Choice = Segregation

[Gone]

Here's the situation. I'm in a program that is attached to my high school, Lakewood High School, called CAT (Center for Advanced Technologies). My school is in one of the ghetto-ist places in St. Pete with mass numbers of small-large crime events.

A few years ago the Pinellas County Schoolboard began this program called Choice, which allowed students that are not in programs to pick whatever school they want to. Well the county never saw much positive feedback coming from this, instead they recieved negative feedback because down in the ghetto with the rednecks and blacks near most of the schools were getting pissed off because their kids weren't able to get into the nearest schools. Instead they were force to travel maybe 15 minutes to another school. Choice was basically running off of first come first serve.

We were getting new computers in our moronic multimedia class (intel duo processor, gig ram, some random graphic cards and shit, 20" widescreen monitors). So maybe 7 kids, including me were having a conversation with the teacher and he told us that they recently announced that next years school officials are going to be ridding schools of the racial percents allowed in public schools (excluding programs).

Most of the "minorities" of the school (oddly enough the actual minorities are white and asian) loathe the CAT students because "we think that we are better than them". Honestly I'm not going to lie but that is true, but it's not just that we think that, we are better. We get all the new technology in the school and they get our hand me downs. We installed their wireless network through the school because they didn't want to have someone install it. We give them a lot of our leftover shit. Statistically showing the CAT program has an overall rating of A x 3, while traditional lakewood has a rating of, if possible, 4 times lower than F. Which overall makes the school a D school.

Back to the point with no percentages, the school count is right now about 42% black. Next year it is estimated that over 93% of traditional lakwood is going to be black. 93 fucking percent. This doesn't affect me since I'm graduating but the fact behind it just pisses me off. The crime rate at my school alone is horrible and has been making parents of 8th graders not look into the program. Last year alone there was a reported 11 rapes AT SCHOOL alone. This in turn is ruining the CAT program because normally we get an estimated 1,500 applications to the school, but last year there was only 340 applications. We are required to take in the best but since only a handful of those 340 students are actual CAT material they are starting to make classes that are required to pass before you get into CAT, such as Algebra I Honors. The freshman even fought Newton's 3rd law that in each action their exists and opposite yet equal reaction.

There are two different subject here:
1) the death of one of the best programs in the nation
2) black kids are segregating themselves

Most of the black kids at my school will talk down to us when they are with all of their friends and such, but when I try to have a one on one conversation with them they refuse to talk to me because "CAT kids are such assholes because we get everything." One reason the school doesn't give them things is because they will steal/break it.

For God's sake, in the parking lot my friend's jeep got keyed 4 times this year, someone stole my friend, stevo's, passenger side mirror... JUST THE MIRROR not the housing, my friend, trav, has his car showered in some random shit nearly every week like bar-b-que sauce, and I find black kids drumming on the trunk of my car a few times.

The black kids that are in CAT are normally called "white washed" because they act differently. Those are the few I am friends with normally. I'm not racist against blacks... I'm racist against the stereotypical nature of how they perceive themselves and act. I love when my black friends in CAT talk back to the traditional students saying "I am not a fucking nigger you stupid morons, get the fuck away from me and never call me your nigger ever again. YOU SIR ARE THE NIGGER." and they fucking yell that shit at them.

I think this whole idea of destroying the percentages is the dumbest thing our county could have decided, beside the choice program. Blacks are putting themselves back into something they were in the past and they don't realize how stupid they act. Most of the kids drop out and wander the streets. Nothing uncommon in that.

Honestly I think they just need to make school optional down here. That is my opinion. Go if you want to lead a better life, don't go if you're too unmotivated to find x in 2x = 3 +3. Sadly most of the traditional students are taking Pre-Algebra and are failing. The average lakewood gpa is .94... That should speak for itself.

I'm done and I have to get some sleep. I gotta wake up to get back to that hell hole in the morning.

[GT40FIED]

Well...I think you're dealing with two factors...neither of which are necessarily racist.

On one hand you've got white guilt. A lot of white people have been tricked into thinking they owe a huge debt to blacks depite the fact that there are millions of black families and individuals living very comfortable lives in what you'd call upper or middle class walks of life. But most people are dupped into plans like this because, obviously, if you're not for it you're a racist. It's the same thing we do with jews. Back when Israel invaded Lebanon anyone who ever questioned whether or not it was right was labeled anti-semetic by a lot of media outlets. I know you're not exactly white, Darin's brother...but somehow this idea also gets extended to Asians as well (but not hispanics because they like to play the tormented minority card, too. Pussies.)

