about your conspiracy theories on aliens and whatnot, though.
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika |
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09-15-2003, 03:36 AM
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#6 |
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Registered User
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Age: 39
Posts: 2,856
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No offense taken GT40, I just didn't want to hijack your thread so was trying to be courteous and take the matter elsewhere
 . I do agree that some republicans are crazy and need to relax, but there are also some dems the same way. I align myself as a republican because they best represent my general ideals of free trade, le se fare (sp?) government, capitalism, etc. They don't try to be naggy parents- the reps. try to be the cool parents that give their kids slack but kick them in the ass if they f' up (death penalty). I'm waiting for someone (prob nonov) to bash something I stand for so I can prove to him why he is wrong and I am right...
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yeah, its that big |
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09-15-2003, 07:05 AM
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#7 |
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Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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i never could figure out the political system here but most of the governments steal, they see their interests before the nation's and so forth.
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09-15-2003, 01:12 PM
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#8 |
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Thought Police
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: orlando florida
Age: 40
Posts: 9,662
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well... i dont wana get into this too much, but i do have a few questions about bushes administration that maybe you can shine some light on for me...
we didnt have enough money for our schools, or any type of health care, yet we spend roughly a billion a week in iraq, which had no connection to 9-11 and why did we stop searching for osama? he was the one who caused 9/11 and made the attack on our soil, yet he isnt a consern of ours? does bush just want to "win" something? or does he want to take out those who actually killed our people? why is our unemployment at a extreme low? why is our economy screwed? why are all of our forien relations we've built all last century ruined? thats all i wana get into now
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Black Vtec Prelude-h22a power'd  Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings. I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. |
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09-15-2003, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
What?? Who says there had to be any connection? But yes, Iraq had multiple connections with terrorist organizations and islamic extremists... we call that nipping it in the bud. The whole idea is to stop another 911 BEFORE it happens.. there were many other reasons as well... Quote:
What?????? When did we stop??? No we have not stopped searching.. you think we have simply because the media chooses not to report as much as they used to report on Operation Enduring Freedom.. but trust me, it still exists.. don't let the media control you so much.... Quote:
Well ok... the economy started declining right after Bush got into office... so it must be his fault.. yea, wrong. What you see in the economy today is the result of actions taken 3+ years prior.. the economy isn't something that happens overnight.. it is the result of trends that have been set in motion years ago.. blame your hero Bill Clinton for the economy.. I would rather have no president than one like clinton.. that was the most horrible president we have ever had.. |
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09-15-2003, 03:26 PM
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#10 | |||
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Thought Police
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: orlando florida
Age: 40
Posts: 9,662
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other reasons to stop looking for osama or to attack iraq? im not gonna touch iraq, because im going to be unamerica, unpatriotic, support terrorism or some other name because i dont see eye to eye with "americas" view with the whole iraq conflict. i said osama, not iraq bush said that osama bin laden was not a major threat anymore, or something along those lines, so... we are lifting the amount of intellegence put into finding the man who masterminded that attack, and diverting it to what would be in the best interest of our leaders. yet everyone is STILL thinking sadam had a connction with osama and that the fall of iraq feels like we're getting "even" from the 9/11 event. Quote:
i think i answered this... i know theres still some effort out there, but we should have disposed of osama before we went after sadam Quote:
whoa whoa whoa.... when did i even say clinton. i dont want clinton. im not saying out with the new back with the old. i know how the economy works, and how long it can take for a change to actualy take effect. but the thing is... he's not trying. the money is getting funneled into a "war" that has people afraid to buy or take risks in our economy.
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Black Vtec Prelude-h22a power'd Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings. I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. |
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09-15-2003, 04:30 PM
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 47
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Frankly I'm not going to bother...
