80 Something Probe GT V.S. 91 Accord

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by mx6gt91
I hope you were being a smart ass, yes he has a boost controller and a 3in turbo back.



When i was stock i beat a RSX Type-S, and the V6's are just about the same in stock form as the turbo 1st gen.

I havent been beat by any Honda/Acrua that i have raced yet, so i dont know what your talking about



our stock turbos are about the size of your fist, they top out at about 12-15psi.



Are you trying to say that working on your car is easier than changing an engine. we all know that, and just to let you know the FE3 uses the F2T(turbo engine) tranny, it can use the ECU, along with the original mounts and axels. So pretty much nothing has to be replaced for the FE3.

I guess people where right when they say that mustang owners are assholes

ok first off imma come straight out and say i dont like you, obviously you cant take in words of wisdom and choose to flame me for trying to make you see my side of the arguement.... ok now with that said its great you havent been beaten by any hondas or acuras, neither have i, but then again YOU had to mod to get to that point, your high 15 car stock would basically be lunchmeat for a gsr from anything other than a stop, so thats like me saying well my car smokes vettes ( I HAD TO MOD TO GET THERE) wake up your car (and my car when it comes to vettes) was slower stock, so your arguement holds absolutely no validity except to yourself. great you beat a rsx when you were stock that means you beat a low 15 second CAPABLE car, probably on a low 16 run because he sucked at driving.

and just to let you know the FE3 uses the F2T(turbo engine) tranny, it can use the ECU, along with the original mounts and axels. So pretty much nothing has to be replaced for the FE3.

no kidding thats what i said.


oh and a v6 probe is NOTHING like the turbo 4 and its a 16 second performer. its a disgrace stock (SEE FIRST POST ON THIS PAGE), id love to see your face when you see a stock v6 probe go up against a stock civic si..... but dont look at me ive only seen it and been in those cars.

Theres an aftermarket for EVERYTHING so theres no point in argueing about the cars stock and how they respond.
I was argueing they suck stock, then you come spewing that motor swaps = teh good!

Well no shit a 460 in my 2640lb notchback would do wonders too!

so basically when all's said an done im a asshole for stating facts am i correct?or am i an asshole because YOU didnt like the TONE of my posts? I dont know why i try to defend myself when people call me out because most of them have nothing to offer but there own opinions on me because they dont like what i said. But then again your entitled to it, if you find that 16 second 1/4 mile performance is not slow then I AM WRONG, its basically opinion based what were argueing neway.

[ShEaNy]

im guessing the tone....but i know nothing about fords..soo ill let u handle it more 50forlife lol

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by sheany_91accord
im guessing the tone....but i know nothing about fords..soo ill let u handle it more 50forlife lol

he originally called me out because he had a mazda that was basically just like the car in question, and thought hed shed light to every one of us here... well "some" of us already knew about both those cars and what they are capable of, so i guess that makes us ignorant for stating facts to help you out in your question about how these cars perform stock

damn man even matrix took offense when i bashed the v6 probe, now hes the moderator and hes obviously knows a helluva lot but BOTH gens of these cars were disgraces to forward accelleration STOCK ESPECIALLY the anemic v-6 as stated above, and shouldnt be held in high esteem because some people set benchmarks for mere fluke victories.

[ShEaNy]

ya i see exactly what ur saying..lol....ah well....

*sighs* When ignorance reigns, the world is lost... Yes ignorant are YOU..

I hate to shun light on you, Mr. Mustang, but you are the owner of a domestic car, are you not? This happens to be an import car thread, and Ford must be some really crappy engineers if they needed to use the Mazda 2.2l for the probe? Do you see Mazda using Ford parts? HELL NO! We like our cars to get good gas mileage and last longer.

Anyways, my MX6 GT is completely stock except for the MBC (Manual Boost Controller) and I am currently running 16 PSI... And let me tell you, I take down SIs, GSRs, and yes sir Mustangs.

That's basically stock.. No intake, no upgraded downpipe or exhaust, just a MBC that cost me $60, and gave me an estimated 80hp gain (not at the wheel obviously).

You know how much an FE3 engine swap costs? $600 for the engine with 30k miles on it. Know how much for a professional install? $500. Know how much an upgraded Turbo that will fit on the FE3 costs? The Garrett T3/T04 costs $500. Looks like my car will be 400whp, and 390lb tq+ for a grand total of $1600.

