"Why should I swap my D series out?"

[AzCivic]

another example of an assumption:

"The d series will have to have a low comp bigger laggier turbo setup to make the same power as a B with a normal sized quick spooling turbo."

Prove me wrong.

Since the D is much weaker than a B, it needs more work to make the same ammount of power.

Its kinda like this - anything you can do i can do better.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick
The d series will have to have a low comp bigger laggier turbo setup to make the same power as a B with a normal sized quick spooling turbo.

Thats why - yes the D would be cheeper to make, but, its quality before quantity.

Like i said earlier - i'd rather have a nice car with a lil more money into it than a gutted car with no interior and a D just to save some money.

i've seen several turbo D that's making 300WHP using the greddy 15G (i'll be the first to have 300WHP using greddy's 19T ) , and we all know that that turbo is not a definition of a laggy turbo.. a d powered car wouldn't have to be stripped if its boosted because.... a turbo d would make more torque than a NA b powered car, now if the b powered car is boostin' then that's a different argument altogether

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
i've seen several turbo D that's making 300WHP using the greddy 15G (i'll be the first to have 300WHP using greddy's 19T ) , and we all know that that turbo is not a definition of a laggy turbo.. a d powered car wouldn't have to be stripped if its boosted because.... a turbo d would make more torque than a NA b powered car, now if the b powered car is boostin' then that's a different argument altogether

What else was done to the motor?

If you did whatever was done to that D series motor to a Bseries, then well, lets just say the D would still get the short end o da stick.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick
Prove me wrong.

Since the D is much weaker than a B, it needs more work to make the same ammount of power.

Its kinda like this - anything you can do i can do better.

great concept of argument... but can you define weak for me..

i'm sure we can all agree that there is a correlation between a b being stronger than a d but your argument would be pointless if your definition of weak is different from mine..

[AzCivic]

pick the d16 and the b16(and cash which one is more streetable):

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
great concept of argument... but can you define weak for me..

i'm sure we can all agree that there is a correlation between a b being stronger than a d but your argument would be pointless if your definition of weak is different from mine..

I was putting things in laymans terms for you.

The D is limited in a number of aspects - its design does not allow it to produce the same hp in stock trim that a B would allow. Therefore, as higher levels of performance are desired from each motor, the D's weaknesses just become more and more apparent (as if they arnt already).

Originally posted by AzCivic
pick the d16 and the b16(and cash which one is more streetable):

Wow, this chart is so informative it doesnt even say what cars it is testing - this could be for anything.


** Next

[AzCivic]

we arent talking stock motors, were talking about getting the most reliable power with a certain budget.

[AzCivic]

"Wow, this chart is so informative it doesnt even say what cars it is testing - this could be for anything.


** Next"

DIDNT I SAY PICK THE D16 AND THE B16!?

Originally posted by AzCivic
we arent talking stock motors, were talking about getting the most reliable power with a certain budget.

Oh i didnt know we were talking budget - if we are talking budget, yes, it is easier to get more from a D than just a swap.

But, if you want more functionality/reliability/drivability out of your car, then Swap in a real motor (b series of corse) and put down some serious numbers so ur car will be able to have things like power steering, a sunroof, full interior, a system, street tires, and room for another person.

Quality before quantity.

Originally posted by AzCivic
"Wow, this chart is so informative it doesnt even say what cars it is testing - this could be for anything.


** Next"

DIDNT I SAY PICK THE D16 AND THE B16!?

That graph could mean anything - BTW, i could go online and find a graph to prove just the opposite of whatever it is this mystery graph is trying to tell me.


BTW - whatever you do to a D you can always do to a B and get better results so this mystery graph doesnt mean anything.

Mod for Mod a Bseries motor will win every time.

[AzCivic]

edit: sorry lost my temper.

here's the setup of the engines on the graph

d16y8, zex cam/springs, skunk2 IM, b16 TB, greddy 15g, FMIC, 290cc, 12psi.

b16, ctr cams, t3/to4E,FMIC, fmu, vafc, 440cc 12psi

Originally posted by AzCivic
edit: sorry lost my temper.

here's the setup of the engines on the graph

d16y8, zex cam/springs, skunk2 IM, b16 TB, greddy 15g, FMIC, 290cc, 12psi.

b16, ctr cams, t3/to4E,FMIC, fmu, vafc, 440cc 12psi

Your graph makes no sence. The D has a higher grade of cam than the B, and it has more parts to it.