I could care less what you think or why you align yourself with republicans or democrats or whoever... I made VERY clear arguements to (as mentioned) your quipy boys club one liners... Your ONLY arguements where standard rightwing rhetoric that doesn't even merit a response other than... HOW ABOUT THINKING instead of regurgitating what you read in your young republican news letter... I don't dis-like you or have any ill-will towards you... It's just sad to me that people can accept ANYTHING they're spoon fed... be it right or left wing or religion... ANYTHING... Think for yourself. As far as politics... I'm with gt40fied... any affiliation is stupid because the whole system is rotten... They both constantly struggle for the upper hand to smash the oppositions oportunity to make any progress... It's VERY rare that the party's put asside politics and judge things on merrit or neccesity... Not to mention most politicians are dumb... so that's not exactly helpful.. And for the record I almost registered republican during the last election (primaries) so I could vote mccain... he's the shit. One of VERY few decent people in pollitics... I'm sure he's flawed too though. HIGHLANDER If you're so desperate to redeem yourself... feel free to cut/paste my response in gt40's thread and tell me how I'm wrong...
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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09-15-2003, 09:07 PM
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#12 |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
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Whoa whoa whoa...you mean there's STILL a left wing in this country? I thought that all got ended when we got attacked and everyone picked up their guns and started screaming war. You guys gotta give us a break...we don't have any good representatives. Look at liberal media sources...wait...you can't. There are none. I mean...we had Donohue...a whiney little maggot. Then Geraldo...the only man not related to Saddam that the military asked to leave Iraq. I'm with Chris...I won't touch Iraq because suddenly you're unamerican or an islam lover or somethin like that. I hear people on TV (let's just call the channel Fox News) who ***** and whine about the aweful aweful left wing and then see other people point at Fox News and say it's sooooo liberal (vaguely reminds me of certain "vast right-wing conspiracies"). Why can't these bastards just accept that SOME of the democratic ideas are pretty good ideas...same goes for the opposite. As for Osama...yeah...we took our sweet time tracking him down. Oh...wait...we haven't tracked him down? Wow...we must not have had enough money. Huh? A billion a week in Iraq, huh? Well...it must be that we haven't had enough time. You're kidding! Two whole years you say? It took us like 2 days to figure out where Saddam was in a country of hardcore nationalists with a maze of underground tunnels. Fact is we have short memories and if it can't be done in a timely manor (or make a good sound bite) then it ain't worth doing. Guywithastang...I mean by no stretch of the immagination to flame or insult you, but I'm not sure a "nipping it in the bud" approach to military action. By that logic we could bomb...say...Lichtenstein becasue Colin Powell didn't like the way the Lichtenstein representative was looking at him at the last U.N. summit meeting and considered them a threat (hell...he made up shit about weapons of mass distraction. Lichtenstein is sooooo screwed). I'd have been more convinced had we the people (you know, like it says in that ratty old document they keep in the library of congress and take on tour every few years) been presented with a SHRED of evidence that Iraq was a direct threat to us. It seemed more like Bush was cleaning out some old files and found one on the Gulf War (remember that...when we actually went to the trouble to declare wars? Man...those were the days) and decided it looked kinda cool. I don't want another sleazy bag of shit like Clinton back in office but Bush hasn't done anything to make me think he's worthy of the job.
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika |
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09-15-2003, 11:14 PM
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#13 |
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do people realize if taxes are cut, we have more money and people
will then most likely spend it to make the economy better? $1 can mean A LOT of things... f*ck the liberals. |
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09-15-2003, 11:33 PM
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#14 |
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Cut more tax and make the economy better in US.