Of course that doesn't include exhaust, and all the other little goodies, but those won't hurt the wallet too much to take into consideration.

And yes on www.mx6.com (when it comes back up) there's threads about prick Mustang owners, and you seem to be one of the many giving them this stereotype, hope your happy.

BTW Our car looks a lot better than a 5.0 anyways, LOL

Mazda>Ford.

MAZDA

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by Redman
*sighs* When ignorance reigns, the world is lost... Yes ignorant are YOU..

I hate to shun light on you, Mr. Mustang, but you are the owner of a domestic car, are you not? This happens to be an import car thread, and Ford must be some really crappy engineers if they needed to use the Mazda 2.2l for the probe? Do you see Mazda using Ford parts? HELL NO! We like our cars to get good gas mileage and last longer.

1.let me start my reply by saying Ford>MAzda because FORD OWNS MAZDA YOU STUPID MOTHERF*CKER!

2. last time i checked that makes you the same as me on this forum just another "outcast" domestic car owner

3. mazda doesnt use ford parts right? please tell me your joking, MAZDA NAVAJO! its a rebadge ford explorer!..... wait a minute, why am i argueing i already said mazda was OW3ND by ford.

4. last time i checked even though this is an import site, they allow people from all walks of life to post because, argueing with yourself would get quite boring wouldnt it? they allow others on to not only shed new light on some subjects but to offer diversity.

Anyways, my MX6 GT is completely stock except for the MBC (Manual Boost Controller) and I am currently running 16 PSI... And let me tell you, I take down SIs, GSRs, and yes sir Mustangs.

That's basically stock.. No intake, no upgraded downpipe or exhaust, just a MBC that cost me $60, and gave me an estimated 80hp gain (not at the wheel obviously).

ok so your car went from a 16 second warrior to mustang slayer in 1 mod? BULLSHIT. let me begin to tell you why:

1st:

our stock turbos are about the size of your fist, they top out at about 12-15psi

this is a quote from your fellow mx6 brethren if what he says is true, then what you say isnt... and for some reason i believe him over you, just call it a hunch from your lack of knowledge on mazda's background

2nd: could be wrong but the last time i checked your car was equipped with a 4wd system that severly limited your topend potential (COULD BE WRONG I SAW IT SOMEWHERE) if this is true even 9 more psi couldnt save you from a rolling start.

3rd: not to mention you just completely upped the bar on the car without doing 1 OTHER MOD??? cmon you wouldnt been left calling triple a long ago, not to mention you didnt do a thing to fuel delivery or fuel spark curves?? not even a regulator? this wouldnt allow for much gain. GO HOME TROLL NO ONE BELIEVES YOU.

You know how much an FE3 engine swap costs? $600 for the engine with 30k miles on it. Know how much for a professional install? $500. Know how much an upgraded Turbo that will fit on the FE3 costs? The Garrett T3/T04 costs $500. Looks like my car will be 400whp, and 390lb tq+ for a grand total of $1600.

Of course that doesn't include exhaust, and all the other little goodies, but those won't hurt the wallet too much to take into consideration.

i dont know where to begin here either ok

1st: so your paying 600 for someone elses beater motor?

2nd: proffesional install is 500 dollars. sounds like a backyard hack shop. name 1 legitimate shop that will swap a motor for 500

3rd: ok it "looks" like your car will be 400whp? keep dreaming theres a lot more too it than some idiot slapping a boost controller on it and paying a hack shop to install a motor to getting 400whp. welcome to tuning 101.

And yes on www.mx6.com (when it comes back up) there's threads about prick Mustang owners, and you seem to be one of the many giving them this stereotype, hope your happy.

BTW Our car looks a lot better than a 5.0 anyways, LOL

now dont i feel owned... THERE IS A "THREAD" ABOUT PRICK MUSTANG OWNERS??? OH NO! LET ME RUN FOR THE HILLS!
that doesnt prove a damn thing, and if the mx6 registry is anything like the what has been shown here i could care less what those idiots think. there are bad examples of owners of every walk of nameplate sporting life.

so what your saying (and the other mx6 owner [at least this one KNOWS what hes talking about ]) is that im an ignorant mustang hick for saying that probes, and mx6's and anything else that sported the 2.2L sohc turbo motor stock was a disgrace stock? well then im a hick because it is. AND THATS ALL I SAID, then i get mx6 monkeys jumping down my back clawing my eyes out telling me im wrong because theyve modded there car and its fast.

im glad you think your car looks better than a 5.0 thats why your entitled to your own opinion, but its my opinion you live in a dream world when you speak of forward motion.