Granted the B is flowing twice the ammount of air and fuel, but thats not the point i am trying to make here.

Two motors with two different setups will yeild 2 different results. Like i said before, i could use a graph to prove anything.

Lets start simple here. If i put all the mods to my motor that you have on urs - test pipe, header, exhaust, flywheel, ect - then my car would get more out of those mods than yours would because i have a bigger motor.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick

Mod for Mod a Bseries motor will win every time.

Really? May I ask how you know this? If you can back this up with evidence then by all means I agree that a Bseries is superior in comparison to a Dseries, until then your opinion doesn't mean squat. * not tryin' to sound like a jackass*

[AzCivic]

like i ALREADY said: were not talking about mod for mod were talking dollar for dollar.

cash stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
Really? May I ask how you know this? If you can back this up with evidence then by all means I agree that a Bseries is superior in comparison to a Dseries, until then your opinion doesn't mean squat. * not tryin' to sound like a jackass*

Ok, i am stating a fact. If its not a fact, then prove that i am wrong. Logically, a more powerfull motor will make more power than a weaker motor if the motors are given the same mods. **if what i just said wasnt true, then prove it**

Its true like it or not.

Ok, Lets take our 2 cars. you put a street/strip cam in ur car, and i put the equivalent offered by the same company (2 cams in my case) in my car and who is faster?

You get an intake and i get an intake - who is faster?

You put Greddy's 19T kit on ur car, and i put their 00 civic SI kit on my car - who's faster.

I will answer all 3 of those for you: ME

The only thing a d series has going for it is that it is in most Civics to begin with, other than that, nobody would ever swap one in their car.

[AzCivic]

if we want to use you as an example: hmm what could i do with 5 grand?

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick
The only thing a d series has going for it is that it is in most Civics to begin with, other than that, nobody would ever swap one in their car.

um...actually, its quite the contrary, there's lots of people that swap in a d series as there are swapping in a b series... so let's not make any more assumptions cuz it strays us from the real issue...

Originally posted by AzCivic
like i ALREADY said: were not talking about mod for mod were talking dollar for dollar.

cash stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Kinda tough, im still trying to tell Sohc_sheetec_Tuner that Mod for Mod a B series is gonna win every time, while at the same time arguing about reliability and practicality with you lol.

Dollar for dollar, a D will be cheeper to build untill its power level is finally reached.

As for me, i would rather have a quick spooling turbo setup on my current motor than a bigger slower spoolin turbo on my old motor - even if the cars put out the same exact hp and tq, the B would still be better because it yeilds a more responsive setup.

yes it is more expensive, and i am not denying that at all, but no matter what setup you have on a D, a less agressive setup on a B will be more responsive an yeild the same gains.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by cashizslick


You put Greddy's 19T kit on ur car, and i put their 00 civic SI kit on my car - who's faster.

let's go find out! i wish i had the money to... actually, that wouldn't be fair because you'd be pushin' more psi..i think..

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

mr. " cash is tryin' to be slick"... (hehe ).. how exactly do you know that mod for mod that your car outperforms mine everytime?? that is your personal opinion , and we all know that personal opinion doesn't mean a thing in terms of using it as evidence...

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
let's go find out! i wish i had the money to... actually, that wouldn't be fair because you'd be pushin' more psi..i think..

And, umm, i have a better starting point - even if we both used the same kit you would still looze. Not to be a moron, but a D could never go shot to shot with a b

Originally posted by sohc_vtec 2NR
mr. " cash is tryin' to be slick"... (hehe ).. how exactly do you know that mod for mod that your car outperforms mine everytime?? that is your personal opinion , and we all know that personal opinion doesn't mean a thing in terms of using it as evidence...

Buddy, i have said it before and i will say it again. A more powerfull motor will see more gains than a smaller motor when you do the same things to each of em.

My car with AEM intake, DC 4-1 header, and THermal Classic catback will do better than yours or az's cause i have a more powerfull motor.

Its not an assumption, its fact - at least untill you find me an instance where a D and a B were given the same mods and the D put out higher numbers.

[AzCivic]

news flash a b16 and d16 is the same size engine, so if thats your basis for a b16 getting more from a bolt on than a d16, its wrong.

Originally posted by AzCivic
news flash a b16 and d16 is the same size engine, so if thats your basis for a b16 getting more from a bolt on than a d16, its wrong.

Then why does a stock civic SI beat up on ur car?