The economy is worse in Hong Kong. Grrrrrrrr!!!! |
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09-16-2003, 12:14 AM
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#15 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ECUSA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,693
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Quote:
A. Lose your sig... it's too wide. B. That's such a typical rediculous republican theory... I love how they spend MORE and cut taxes... that makes sense... then the dems have to take one for the team and raise taxes... ruining their reputation all to clean up after big spending R-tard republicans... Don't get me wrong democrats piss plenty of money away but nowhere near the level of Republicans... And to prevent anyone telling me that the republicans "invest" in technology to defend the country etc etc... That's a load of b.s... typically dem. spend MUCH more money on what the miltary actually needs... republicans DUMP BILLIONS into "research" IE paying off all the campaign contributers... They spend millions and millions r&d'ing things they have NO intention of EVER using... or on such rediculous B.S. ideas there's NO WAY any of them believed it... Iraq was so Halliburton could go and get drilling rights.... It's not a war for oil... it's a war for the drilling rights...lol. And as much as even I wished it wasn't actually about oil... it is... both Iraq's capability to produce it and halliburton/american co's rights to set up the infrastructure and drill... Iraq had been giving away oil and rights left and right... NOW all of a sudden ALL those contracts made by Saddam (mostly to the french and germans (albeit for ALL sorts of illegal military equip) are worthless... halliburton steps in and takes over... Who was Halliburton's ceo pre 02 elections.... Oh that's right... Dick Cheney... Right it's a left wing conspiracy.... Oh and just to clear up who's conspiracy it is... ALL of the last presidents' till ford I believe were ALL members of the "trilateral commission"... they meet like once a year or something like that and discuss the current course of world events... and where they'd like them to be heading... So rep. or dem... they're ALL crooked F'rs... the little guy or anyone honest in washington has NO chance of surviving... LAST POINT... there is a left wing media still... it just has to be sought out... Do a search for "halliburton" "dick cheney" on google or "wto" "lies" etc... you'll find PLENTY of extremests on both ends... My sister is actually a VERY active member of the FAR FAR FAR FAR left... she's been arrested at 2 WTO meetings... bush's inauguration and a BUNCH of other more localazed things. It's things like america's economic empirialism hidden behind the wonderful catch phrases like "free trade" and "preventitive war" that makes the world (and me) hate america... I don't care about being called un-american... I am UN-AMERICAN and VERY proud of it... I'm a citizen and I have no ill will towards the american public... but the gov./corporate america can suck my D!CK... they suck and they're sending the WHOLE world to hell in a handbasket so they can sell more Cheeseburgers and cigarettes. And by being a part of corporate america or gov. you are betraying your own soul... that is of course if you have one. Or unless your purpose is to make it better (you can try at least).
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I am an A$$hole... take anything I say to heart at YOUR OWN RISK... |
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09-16-2003, 01:15 AM
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#16 | |
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A. change your screen size. B. i didn't bother reading all the stuff you wrote. |
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09-16-2003, 01:54 AM
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#17 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Beale AFB, CA
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Wow.. a fine example of a dumb democrat... Raising taxes is a short term thing.. you CUT taxes to good long term effects on the economy... It's not a republican theory.. it's taught in economics...
And the war in iraq for oil.. like I have said before.. you have NO idea what goes on here.. or what used to go on here.. Back in April I believe, we picked up a 16 year old girl who was found at one of uday's supposed farms/ranches he has.. the girl had 2nd-3rd degree burns on 25% of her body including her genitals (done after he raped her for months of course), as well as other injuries... she died on the plane before she got to her destination.. so please don't tell me anyhting like you have the slightest idea what's going on in the world. And if the war was for oil, why not just invade South America since they supply more oil than Iraq ever has??? 2nd to the ENTIRE middle east, South America supplies our oil. |
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09-16-2003, 02:03 AM
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#18 | |||
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northwest
Age: 39
Posts: 3,993
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i'm glad im totally nuetral i dont want to be involved with the government :o
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09-16-2003, 02:18 AM
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#19 |
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if we go to war i thing that if we wore evil horrible uniforms we would brain wash people into thinking we were evil and to leave us alone....not to add that if we started being horrible like cutting off heads and outting them on pikes at the border of our camps...that would frighten people.....FEAR is th way.....we are pussies in a totally different way...yeah we can kick ass...but how about kicking ass and being brutal about it...skinn the ****ers.....set them on fire.....kill the children......make everyone fear us....they'll think twice about fuking with us again...now yeah it's harsh and vile....but fuk um.....no one else is going to get all moral when they attack us......fuk war morals and just slay the enemy....no overkill..run them over with tanks...who cares....we are out to kill anyway...what does it matter how we do it.....they bann flame throwers because it's overkill.....who the fuk cares.......there dead either way....i say make um suffer b4 they die.......our govt is a joke...they dont care about the people...all they care about is how good they look on TV and how nice there proposals sound.....while they fuk us in the ass and take rights from us and make it harder to live every day...alot of laws are fuking stupid but who cares....aslong as it brings in money to the govt/state for pulling people over for not wearing there seat belt,neons on cars, and any other ignorant law they can come up with.......worry more about the drug dealers,murders,rapists and leave everyone else the fuk alone.....