Mazda>Ford.

MAZDA

yup i think you cant own yourself anymore in a thread.

poor redman....

[ShEaNy]

lol...wwooww....

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by sheany_91accord
lol...wwooww....

hehe i take pride in calling bs

[ShEaNy]

i can see that for the last two pages..lol

Tuning 101 eh? What do you think a professional install does? Especially the shops around my area. LOL. You think you know soooo much but you have no clue, stick to your Mustangs.



And for your information my engine will be installed by www.corksport.com they are located in Portland, OR and are Mazda specialists.

Go read up on the FE3, go read up on lots of things, THEN and only then will I listen to your so called "calling BS" rants.

k thx bye.

Oh another thing, I am not an avid reader of this board, but some of threads I have read, all you do is argue with people? Real life gotcha down? Feel like you got nothing left but to argue virtually?



And to make it even worst you are arguing on a HONDA dominant board.. I mean come on, you have a 5.0 that would obviously spank the crap out of any Honda, and I think the reason you arguing with Mx6gt91, and myself is because for under $2000 we'll be faster than you by a good amount.

But you'll again reply with your witty remarks and everyone else on this board who doesn't know crap will be like "oooo wow "

lol.

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by Redman
Tuning 101 eh? What do you think a professional install does? Especially the shops around my area. LOL. You think you know soooo much but you have no clue, stick to your Mustangs.



And for your information my engine will be installed by www.corksport.com they are located in Portland, OR and are Mazda specialists.

Go read up on the FE3, go read up on lots of things, THEN and only then will I listen to your so called "calling BS" rants.

k thx bye.

dude im done argueing with you, if you didnt know that mazda was owned by ford you obviously are just here to stir shit up. i have no clue right? sure, ill let the people who read your posts judge be the judge of who has and who doesnt.

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by Redman

And to make it even worst you are arguing on a HONDA dominant board.. I mean come on, you have a 5.0 that would obviously spank the crap out of any Honda, and I think the reason you arguing with Mx6gt91, and myself is because for under $2000 we'll be faster than you by a good amount.

i take my previous remark back, i will continue, get some reciepts or stfu. you dont have the motor, you dont have mods, your running 16psi on a car without even a fuel pressure regulator to tune it, and a turbo that only does 12-15 safely (if your boy is right), and i hate to tell you but for 2K and mod for mod your a ****ing fool if you think you can come close to an equally modded and driven fox body.


People have gotten fox bodies into the 11's with cam, gears, and full exhaust and slicks, trophy stock class is dominated by someone running 11.6 on DOT tires, and a fox body with a stock 1987 mustang camshaft, and boltons with stock gt-40 casting heads from a 93 cobra UNTOUCHED, and a ford explorer 5.0 intake manifold, not bad for STOCK parts with boltons huh?
his name is robin lawrence. btw the motor dynoed 380.8hp and 413.5 ft lbs of torque at don west dyno service. THIS IS STOCK PARTS WITH BOLTONS!

but thats ok cause just like any other idiot all you see if ragged out 5.0's that are bone stock that time has shit on, combined with bad drivers that think there cocky.

5.0's in good running condition are capable of 13 second 1/4 miles right out of the factory floor

mx6's are not, and you are NOT i repeat NOT gonna catch up with a mere boost controller, and filling your gastank up with hopes and dreams. your an idiot, even when your proven wrong you come back here to argue merely for the SAKE of argueing im on here TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE ****ING QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED IN THIS THREAD, IM SORRY YOU DONT LIKE THE TRUTH BUT YOUR CARS ARE DOGS stock.

p.s. even the ****ing site you gave me showed the motors at a healthy 1800 dollars for the turbo 4 bangers that fit in the mx6's so what was the point of giving me that site if it made you look even stupider?

See dude this is what I mean don't talk crap when you don't know the facts, the stock ECU for the 88-92 Mazda MX6 GT is programmed to map the fuel curve up to 12 PSI, I know you didn't know that, but that's my point you are here to bash everyone who isn't MUSTANG.

And for your information I do have an ECU upgrade that also cost me $60, what does it do? Well it makes the car idle better, it get rid of the flat spot on the fuel map, it takes away boost cut and fuel cut, and it remaps the fuel curve all the way up to 20PSI.

