Got my first kill today!

[GT40FIED]

Cobras only have two options...wheel finish and rear spoiler. LSDs are standard. As for their suspensions, yeah, the GTs are a little sloppy (which is why I've done so much to mine) but the Cobras pull pretty good on a skidpad with decent tires. They're no Porsche 911, but they'll kick the crap out of the more commonly tuned imports in stock form. Plus, I'm not a big fan of the massive understeer you get with most FWD cars. But that's just me. Trust me...Mustangs are more than capable of putting power to the pavement. If you browse the shifting gears forum you'll see last weekend I bolted on a pair of slicks for the first time and pulled the front end up far enough that it screwed my header and H-pipe when it came back down.

There is one possibility we've overlooked here...that the car wasn't a real Cobra. A lot of people will make the conversions and I don't suspect a ton of import drivers would know the difference. Hell...it's hard for someone who is in the know to tell sometimes without getting close. Coulda been a V6 for all any of us know...even a mildly modded V8 should've been able to put a hurt on an Accord.

Originally posted by MustangMan
Well, I won't argue with you on that, I've got just under 2k in my suspention system, The new Cobras actualy handle desent stock, but they do need a bit of work, Right now, mine handles good, but it did take some work.

just out of curiousity, although, oot, what are your suspension mods ?

[AzCivic]

hey mustang girl, why was the cobra not produced for a couple of years???? you seem to be quick on the dyno #'s of the new cobra but cant seem to recall the problems ford had with the older one. how convient.

why is it that its usually the mustang owners who talk shit on honda boards, I guess after they get beat by ls1's all the time they need something to make them feel better.

hmmm some interesting reading: http://www.atomicfrog.com/mirrors/ww...a_problems.htm

the only thing older cobra owners should be laughing at is themselves.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
hey mustang girl, why was the cobra not produced for a couple of years???? you seem to be quick on the dyno #'s of the new cobra but cant seem to recall the problems ford had with the older one. how convient.

why is it that its usually the mustang owners who talk shit on honda boards, I guess after they get beat by ls1's all the time they need something to make them feel better.

hmmm some interesting reading: http://www.atomicfrog.com/mirrors/ww...a_problems.htm

the only thing older cobra owners should be laughing at is themselves.

And you're quick to complain about a car that you have so little knowledge of you had to reference another site for info. Yes, the '99 cobras had problems...but Ford stepped up and fixed them. More than I can say for Mazda and the RX-8 where they want to buy back the cars they f@cked up. Cobras were not produced for one year...not a couple. That was a quality control issue due to the problems with the '99s to make sure it didn't happen again. If you want to compare real world reliability I'll go toe to toe with Honda any day. I just got done replacing my friend's alternator in her old school Civic about 2 months ago. She paid over $100 for it at the local parts store (best price of 3 different stores) and then about a month later the timing belt gave out and screwed up the valves. You wanna guess how much I got my alternator for? About $35 and it's lasted me these 5 long years flawlessly. Look...as an auto tech major I can tell you that no cars fail more than others. Every car model has it's problems. People just like to b!tch about domestics more. They buy domestics thinking they're built like tanks and find out they're built just like any import out there. That pisses them off so they go out of their way to b*tch about them. Imports are the opposite. If someone has a major problem they think it's a fluke...like their car is the only one so they don't make a big deal out of it. Back a few years ago there was this huge percieved problem with Camaros. People drove them like they stole them and complained out the ass when they had any sort of problem. And speaking of LS and LT series motors...what do you expect? The motors had 69 cubic inches over the Ford motor. That's like weighing a Honda vs. a Mustang. Of course they won't come out on top. But Camaro vs, GT and Cobra vs. SS you've got quite a wide price gap for the "extra" power that can be made up by a few small mods. Now the new Cobras are being compared to Vettes...something a Mustang was never designed to compete with, but it's doing it rather well. So, to summarize, please stick to berating cars you actually know something about. I won't pretend to know a ton about Hondas if you don't pretend to know the first thing about Cobras...although I'm sure you know fairly well what their tail lights look like.

[AzCivic]

ahahahah again a mustang owner gets pissy. so your saying since i dont own a crappy cobra that was f'd from the factory I dont have th right to talk about it? uhhh riiight i came close to buying one awhile back then did some research and found a ton of interesting news that they were big piles of shit that didnt make the power they were supposed to. THE COBRA being Fords flagship muscle car.

and no one gives two shits about the trouble YOU had with a honda.. there's a reason Honda is always ranked higher than ford/chevy when it come to reliability and quality of materials. get over it.