$$$$$$$$$$ is what it comes down to....the more $ the govt makes the more they care less about the people fuk um..... |
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09-16-2003, 02:26 AM
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#20 | |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
Age: 43
Posts: 7,451
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Quote:
A. The sig is kinda wide...I hate having to scroll over to read a post just because of somone's wide (and somewhat worthless) sig. B. That's the most incredibly ignorant thing I've heard in a while. If you want to have a good debate and make points you at least have to read the stuff. You might not agree with it, but you make an ass out of yourself by not even bothering. To a certain extent you've validated some of what he's said. V8killimports...you're right...South America does supply us with mucho oil. Just remember that the largest oil producing country (Venezuala) is currently in gridlock. Plus the fact that they produce MORE oil doesn't cancel out the fact that Iraq has many billions of dollars in oil for the taking. Just because someone else has more doesn't mean we won't balk at taking what we can get. Besides...who would back us if we invaded a small South American country. At least with Iraq we know we'll have some help. It's all about percieved impropriety. We can make excuses invading Iraq...not with South America. As for so and so being found at Udays ranch or whatever...that's odd...we didn't seem to blink for the last umpteen years that he's been raping and murdering women for no good reason. But when we get a good story that makes for good headlines it's big news. Just totally forget everyone else. Bottom line is that she's an IRAQI girl...not a U.S. citizen. That doesn't mean her life is less important...it means it's none of our business. it's up to each individual country to govern themselves. If the people are unhappy enough, no army can stop them from making change (I turn your attention to the american revolution). If they want to lie back and get done dry without a fight, that;s their problem, not ours.
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika Last edited by GT40FIED : 09-16-2003 at 09:59 AM. |
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09-16-2003, 04:25 AM
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#21 | |
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You saw what the isolationist approach got us.. it got us Pearl Harbor.. it's a small world, and the things done outside our borders do affect us whether you believe it or not.. that girl was ONE case of many.. and it was not even in the media as a feel good story.. it was first hand.. and it doesn't matter whether she was an iraqi girl, chinese, or whatever.. she was a human being.. And by the way, the kurds tried on several occasions to make change.. then they god gassed by Saddam.. but yes it is our problem.. so crying about it won't do much.. it will continue, and we are going to finish the job this time.. and if you are bitching about this being a war about oil either ride your bike, take public trans, or shut the F up. |
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09-16-2003, 06:10 AM
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#22 |
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^ and then people wonder why i hate republicans
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09-16-2003, 07:45 AM
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Beale AFB, CA
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Clinton was a perfect example of a democrat.. Please don't forget that he too started a war.. He flat out lied to the entire country about his "sexual relations" with Monica, flat out lied to congress, lied to everyone.. Think about your side of thinking... take care of all the problems at home, then when those are solved take care of probelms elsewhere.. how idiotic is that? |
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09-16-2003, 09:58 AM
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#24 |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
Age: 43
Posts: 7,451
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Yes...at least Bush is covert about his lies. That or he has someone else tell them for him. Slight side note/ history lesson: Pearl Harbor was a result of an oil sanction we put on Japan. Yes, we did sit around and pretend like nothing happened while the rest of the world went to war, but Pearl Harbor was just the Japanese being pissed that we cut off their oil.
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika |
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09-16-2003, 11:15 AM
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#25 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time... they attacked us because they were our biggest threat in the pacific.. they needed to secure their resources, and to do that they needed more territories.. they attacked us in hope of killing all the flattops in the pacific making them the superior force in the pacific.. oil saction or no oil sanction, it would have still happened.. Lesson for you... Don't try to teach someone with a history minor history unless you are a history major. |
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09-17-2003, 10:22 AM
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#26 |
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I've gotta say that, in general, GT40FIED is speaking for me as well.