Now onto another lesson, the MX6 GT cannot exceed 16PSI without upgrading the fuel pump, the injectors and adding a FPR (fuel pressure regulator). This you were sort of correct on, but not really.

Now I bet your asking, "Ok so when you upgrade the turbo and want to boost beyond 16PSI, what do you do?"

Well jerky, Jay B from Maxx-Motorsports.com offers a wide variety of ECU upgrades, from 440cc supra injector programmed chips, to 650cc.

And stop sending me PMs... it's frightening to say the least

P.S I am running a dual stage TurboXS boost controller, with settings of 12PSI and 16PSI, my A/F guage says it's A-Okay, and you're saying I can't run that high of boost on a stock car? You, my friend have a lot to learn.

I suggest you go read up, as I said in my previous post about our cars before spouting off and trying to look cool infront of the Honda dominant crowd. I guess you must of not drove your mommy's probe to often, eh?

This is also my last post, so please again stop the PMs, just stop replying, accept defeat in its' rawest form, you didn't know anything about the MX6, but decided to voice your insufficent opinion and all your inaccurate facts.

BTW I must say, 16.0? Some stock guys have ran 15.3-15.7 bone-dry stock. Little off topic, but god man, you really don't know jack crap.

Alright after reading the rest of your last post, I too will revoke my last statement and continue this..

When the **** did I say 5.0 are slow? They are a domestic car, there's really no comparison between a Honda, a Mazda and a 5.0 Mustang.. That's why I ask why the hell are you here to argue? You obviously have the quickest car... STOCK, but dude honestly stop arguing.. Is someone compensating for a lack of a... haha you know what I mean

Anyways, you are the idiot, the FE3 isn't listed on www.corksport.com, or www.maxx-motorsports.com, you have to call and order it.. IDIOT!

Secondly, an engine swap isn't just a mod, it's an engine swap.. It will drastically change the outcome of a 1/4 time 0-60 time, so don't give me that bullshit that it's "just a mod".

Thirdly, stop sending me PMs telling me to stop arguing and then I see you back on here spouting off again.

Fourth, YOU DON'T KNOW JACKSHIT, ONCE AGAIN STICK TO YOUR 5.0

Fifth, this is my last response, so hope you are happy to most likely have the last word since I already know that you'll reply.

Congradulation! You got the last word on an internet argument, what's next the special olympics?

allright this is going well.

.yes its true i have killed many Mustangs with my car also.

.i havent heards of any 4WD systems for the mx6 besides the the Japan modles. all ive heard of is the 4WS, which i have.

.these cars are only dogs with bad drivers, people that can drive can get a low 15 to high 14 in our cars stock.

.same with the civic SI, the best ive seen them stock do is 15.9, that doesnt seem to good for me. my friend has one and shes got CAI, Headers, cat-back, fuel pressure regulator. her best time is 15.4, and shes a great driver. the onyl problem is she cant get traction.

same with these cars, ya FWD cars have problems with traction. and we all know hondas have LOTS of torque

my car has 190tq stock, when the car wasnt lowered i would spin the wheels through the end of 2nd with the tire pressure lowered. with that i still pulled a 15.6 at my best.

Why does it matter, i think this post is done. it was fun!!!

I think its funny that knowone with Hondas are adding to this, just those Mustang owners!!

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by Redman
See dude this is what I mean don't talk crap when you don't know the facts, the stock ECU for the 88-92 Mazda MX6 GT is programmed to map the fuel curve up to 12 PSI, I know you didn't know that, but that's my point you are here to bash everyone who isn't MUSTANG.

And for your information I do have an ECU upgrade that also cost me $60, what does it do? Well it makes the car idle better, it get rid of the flat spot on the fuel map, it takes away boost cut and fuel cut, and it remaps the fuel curve all the way up to 20PSI.

So you upgraded your ecu, eh? i knew there was another factor involved, and no i didnt know the ecu mapped the fuel curves to 12psi but i knew to be able to RUN your car hard without causing a lean condition that would sieze the motor up there had to BE SOMETHING DONE. and how does that prove im here to bash everything non mustang?

Now onto another lesson, the MX6 GT cannot exceed 16PSI without upgrading the fuel pump, the injectors and adding a FPR (fuel pressure regulator). This you were sort of correct on, but not really.