[AzCivic]

oh and i like the ricer excuse of having less displacement. nice

[ebpda9]

i liked the one about the wheel spin and anyway dyno numkbers are irrelevant if the driver is a tool.

the only thing wrong with the honda scene: too many posers and risers. mostly all show. in my area few hondas are bad ass, those that are, respected by me. but clearlights hideous bodykits, gigantic wings which you dont push nough power to use or actually go to the track to use, 4 inch mufflers for turbo applications put on N/a vihicles (which actually makes you loose torque since you need backpressure) making it obsenely loud, were brought in my honda owners for the most part. that is WHY alot of people, aka, domestic lovers, HATE or stereotype everyone. personally, in some cases they are right - i hate carpet queens, its not even a car anymore. but posers is another story....

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
ahahahah again a mustang owner gets pissy. so your saying since i dont own a crappy cobra that was f'd from the factory I dont have th right to talk about it? uhhh riiight i came close to buying one awhile back then did some research and found a ton of interesting news that they were big piles of shit that didnt make the power they were supposed to. THE COBRA being Fords flagship muscle car.

and no one gives two shits about the trouble YOU had with a honda.. there's a reason Honda is always ranked higher than ford/chevy when it come to reliability and quality of materials. get over it.

I'm not really getting pissy...I'm explaining to you what you chose to leave out. I'm not saying since you don't OWN a cobra you can't say anything about them...I'm saying whatever "research" you did doesn't give you the knowledge required to bash them. That's like me bashing Accords or Civics...I know a little about them but not much really. Hell...I'll totally concede that the '99s were crap as far as the power adertised vs. what you got...but at least you could get them fixed at your convenience at no cost. But even then a lot of dynos showed that on quite a few cars the "fix" actually lowered numbers. As for my Honda experience, that was simply a reference. Does it matter if you care? No. And you're right...there.s a reason Honda/Toyota/Nissan are higher in owner reliability polls than domestics and it's for the very reason I listed. A lot of people have this idea that if it's "made in America" it's better, and for years that was true. But they haven't figured out that now everyone makes their cars the same way. So what's more American? A Toyota built in Kentucky or a Ford built in Mexico? So when a "domestic" breaks down people b*tch and moan and whine. Like with the '99 Cobras...It was big news when they didn't make as much power as they were supposed to but when Mazda misses the mark by 15%-20%, no one pitches a fit. Every car company has their lemons...that's hardly a debateable issue. Now as for my cubic inch arguement...it's a little different from what you call a "ricer" arguement. See...on the street kids use that defense at stoplight where they choose to race guys with bigger motors than theirs. When you bench race, the GT and Z28/Cobra and SS get lumped together purely by association. People assume they're in direct competition because their roughly the same trim levels but from 2 different companies. Maybe they are...I really don't know. What I DO know is that Chevy took the easy way out. If you look at changes made to the Camaro and Mustang respectively, you'll see that every year that the Cobra got stronger hp numbers, the next year GM would bump the Camaro up just high enough to claim superiority. It's easy to build a faster car once you know what the "competition" has.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
I'm not calling BS on you dingo...but you've can't be too suprised that some are having trouble swallowing this. Depending on which mag or site those numbers you posted came from, it may or may not be realistic. Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc. ALWAYS post WAY higher 1/4 times than real enthusiast mags. MM&FF consistently posts times sometimes as much as .5 seconds lower in the 1/4 with the same bone stock cars. Maybe C&D get "friday" cars and the enthusiast mags get the "wednesday" cars. But even bone stock a Cobra will wax an Accord. I'd say the 14.00 you quoted is probably closer to 13.8-13.7 with even a capable driver. On the flipside, I'd be suprised (not amazed, but suprised) if a good driver could wring a 14.3 out of an Accord. But hey...that's just me. I'm not saying you didn't beat the guy...it's quite possible. Hell...I beat a Camaro SS in my Slownoma because the guy was such a terrible driver. I'm just saying that something is wrong with this picture. Either the guy was a horrible driver, he wasn't trying, or something was wrong with his car.