The real Lesson #1: Don't believe that everything you learn in school or read in a book is the whole story or wholly true. I'm not going to really get into the Iraq thing here. Everybody believes they know what's really going on and, in all actuality, I doubt that anybody really knows what's going on.....Bush included. But as for Saddam.....we funded him heavily, as we did with bin Laden, and Noriega.....interesting, isn't it? Now we're funding the Kurds and Pakistan......let's just hope that part of history doesn't repeat itself.....again. I personally don't think we should have gone there in the first place (and Afghanistan), but I feel deeply for the men and women of our Armed Forces who are there and hope they all return safely. I have my reasons for believing we shouldn't have gone in. I don't think it has served our best interests.... I think Democrats and Republicans are both, in general, very smart people. They're also both, in general, stupid as hell. They're smart in their abilities to lie, cheat, steal, screw, and sway opinion. They're stupid in that they rarely ever truly benefit the American public. Clinton did some very good things for the country. He also did some bad things and he lacks certain morals. But what is funny about it is that he's not really any different than many other people currently in offices of the federal government, you just don't hear about them. I have yet to see much good (in my opinion) come out of Bush, but I realize that many people like his policies, no matter how unfortunate I find it sometimes. Foreign affairs are also domestic affairs, yes. It is naive to believe that what goes on in the world doesn't affect the US. But it's also naive to think you can just neglect domestic affairs as well. A good leader balances the internal and external affairs to best serve the interests of the country without ever ignoring either. The economy is a mix of past and present. It can go down in an instant or decline as a result of the last few years. The bursting of the "dot com" bubble was inevitable, growth like that cannot be sustained for very long. It had roots that spidered all throughout the US economy, so it's no surprise that its crash affected so much. That's an example of how the previous years affected the current. It's hard to blame that on any president. Clinton didn't create the "dot com" bubble any more than Bush popped it. 9/11 is an obvious example of how present affects the economy. Of course 9/11 is the culmination of many years of poor US foreign policy, but economically speaking it's an instant influence of the present (present being when the markets dove). It's tough to say that's Bush's fault unless you subscribe to the belief that it may not have happened if Bush weren't in office....but that's an entirely different discussion I'll leave to Scorch.  b |
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09-17-2003, 11:51 AM
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#27 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Age: 39
Posts: 2,856
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Man, I'm sorry I've been outta this nice little debate. My computer got infested with spyware and it multiplied like rabbits at a Barry White concert (RIP). Anyway, first of all I would like to assure you nonov, I do speak for myself in politics. My stepdad is a moron and my mom is a liberal when it comes to politics, so I guess they dictate what I think, considering I am generally conservative
 . I do not get any political newsletters, and watch all networks of news except CBS, they are too old and dull. Please stop making things up and talking about that which you do not know, ie my life. Thanks.Thanks v8 for holding ground here, I agree with everything you have said. Iraq was a threat, maybe not directly towards us as an organized country, but if you think it didn't support terrorism, just look at the terrorist training camps in Northern Iraq. I guess they train the kurds for self-defense up there . They support(ed) terrorism in the region and caused much instability, maintaining hostile relations with Kuwait and Iran, not to mention other countries. A terrorist supporting nation causing instability in a region known for breeding terrorism is not a good thing. Surely that is simple enough to understand. Pearl Harbor was over an oil sanction? Um no, the Japanese knew we were their only real threat in the Pacific and war with us was imminent, so they hoped their strike would cripple the US Navy enough to the point where we could not make war with them effectively. When did we stop looking for Osama? Even CNN (al-jazerah west) reports we have him within a 40-mile radius. That is a lot of ground. We still have thousands of troops in Afghanistan, and if you don't believe that, look up the KIA logs and call some of the families. So raising taxes and more gov't spending is the key to long term success? I knew it, I knew socialism was prosperous, just look at what economic powerhouses Sweeden and Norway have become . Wal-Mart just became the biggest company in the world (revenue 220+ billion per year, surpassing Exxon-Mobil), and guess why? It is because they are the poster-child of capitalism. I'd say they have done pretty well, and apparently people like shopping there, especially to spend 220+ billion per year there.THE ECONOMY IS NOT THE STOCK MARKET. Why can people not figure out that what the stock market does is not an accurate measure of how well the economy is doing. It is speculation on the future of the economy, not the current condition. People's emotions and premonitions come into play in the market, such as the panic after 9/11. Did the economy immediately plummit? No, I still went to school, people still went to work. People speculated the economy was going downhill and 9/11 gave them a reason to hit the panic button. If everyone in America gets and spends a $200 tax check, that is amazing. 250mil x 200, thats an awful lot of money. And don't think that the money gets spent once. Consumers spend money on a product, the firm spends that same money to expand/hire, more people employed, the employed people now get a check that they spend some every week, that money goes into circulation, etc. It is called capitalism. I recommend a basic macroeconomics book from a bookstore. There are lots of liars on both sides of Congress, but saying Bush has covert lies is retarded. Nice speculation. Hey, I bet Dick Cheney secretly has 10 black muslim gay lovers all named Ace. See my point? Anyways, thats all I got for now, if I missed anything feel free to bring it to my attention. My computer is still down waiting on a windows CD so I can finish reformatting, and I don't want to use my friends too often.