Now I bet your asking, "Ok so when you upgrade the turbo and want to boost beyond 16PSI, what do you do?"

Well jerky, Jay B from Maxx-Motorsports.com offers a wide variety of ECU upgrades, from 440cc supra injector programmed chips, to 650cc.

actually you only REALLY NEED bigger injectors when you surpass a certain amount of hp, but im sure you knew that.

And stop sending me PMs... it's frightening to say the least

P.S I am running a dual stage TurboXS boost controller, with settings of 12PSI and 16PSI, my A/F guage says it's A-Okay, and you're saying I can't run that high of boost on a stock car? You, my friend have a lot to learn.

oh shit my bust! your a/f guage says its A-Okay! ROFLMFAO you can run rich all you want but you can only run truely lean once, just thought id let you know.

I suggest you go read up, as I said in my previous post about our cars before spouting off and trying to look cool infront of the Honda dominant crowd. I guess you must of not drove your mommy's probe to often, eh?

This is also my last post, so please again stop the PMs, just stop replying, accept defeat in its' rawest form, you didn't know anything about the MX6, but decided to voice your insufficent opinion and all your inaccurate facts.

BTW I must say, 16.0? Some stock guys have ran 15.3-15.7 bone-dry stock. Little off topic, but god man, you really don't know jack crap.

actually i really dont care for mx-6's and i know all i NEED to know about them, and if i screw up factually im sure you would let me know i drove my moms probe all the time, still didnt make it any quicker. i will accept defeat if you can tell me what the hell it is you defeated me in.

and i must say you did get me wrong on the 16.0 part, i didnt know they ran that 'quick' stock. i just based my statement on watching countless modded ones at the track not breaking 16's and a couple i street raced and how i walked on them. this one i raced at a stoplight i can tell you for sure (on halloween night actually i posted the kill here) i dont know what he had aside from a monster tach w/ shift light but when we left i left slowly and once i saw the light blip i knew he was going for it and left him. ive had a harder time leaving some of my freinds stock beaters (i.e. 16-17 second cars) than that car.

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by Redman
Alright after reading the rest of your last post, I too will revoke my last statement and continue this..

When the **** did I say 5.0 are slow? They are a domestic car, there's really no comparison between a Honda, a Mazda and a 5.0 Mustang.. That's why I ask why the hell are you here to argue? You obviously have the quickest car... STOCK, but dude honestly stop arguing.. Is someone compensating for a lack of a... haha you know what I mean

you didnt say 5.0's were slow and i never said you did, and yes there really is no real comparison between hondas and mazdas and fords and hondas, but there IS BETWEEN FORDS AND MAZDAS, because ford owns mazda. im NOT here to argue i was here to simply answer the question that was on page 1 of this thread, and you called me out, so here i am your majesty. the one that called your cars dogs. STOCK. and they are, all of em, ever last one is slow as hell stock. sorry you dont like it, then you respond with MAZDA>FORD and ever since then the arguement has strayed from original subject.

Anyways, you are the idiot, the FE3 isn't listed on www.corksport.com, or www.maxx-motorsports.com, you have to call and order it.. IDIOT!

Secondly, an engine swap isn't just a mod, it's an engine swap.. It will drastically change the outcome of a 1/4 time 0-60 time, so don't give me that bullshit that it's "just a mod".

Thirdly, stop sending me PMs telling me to stop arguing and then I see you back on here spouting off again.

Fourth, YOU DON'T KNOW JACKSHIT, ONCE AGAIN STICK TO YOUR 5.0

Fifth, this is my last response, so hope you are happy to most likely have the last word since I already know that you'll reply.

Congradulation! You got the last word on an internet argument, what's next the special olympics?

first then why the hell did you give me the address to that site? give me the addy to a site that has a 600 dollar motor with a 500 dollar COMPLETE INSTALL AND PROFESSIONAL TUNE, and ill shut up.

2nd LOL when did i say an engine swap is a mod? i was commenting on how YOU guys make it seem like only a mod and your using my end arguement.

something to the effect of ALL I GOT TO DO IS THROW A 600 DOLLAR FE3 MOTOR IN?

3rd i sent you a pm to tell you that your a 1 post wonder starting trouble on this board.

4th if you say so it must be true

[ford50forlife]

Originally posted by mx6gt91
allright this is going well.