I pulled those numbers from peoples personal website. Alot of the idiots on the internet don't understand not all people drive perfect. Im telling the story exactly as it happened. I didn't run away from the car, i inched. i actually didn't expect to win at all. Unlike the douche bag said before, i don't care what anyone thinks, or what they believe. Including him. I stated the story exactly as it happened.
I guarantee you that the 6sp pulls better numbers than that. There is an auto with an intake running 14.5s on one of the boards i visit.

Im going to ignore this rest of this thread, it pointless and i honestly don't give a shit what he thinks. I even asked my girlfriend what she thought of the way shit happened and she agreed he was racing, and trying. And the guy further proves that by waving and giving me the thumbs up when he passed.

It was mention later in this thread that maybe it was a fake SVT ( i just skimmed through the post didn't read them yet). It very could have been! I thought it was an SVT because it said SVT on the back. I also believe he had flow masters because he had the sticker on the window. But if it was infact not an SVT, then I guess that would make all mustang guy liars and prone to lie (accord to mustangman's philosophy)
I know it wasn't a GT because my old STOCK civic would hang with the GTs and beat the normal mustangs. The accord is almost a full 2 seconds faster than the my civic. So you can take that as you will.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
i liked the one about the wheel spin and anyway dyno numkbers are irrelevant if the driver is a tool.

I liked that too.lol

[MAXed Out]

me too

Originally posted by drdingo21

I know it wasn't a GT because my old STOCK civic would hang with the GTs and beat the normal mustangs.

[drdingo21]

jesus christ. You know they runs 15s? my civic ran high 15s low 16s. That would be hanging. My god. its like you don't have any common sense

stock ex? hahaha sure.

[drdingo21]

1/4 Mile ET 1/4 Mile MPH 1/8 Mile ET 1/8 Mile MPH 60 Foot ET Temp F Car Make Car Model Car Year Driver

15.000 91.000 73.000 7.300 Ford Mustang GT 1991 eddie

15.145 92.040 9.789 73.500 2.252 68.0 Ford Mustang GT 1998 Brandon Hall

15.200 92.000 Ford Mustang 2000 silver00v6

15.270 90.700 9.850 71.000 2.300 Ford Mustang 2000 jay

15.340 97.000 Ford Mustang 1965 Ed Jakawich

15.343* 88.660 9.777 72.030 2.240 39.0 Ford Mustang GT 1982 kyle magnuson

15.390 90.330 9.000 74.290 2.460 Ford Mustang GT 1994 Mr. J

15.440 92.800 61.0 Ford Mustang GT 1998 Craig Johannsen

15.944 89.070 10.366 70.530 2.621 89.0 Ford Mustang gt 1983 James Hartman


Yea they look like real speed deamons. Those are time from people not magiznes. There is about half a second differnce between them and the civic.

Before you start talking shit about something you nothing about (again) at least do a little researrch so you don't look like a complete idiot (again). Its painfuly obvious you have no idea what your saying (again).

wtf? a second is a huge difference. what was the last time you even been at the track? just f crist! keep it coming, im still laughin

[drdingo21]

yea a second is. but its less then half a second differnce moron. You need to either learn to read, or just get off the computer altoghter.

[drdingo21]

BTW, i never said beat, i said hang. I figure i better clarfiy that with you sense you don't seem all that inteligent.
Another thing to keep in mind is those times are people that can actually drive. I only ever raced 3 gts (got beat in the civic everytime) But it was never more than a car lenth, and that was when i quit racing.

Now stop being a asshat and arguing with me about nothing.

[AzCivic]

to all the retards to who dont have a clue as to what their talking about: shut the **** up.

jeez. you make me laugh. theres a reason most serious import inthusiasts laugh at majority of honda guys. go shine your clearlights. hang. hahah . any car can tecnically hang. ****in le baron can "hang" you are nothing more than a poser. grow up, when you are among serious people and dont base your assumption on Fast and the Furious movies, than we will talk. jeez...

[drdingo21]

lol. I don't understand. I show you that mustangs are as slow as a civic, and you tell me to grow up? Well, im also a domestic guy, and own a lexus, so i guess im not jsut a honda guy, i must be putting the bad name on everyone then huh?

And the reasone "any car can hang with mustang gt is because they are slow, you stupid pervert. Thats the whole point behind it. Its almost like i have to explian every thing i type in great detail just so you can comprehend it.