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09-17-2003, 03:39 PM
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#28 | |
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Thought Police
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: orlando florida
Age: 40
Posts: 9,662
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i dont know who this was directed at, but if it at all directed to me, i'll back up what i said about a ****ed economy. ok.... job rate is extremly low(i think the lowest its been since the great depression), people are afraid to take investment risks, people are loosing their jobs, theres still some commerce going on, but its WAY down. i dont care what the stock market says, sure it lets you see how the major corporations are doing(if you look at the indexs) but it dosnt show that theres people without food cloths or even a home because they got laid off, or hours cut, or cant find a job. im sorry... it just seems like you can look at the loss of some peoples lives(not life.. lives... loosing homes, families, possesions or anything else that once wasnt a issue) in our own counrty and call it "not so bad" or "acceptable" because we're "right" by invading another country and funneling money into somehting thats providing no gains, and well.... if you look at whats going on WE ****ED UP. we havnt really proved our invasion was justified yet. sure sadam was a bad man, i never am saying no to that, im not saying that we should have sat there with a silent voice, but when our own ****in people need help, and our gov sees it to be more important to go fight a political war that you can get the mass behind you simply because a different terrorist group attacked us. bah... lost my train of thought. i godda goto work 
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Black Vtec Prelude-h22a power'd Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings. I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. |
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09-17-2003, 04:12 PM
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#29 | |
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I knew it!!! Time to bomb Dick. Chris, I have a feeling the stock market comments are more directed to what I said than you, but I'm. Either way, chill a little and try to write a sentence that makes sense.  It's true that the stock market isn't the economy, but you can't write it off much either. It is a financial foundation of many companies and people and, as you said, is a bet on future success. When the markets dive people risk losing lots of money, which makes them less likely to spend. Of course you have shown with your $200 example, spending less can make a big difference in the economy. Therefore the stock market is very important to the economy, it can affect us instantly or its effects can take time to ripple through. One can say the same thing about a tax cut or rebate. Cutting taxes can be a useful tool to spur future economic development, however it's a gamble just like the stock market. There's no guarantee it'll spark anything. And it only does you good if the government spends less and/or raises more tax money. Of course the theory behind it is to lower taxes, causing people to spend more, causing the economy to grow, meaning more taxes. It's the same theory behind a price cut. Lower prices to sell higher volume. While profit margin may go down, profit goes up. Newsflash.....beep beep beep...this just in....it doesn't always work. Of course raising taxes is just the opposite. It can cause the economy to weaken, or it can just fill your coffers with more change. On Pearl Harbor....what's a good Pearl Harbor discussion without the conspiracy theory that the government knew about the attacks and did nothing so we'd get pulled into the war? I've never heard of any oil sanctions causing it.....but I can't write it off as false either. Just because the history books and History Channel teach us that it was because we were the only threat doesn't mean it's the whole story or wholly true. On Iraq and the Kurds. Training Kurds for self-defense? You do realize that the Kurds are not friends of Saddam's regime, he likes to kill them....I highly doubt he trains them. So if the Kurds are running terrorist training camps (and I'm not sure