.yes its true i have killed many Mustangs with my car also.

well with 200whp and 297 ft lbs of tq you should be suprised if you didnt. your boy is the one i pry, you have your head on straight and seem to be down to earth about things.

.i havent heards of any 4WD systems for the mx6 besides the the Japan modles. all ive heard of is the 4WS, which i have.

your right im wrong like i said i didnt know for sure.

.these cars are only dogs with bad drivers, people that can drive can get a low 15 to high 14 in our cars stock.

.same with the civic SI, the best ive seen them stock do is 15.9, that doesnt seem to good for me. my friend has one and shes got CAI, Headers, cat-back, fuel pressure regulator. her best time is 15.4, and shes a great driver. the onyl problem is she cant get traction.

id have to see some verification about the 14 mark to believe it something about the power to weight just doesnt add up. musta been a nittos run with powershifting and a great track prep.

why does you freind have a fpr on a basically stock n/a car? isnt really much to tune if the motor is stock.

same with these cars, ya FWD cars have problems with traction. and we all know hondas have LOTS of torque

my car has 190tq stock, when the car wasnt lowered i would spin the wheels through the end of 2nd with the tire pressure lowered. with that i still pulled a 15.6 at my best.

15.6 is respectable, but to spin the wheels to the top of 2nd gear would mean the people at the track should be demoted for not prepping the track. thats ridiculous.

Why does it matter, i think this post is done. it was fun!!!

I think its funny that knowone with Hondas are adding to this, just those Mustang owners!!

dont forget mx6 owners...

[ShEaNy]

k someone stop this madness right now...game set and match...OVER...

[Kyle]

Originally posted by sheany_91accord
k someone stop this madness right now...game set and match...OVER...

lol...yeah...ford50 owned everyone...lol

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by Redman
Oh another thing, I am not an avid reader of this board, but some of threads I have read, all you do is argue with people? Real life gotcha down? Feel like you got nothing left but to argue virtually?



And to make it even worst you are arguing on a HONDA dominant board.. I mean come on, you have a 5.0 that would obviously spank the crap out of any Honda, and I think the reason you arguing with Mx6gt91, and myself is because for under $2000 we'll be faster than you by a good amount.

But you'll again reply with your witty remarks and everyone else on this board who doesn't know crap will be like "oooo wow "

lol.

Guess what Redman...I like to argue too. Well...more like piss people off. But you've crossed a line here. You think for $2000 you can be faster than a stock 5.0? You may be right...but you just wasted $2K. I'll bet I spent about $6-$7K building my motor, turbo and all but it will decimate most cars on the streets. But $2K to pull on a stock Mustang? You really shoot for the stars, huh? You'd like to believe that your car has a chance of being fast, but your confidence is sorely misplaced. If a Mustang owner used that same $2K you'd be crying that it wasn't a fair race. So just console yourself that all of us Mustang owners are pricks...whatever makes up for your feelings of inadequacy due to the fact that you drive a shitbox car. And yes, this is a Honda dominant board, but who says I can't like Fords and Hondas or Ferraris or Nissan or whatever. You seemed to have missed the entire point of all of this and I take pity on your sorry ass. You can knock Ford50 all you want, but he's right so shut your f*cking mouth.

Dammit, what the hell...?


CLOSED.

Originally posted by ford50forlife
ah the infamous 2.5L 164hp wonder and 160 WHOPPING v6 TORQUE at 4800 rpms (AND THATS THE LATER MODELS from 94+ WITH A BETTER TQ CURVE) the 93 had 156 piddly tq available to them at an attrociously 4000rpms

that means the h22a is just as torque heavy as this 6 cylinder.


moderator or not stock for stock they are slower in the 1/4 than both those cars with similar drivers. the torque isnt even that great to back up the 2 more cylinders, they are heavier and less powerful, and the 1/4 times are equally as bad.

Well, if you know anything about cars, then you woulfd nknopw that PEAK numbers don't tell the whole story. The curve and distribution of torque and horsepower over the rev range really determine what the car can do, as well as gear ratios.

Sure, the Probe and H22a may have similar peak torque numbers, but the PGT's torque curve is pretty flat, and spread out through the range. The Prelude doesn't hold that peak for long, maybe for 500-750 revs.

By the way, the V6 PGT's are only 16-sec runners in automatic form. 5-speeds are around 15.2-15.6 Now I never said that was blazingly fast or anything, but you mmight want to get the facts straight. They're right on par with the Si's and GS-R's.