Just cause they displace the same doesnt mean anything - i still got 45hp on you. I mean seriously, the new Ford ****ass has what 150hp and 150 tq? By that rationale it should outperform my car in every way, but when i look in my rear view mirror, its back there with all the Dseries powered hondas - what is that about??

[AzCivic]

your not beating any d series civic with 5 grand in engine upgrades into it now are you?

Originally posted by AzCivic
your not beating any d series civic with 5 grand in engine upgrades into it now are you?

Hey, if you put 5k into a D and 5k into a B the b will still be faster.

The B is a better motor, if you build it, you will be better off than if you built a D

[AzCivic]

you missed the whole point i've been trying to make.

No, i got distracted from your point.

I realize that it is cheeper to build the d since its in ur car to start with.

But, it doesnt offer the advantages of building a B.

[AzCivic]

then say it! say "Getting 250-300hp with the d series is cheaper than swaping to a b series"

and dont bring up any crap about reliability as i've already proven your reliability point wrong.

[sohc_vtec 2NR]

Originally posted by AzCivic
"Getting 250-300hp with the d series is cheaper than swaping to a b series"

i'm too tired to argue right now, i'll be back tomorrow..

i thought picking what to eat for breakfast is hard... this is even worse...

[pdiggitydogg]

isnt this great?

Originally posted by AzCivic
then say it! say "Getting 250-300hp with the d series is cheaper than swaping to a b series"

and dont bring up any crap about reliability as i've already proven your reliability point wrong.

I never said that it was cheeper to get 250hp by a motor swap. If you started with the B in the first place, yes, it would be cheeper.

No, you havent proven my reliability point wrong at all. A Dseries making 250hp is working much much harder than a Bseries doing the same thing.

Originally posted by AzCivic
and dont bring up any crap about reliability as i've already proven your reliability point wrong.

I just re red this thread, and i see no proof of the impossible.

The D aint ment to be a performance motor where as the B is.

Lets put it in easy terms, if you get your D to make 170 crank hp (my stock hp rating) then the D is going to be working much harder than my motor will be to make the extra power - thus making it less reliable.

If thats not true, then i should swap in my old POS d16 and junk my B16

[Shaved &/or Laid]

Alright since i slept through all this, i think what cash is trying to say about the boost is this:

to make more power from a d, you need a larger turbo. Larger turbo spools slower. (depending on bearings and trim etc, of course) Usually, to do something like double/ almost triple the power of a D series youre going to have to turn the boost up really high. BUT they are saying people are using 15g's...are they basically just going sans wastegate with these ? seems like 12 psi is pretty much the most a hairdryer that size will put out ?

im just asking for info really.

and, to explain my situation, i already had a blown D. I also didnt really wanna go the turbo route on whats basically my first car. So, preference being stated towards n/a setup, a B is a little easier to reach my goals.

didn't read the whole thing but heres the end of my thoughts on it.. they are pretty simple..

all of you with b16 swaps... as stated the lack of torque is the problem.. through nitrous injection ($500 TOTAL cost) i make way more torque AND am faster in a heavier car... so i still have $2500 left of the 3k you spent.... with that i could build an almost race motor.. OR a milder build TWICE... and thats right.. STILL be faster

everyone keep saying.. well i can build my b i can build my b.. sure you can... how much more are you going to spend on that?2k?

ok so now you have 5 THOUSAND into just the motor and i bet you can spin tires all the way down the 1/4... drag racing is not JUST power... when you build your n/a b.. ill go to 2 stage direct port.. and suspension including slicks.. and ill STILL have spent less and ill STILL win.. you may have better dyno numbers.. no wait.. you WILL have better dyno numbers.. but who cares if you lose... the point is without being pretty race preped you will not go faster than 11's and it is very posible to get a single cam into the 12's with the right build AND suspension...

there was a kid named eric who lives near me he had a turbo h22.. it made TONS of power.. he ran a mid 12... because he could not hook for shit..

[Shaved &/or Laid]

OC you need to hurry up and do that n2 thread so i can juice when i move out.

Originally posted by oc civic
no true.. you can only go so fast.. with a fwd STREETABLE suspension.. and beyond that... i really dont believe (in the practical relm) that a lightly built b and a lightly build d are that differant...

dont tell that to the people running 8 second quarter miles in their hatchbacks!!!!!

Originally posted by Honda_Tengoku
dont tell that to the people running 8 second quarter miles in their hatchbacks!!!!!

im not sure if you are beign sarcastic or not.. but i have yet to see an 8sec honda on stock type suspension..