[GT40FIED]

I'm sorry, but I gotta agree with 240sxhoe here. When my '84 was bone stock motor-wise (only mod was exhaust) I could pull on stock Civics...and that was with a whopping 150hp (stock rated at 140hp w/ CFI). And as for owning a Lexus being a domestic...I don't really consider that a domestic since it's owned and operated by Toyota...essentially being an extention of said company. I find that people identify domestics and imports by the company's base of operation. So yeah...I'd call a Lexus an import.

[drdingo21]

I got to thinking. And this will be my last attempt to show you two idiots how wrong you are. I will be completly unbiased and use everyone elses 1/4 times. These will all be taken from v6perforamce.net

First run ever: 14.562 @ 95.34 mph
My launch was pretty decent: 2.279 60 foot- I let out relatively slowly at about 2000 rpms and had mad wheel hop (thank you Honda for no LSD )
My 1->2->3 shifts were good but my 3->4 was too early, and it sucks I had to shift right before hitting the 1/4 mile mark (my 3->4 shiftpoint is 92 mph).

That was is first time ever at the track and he manged a 14.5.

Saw a stock 7th gen. run a 14.1 at E-Town Sunday. I spoke to the guy later that day and I told him about this site. Hope he posts his slip here. I couldn't believe it was stock! Those 6 speeds are pretty damn quick!

75 degrees and 80% humidity

R/T .855
60' 2.33
330 5.996
1/8 9.105
MPH 78.95
1000 11.905
1/4 14.311
MPH 98.69


I ran a total of 7 times ( 3-14.3's, 2-14.4's, 1-14.5's, and one 14.703 w/2.6 60' time

Well ill be damed. All those are right around the mustang.

2nd run. Skipped the water, did a dry whole shot. Launched at about 1000rpm and went into the throttle real easy. As the tires spun, I kind of feathered the throttle. Tires still spun too much, but turned out the best run out of the 4.
r/t .265
60' 2.241
330 5.967
1/8 8.983
mph 79.16
1000 11.640
1/4 13.845
mph 102.02
With some wider tires, like a 245/40 on a 17x8in. rim, I dont see what would stop me from lowering my 60' down in the 2.oxx time and get me a 13.6x 1/4. I would be able to launch around 1200-1500rpm and wot, plus I would be running a smaller diameter tire for quicker rpms and my wheel/tire combo would be a little lighter then what I have now.


3rd run. I thought I would be able to beat my 2nd run and got to anxious on the throttle. Again, couldnt keep control of the tires spinning.
r/t .511
60' 2.592
330 6.591
1/8 9.671
mph 77.22
12.365
1/4 14.606
mph 99.93

All those guys must be idiots also huh? I pulled those of the first page only. Keep in mind that all v6 perfomance. not just accords.
You guys need to stop being so god damed narrow minded. The mustangs suck dick. period. The only one worth anything are the new 2003+ corbras.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
And as for owning a Lexus being a domestic...I don't really consider that a domestic since it's owned and operated by Toyota...essentially being an extention of said company. I find that people identify domestics and imports by the company's base of operation. So yeah...I'd call a Lexus an import.

and own a lexus,

And being the keyword there.
Im well aware of who they are owned by.

[drdingo21]

Also after look further at the mustang specs, they suck at the twisties. I dunno how accurate this is but after a quick search the 2003 cobras only pull .85?

*edit*http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...h1/index1.html
.82?
And almost the exact performance acceration perfomance of my car?

[GT40FIED]

Alright...call me and whoever else an idiot all you want but it won't change the fact that you're wrong. The numbers you're using are unofficial stuff from other sites and for all you know could be totally lies. Then there's the driver factor. Either you're driver of the year or the guys you race are absolutely horrible, yet I find it hard to believe you'd consistently find all of these terrible drivers. Again with the Motor Trend...don't put stock in ANYTHING you read there as far as their tests...they're always way off on just about every stat vs. other publications, namely enthusiast mags when the tests are conducted by people who ACTUALLY know how to drive a car hard. And did I read that right? Did you just compare your car favorably to an '03 Cobra? The '03 Cobras will without a doubt blow the doors off of ANY Honda product perhaps short of an S2000 (and that would have to be on a road course). Again, you're trusting Motor Trend. They're so used to testing FWD cars I think they've forgotten how to drive a RWD car with real power. So please, before you go around calling other people idiots, consider the source. I've actually tried to be fairly respectful so far...I just disagreed. But if you're gonna be a dick about it then people will ignore everything you say...and not just because you're wrong.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Alright...call me and whoever else an idiot all you want but it won't change the fact that you're wrong. The numbers you're using are unofficial stuff from other sites and for all you know could be totally lies.