if they are), and we are supporting the Kurds (that I'm sure of), then we're supporting terrorism....again. If not, then who are you speaking of running terrorist training camps? If Saddam ran them, I'm sure he didn't train many Kurds..... I still have yet to see any real proof that Saddam is much of a threat to the world. Personally I find it embarrassing the kinds of crap that have come out of all this. Simple things like plaigiarizing academic papers from as early as before Daddy bombed Iraq and calling it "a current intelligence dossier." That sounds like there's about as much intelligence behind it as thinking the Chinese embassy is a military post. But so far I still have yet to see or hear any real proof that justified actions. And if you're concerned about young Iraqi girls that get raped, beaten, or anything else inhumane.....you must just have your eyes closed to the rest of the world. There are so many horrific violations of humanity that occur throughout the world that the US just turns a blind eye to. Look at how long it took the US to enter Kosovo. Do you think we care what goes on in Nigeria and some other African countries? Claiming that we're liberating people from a dictator is such a load of bull, it's a front for the real reasons. And for news, if you watch CNN, you're getting some of the worst shit out there. CNN has some pretty horrible reporting, they're so extremely one-sided about it that it's just quite frankly ridiculous that anybody even bothers watching them anymore. My $0.02. b |
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09-17-2003, 06:10 PM
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#30 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Age: 39
Posts: 2,856
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Just a couple quick things before I head off to dinner... I agree we haven't found any WMD in Iraq, but we really haven't been there *that* long. Do you expect us to be able to find secret hidden facilities somewhere in an entire country that fast? Think about how much land is involved. Not to mention we still have to divert most of the forces to peacekeeping and policing, not searching for WMD.
I agree with everything you said about the stock market, and yes sometimes tax cuts don't work- this is especially true when consumer confidence is low as it is now. There is a lot of psychology involved in the economy. It is the bull vs. bear mentality, not just the numbers. Right now for the most part people are bearish about the economy, while the numbers are proving bullish. I certainly wasn't saying Iraq trained Kurds, or that Kurds ran terrorist camps, thats why I put the to emphasize sarcasm at the end of the sentence . I was saying that Iraq trains terrorist in the northern territories, which is also where the Kurds are. He didn't train the Kurds, he trained the terrorists there, which he could also use to suppress the Kurds (gassing). Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory is just that- a theory. We found out about the attack two hours in advance (IIRC), but still weren't sure it was a reality. Not to mention it is hard to assemble and battle-ready an entire fleet in two hours, especially in the configuration the ships were docked. I do watch some CNN, but just so I stay balanced. I know they are crap, as I referred to them as al-Jazerah of the west earlier. CNN tried to get people to spend every penny on inner-city kids, while Fox News supports vast armies and the spread of our capitalism aka emperialism. NBC is basically liberal, and CBS is just a bunch of old people that want more social security. Thats it for now, off to get some dinner and class.
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09-17-2003, 06:10 PM
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#31 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Age: 39
Posts: 2,856
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Just a couple quick things before I head off to dinner... I agree we haven't found any WMD in Iraq, but we really haven't been there *that* long. Do you expect us to be able to find secret hidden facilities somewhere in an entire country that fast? Think about how much land is involved. Not to mention we still have to divert most of the forces to peacekeeping and policing, not searching for WMD.
I agree with everything you said about the stock market, and yes sometimes tax cuts don't work- this is especially true when consumer confidence is low as it is now. There is a lot of psychology involved in the economy. It is the bull vs. bear mentality, not just the numbers. Right now for the most part people are bearish about the economy, while the numbers are proving bullish. I certainly wasn't saying Iraq trained Kurds, or that Kurds ran terrorist camps, thats why I put the to emphasize sarcasm at the end of the sentence . I was saying that Iraq trains terrorist in the northern territories, which is also where the Kurds are. He didn't train the Kurds, he trained the terrorists there, which he could also use to suppress the Kurds (gassing). Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory is just that- a theory. We found out about the attack two hours in advance (IIRC), but still weren't sure it was a reality. Not to mention it is hard to assemble and battle-ready an entire fleet in two hours, especially in the configuration the ships were docked. I do watch some CNN, but just so I stay balanced. I know they are crap, as I referred to them as al-Jazerah of the west earlier. CNN tried to get people to spend every penny on inner-city kids, while Fox News supports vast armies and the spread of our capitalism aka emperialism. NBC is basically liberal, and CBS is just a bunch of old people that want more social security. Thats it for now, off to get some dinner
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09-18-2003, 01:29 PM
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#32 |
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Posts: n/a
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Sorry I took the
as being to the self-defense rather than terrorist reference.Now I definitely recognize that Iraq is a big country and we did give them plenty of lead time indicating we'd probably attack, so they had some time to dispose of, destroy, or hide WMD. BUT, at the same time, if our "intelligence" community is so effective about finding proof that Iraq had/has WMD, you'd think they'd be decent at finding it or having a good idea about its fate. I've been questioning for a while whether Bush is really that much of a war monger, or if he is just being fed some silly sh*t by the CIA and NSA that is causing him to believe them and act on those beliefs. I still haven't decided for myself whether the CIA/NSA are wrongly leading Bush or not.....but either way, chances are I'll never know. Or at least it'll be a while before I do know. I also recognize that the Pearl Harbor thing is a theory, however the theory is that we had intelligence that such a thing was going to happen and didn't act on it. The 2 hrs. warning not counting as aforementioned intelligence. However if the Navy had 2 hrs. to prepare for an attack like that (assuming they had considered the warning as a real threat), they could have done quite a bit. They would have lost some ships and a lot of men still, but the Japanese would have paid a far bigger price at that time for the attack. 2 hrs. can be a long time in times of war. b |
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09-19-2003, 01:49 AM
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#33 | |
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Best...mod...ever
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the end of the longest line
Age: 43
Posts: 7,451
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A. Perhaps I should've been more clear on this. Yes, Japan was harboring ill will towards us before Pearl Harbor BUT our oil sanctions are what pushed them over the edge. We sat on our thumbs and pretended that the war in the rest of the world didn't involve us until Pearl Harbor. So in retrospect perhaps I should've clarified myself. B. Yes, there are liars on both sides of the bench...that's how politics works. If everyone told the truth this country would be in anarchy. But since Bush and (sort of) Cheney are in power, the scrutiny is on them. Yes, Bush lies. For all I know Cheney may indeed have 10 black muslim gay lovers all named Ace...that would explain why he's too busy to show his heart-attack ridden face...he's too busy in the middle of a daisy chain to come out and make a statement. Does it really matter? They lie and that's the point. It's just that Bush has a duty as the leader of the largest free nation in the world to present information that at least LOOKS credible. Not grainy satellite photos of what might be WMDs or possibly Two Guys & A Van moving trucks. They've got the most sophisticated tracking equipment in the world and they can't tell me if a truck is carrying VX nerve gas or Ahmed's furniture? Sorry...that doesn't fly with me. The only thing that's kept Bush in office is 9/11 and honestly, with all of his speech writers and advisors, I don't think anyone else would've done it differently. Plus I appreciate when presidents can pronounce simple words like "nuclear" and not have them come out as "nucular" (sorry...I lived in Texas for the first 10 years of my life and I didn't come out talking like a f@cking moron). I also don't like presidents who invent new forms of government such as "Hitlerism" (yes, that was in his state of the union address). Last I checked Hitler was a Nazi (short for the German word for nationalist which is what our country has become...not Nazis but nationalists) and there is no recognized form of government known as "hitlerism". Damn what a moron. he needs to let other write his speeches cuz his off-the-cuff crap is totally assinine.
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1984 1/2 Mustang GT350 #842, Faster than you...nuff said Anna Fan Club President/Dictator Someday, in the event that mankind actually figures out what it is that this world actually revoles around, thousands of people are going to be shocked and perplexed that it was not them. Sometimes this includes me. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." - George Orwell Welcome to the new Amerika |
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