Those are numbers other drivers are getting. I don't understand you. I posted links to magzines and you say that the drivers will do better. I post links to drivers and you say they are lies? They are numbers froma forum just like this one.

And did I read that right? Did you just compare your car favorably to an '03 Cobra? The '03 Cobras will without a doubt blow the doors off of ANY Honda product perhaps short of an S2000 (and that would have to be on a road course). Again, you're trusting Motor Trend. They're so used to testing FWD cars I think they've forgotten how to drive a RWD car with real power. So please, before you go around calling other people idiots, consider the source. I've actually tried to be fairly respectful so far...I just disagreed. But if you're gonna be a dick about it then people will ignore everything you say...and not just because you're wrong.

no you didn't read that right. I wasn't comapring anything. I asked. Hence the "?"

Im not trying to be a dick. I told you i beat that svt and i told you how i beat. People called BS on me i post number that show they are about equal in performance and you call me a dick? If you don't like it, then stop reading the thread. Plain and simple.

[AzCivic]

if the stupid new cobra is dyno'ing so great why is it getting trap speeds just shy of the regular vette? oh wait i just found where the cobra weighs like 3800lbs, awesome

oh and i think it was asked earlier why people dont get all butt hurt when an import dyno's a little less than advertised, one: performance minded people do get butt hurt...two:most people can over look one flaw if everything else is up to par, unlike in the mustang where everything(according to actual owners, i myself am not stupid enough to buy one) is crappy.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
if the stupid new cobra is dyno'ing so great why is it getting trap speeds just shy of the regular vette? oh wait i just found where the cobra weighs like 3800lbs, awesome

Oh this I love. So many people can't take the fact that the Mustang is where it's at performance-wise they've started comparing it to a Vette. Right...the Mustang which was never supposed to be in the same league as the Corvette and costs around $15K-$20K less. And not only were people comparing it to the Vette...but to the uber-Vette, the Z06 and it STILL made a pretty good stand. Does that answer your question?

Dingo...look, you read too much into stuff. Not once have I stated that you or anyone else was lying. I just stated possibilities specifically to AVOID calling anyone a liar. I'm not saying you didn't beat the guy, I'm just saying it's a little hard to swallow in a straight up race and that some of the facts you used to back it up may not be so reliable. That's all. I remember once years ago some douche in an Escort actually wanted to race me. Light turned green and as soon as I hit the throttle a wire going to my MSD box snapped. I didn't get more than 10ft and the car just died. I'm sure that guy went out and told all of his friends how he kicked this Mustang's ass. I just think the Cobra is a little faster than you're giving it credit for and your Accord may be a little slower than you think.

it sounds like your getting some major bullshit from Import tuner. your mind is ****ed by ricer magazines. STOCK ex civic will never run 14s. stock SR runs low 14s.

please stop the bullshit. you have no idea what are you talking
about.


yea, i bet you one of those guys that think "vtec is just like turbo"

there will never be a civic ex STOCK running low 15s either. no power beyond turbo. amen.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Oh this I love. So many people can't take the fact that the Mustang is where it's at performance-wise they've started comparing it to a Vette. Right...the Mustang which was never supposed to be in the same league as the Corvette and costs around $15K-$20K less. And not only were people comparing it to the Vette...but to the uber-Vette, the Z06 and it STILL made a pretty good stand. Does that answer your question?

what should the cobra be compared to, an element?

btw the price difference is only about 8k$, not 15-20

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by 240sxhoe
it sounds like your getting some major bullshit from Import tuner. your mind is ****ed by ricer magazines. STOCK ex civic will never run 14s. stock SR runs low 14s.

please stop the bullshit. you have no idea what are you talking
about.


yea, i bet you one of those guys that think "vtec is just like turbo"

there will never be a civic ex STOCK running low 15s either. no power beyond turbo. amen.

once again you're a retard.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
what should the cobra be compared to, an element?

btw the price difference is only about 8k$, not 15-20

Well...unfortunately Mustangs became so popular that it forced Chevy to halt production of the Camaro/TA platform. Now they've got the GTO...but we'll all have to wait and see what that does.

$8K? Are you f@cking joking? I was a little off, but base of both models are a $10K difference. Besides, with a Vette you're buying a name. If you took $2K of that money you'd save you could easily out handle and out accelerate a Vette and you'd have a car that you could be proud of...not one you just drove off a showroom floor. I'm sure when Ford starts production of the GT (not the Mustang, the new GT40 style GT) you'll compare it to a Lambo since it (according to Motor Trend or Road & Track or one of those shitty mags which you guys put sooooo much faith in) handed a Ferrari Modena it's ass on a road course.

[AzCivic]

msrp cobra 35k, msrp vette 43k, simple math man.

what are you talking about, now your bringing the GT40 into all this!?!? lets compare it to the C5-R then.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
msrp cobra 35k, msrp vette 43k, simple math man.

what are you talking about, now your bringing the GT40 into all this!?!? lets compare it to the C5-R then.

Ok...we're obviously getting our prices from different places. I've got the MSRP of a Cobra at $34K and a Vette at $44K. As for where the GT fits into all of this, it's a simple matter of comparison. You can't compare a Vette with a Cobra no more than you can compare the GT with an Italian supercar because they're not made to be in direct competition. It either says something really good about Ford that they're comparing the Cobra to a Vette or it says something bad about Chevy that Ford's lowely Mustang has come up to take on the Vette.

[AzCivic]

what else is there to compare it(vette) too? a viper? it already dominates that in racing.

[AzCivic]

i just did a search for msrp's and got cobra of 35k and the vette at 43.

[drdingo21]

Originally posted by GT40FIED

Dingo...look, you read too much into stuff. Not once have I stated that you or anyone else was lying. I just stated possibilities specifically to AVOID calling anyone a liar. I'm not saying you didn't beat the guy, I'm just saying it's a little hard to swallow in a straight up race and that some of the facts you used to back it up may not be so reliable. That's all. I remember once years ago some douche in an Escort actually wanted to race me. Light turned green and as soon as I hit the throttle a wire going to my MSD box snapped. I didn't get more than 10ft and the car just died. I'm sure that guy went out and told all of his friends how he kicked this Mustang's ass. I just think the Cobra is a little faster than you're giving it credit for and your Accord may be a little slower than you think.

Nothing I have said has been aimed at you. I don't think my accord is insanely fast. I do have respect for the new cobras but thats it. An model below that is slow. I posted links to several websites that show the cobra I raced running around the same numbers as my car. All I did was post a story that happened. Then a couple of idiots told me I was lying so I posted more than enough proof to prove otherwise.
I understand your story, but this was not the case considering to the amount of speed we got to and I was still slowly pulling away from him. And the thumbs up and nod. It was a race plain and simple that he lost and he signaled good race.

it sounds like your getting some major bullshit from Import tuner. your mind is ****ed by ricer magazines. STOCK ex civic will never run 14s. stock SR runs low 14s.

please stop the bullshit. you have no idea what are you talking
about.


yea, i bet you one of those guys that think "vtec is just like turbo"

there will never be a civic ex STOCK running low 15s either. no power beyond turbo. amen.

As azcivic pointed out (don’t you think that’s weird we both think the same way?), you’re a moron again.

I never said the civic runs low 14s. Hell I even posted times from peoples website of the mustang at mid 15s. To me anything at or below a 15.3 is low 15s so I think its quite possible for a civic to run low 15s with bolt-ons.

still winning is winning. hanging does not count. your stock civic ex dx and bblah blah blah other trims maybe besides SI suck big dick stock. Vtec or not, stock is still sub-110 hp. crankhp is always higher. you will never win without serious power application, aka Turbo. amen.

you can hang with any car, but you will never beat it. you if you have no strong middle range you are ****ed. learn a little more about engines and how things work. maybe will help. if you want ill post some websites you can kinda glare at the concept.

you think bolt ons are that efficient? please! what the ****! you spend 1500 on h/i/e to get what? mac gain of 15 horseS? dynos in magazines lie, you will find it out years later. why not spend around 6grand on rebuild and turbo setup? that is where real power is. you are such a ricer.