The second thing you're dealing with is simply black culture which is, I'm sad to say, pathetically contradictory. Everyone in the black community talks about moving themselves and their race forward, but as soon as someone actually does move forward in a walk of life not related to music or sports they're considered an "Uncle Tom" or a puppet of the white man. And, for some reason, "moving forward" usually means moving out of the ghetto which essentially means moving away from anyone like you. This especially includes rappers who move to Malibu and rap about how hard their lives are. Dipshits. A lot of blacks are also often brought up to regard their culture as more rich than other cultures. This is why things like black history month and the black movie awards exist. They're not better than any other cultural celebrations and are patently exclusionary...but it's "ethnic" so it's all ok (apparently).

The situation of your district is pretty unethical, but not really racist. Racism would be affirmative action...where people are awarded placement in schools and jobs based on race alone (read: anyone who's not white). Now THAT shit's just fucked up.

[Robert]

Be thankful you're leaving. Remember this for when you have kids.

I feel sorry for the girls that get rapped at school.

While I went to school there was nothing bad to speak off. In an odd occurances of events most of the students that didnt perform were kicked out of school. This left us with students who attended class. By grade 11 all of the punks were gone. By the time OAC (grade 13) came it was mostly all white with a few minorities.

I can't say I have any black friends, I have a few asian friends. I just dont relate to the 'gangstar' mentality so I stay clear of it.

[VR4_Craver]

This is the same problem I had with My high school. Everyone (media and officials) say that the minorities (blacks and mexicans) are "fighting" to make a living here and are dropping out of school. Truth be told, whites are the minorities. And they werent dropping out they were just not going. Regardless of what classes they had they fucked off in them and eventually failed it twice and gave up. The biggest problem with Northern Indiana is that with whites being the minority every time we have a problem and say that "some black or some mexican" did something to us we get labeled as a racist and harrassed more. Another thing that happens here is that the majority of the people here live on welfare. Black families have around 4 kids per family here and the mother dont work so they get on welfare. The mexicans, get 3-6 families living in one house, all on welfare, and all working, and drive around in new SUVs and other semi- expensive cars (ie. New Nisans or toyotas). Of course, doing this makes it so schools hand out more reduced/free lunches at school. Thereby, raising the book fees for everyone except those unable to pay (blacks and mexicans) All the time complaining how the "white man" doesnt help them and that they are discrimanated against. The truth is that these people live in the mindset that they cant make it and then they just dont try to make it.

[Robert]

If you want to be taken seriously, learn to check the launguage and remove the anger.

[GT40FIED]

You know Rob...I don't think that's so much anger as it is frustration. I don't know if Canada has half the bullshit laws regarding race that hurt a certain group of the population just to help another, but in my experience is that when this discussion comes up in America, white people vent. And I mean REALLY vent. The problem is that a lot of blacks feel persecuted and a lot of whites feel like they're getting fucked just because they're white. The trouble is, everyone's right. I mean...I'm all for equal opportunity laws that even the playing field, but laws like affirmative action just lower the standard. Everyone here grows up hearing that jobs go to the "best man" (best man for the job...whatever), but these days it's just not true. If the best man for the job is white and a company needs to meet it's affirmative action quota, the best man is not getting the job.

You know what I always find funny? The people who have the most right to complain...American Indians...rarely do. We killed off 90% or more of them and then forced the rest into Oklahoma. If you've never been to Oklahoma, you'll never know what a horrible punishment that is. Sure...we fucked up with black people. Slavery was a terrible thing. The thing that everyone fails to mention is that we were one of the last to enlist the use of slaves and one of the first to outlaw it. Does that make it ok? Of course not. But that was 150 years ago and not a single person alive today has any direct association with it. I think these days a lot of people...particularly whites...feel like they're paying the price for something that they had nothing to do with. I mean...my family didn't come to America until after slavery was abolished, so why should I be paying for it? There's also the issue of why illegal hispanic immigrants are also allowed to take advantage of this...but that's a different story altogether. So, simply put, white people have a right to be pissed. And so does everyone else.

[Gone]

Originally Posted by VR4_Craver

This is the same problem I had with My high school. Everyone (media and officials) say that the minorities (blacks and mexicans) are "fighting" to make a living here and are dropping out of school. Truth be told, whites are the minorities. And they werent dropping out they were just not going. Regardless of what classes they had they fucked off in them and eventually failed it twice and gave up. The biggest problem with Northern Indiana is that with whites being the minority every time we have a problem and say that "some black or some mexican" did something to us we get labeled as a racist and harrassed more. Another thing that happens here is that the majority of the people here live on welfare. Black families have around 4 kids per family here and the mother dont work so they get on welfare. The mexicans, get 3-6 families living in one house, all on welfare, and all working, and drive around in new SUVs and other semi- expensive cars (ie. New Nisans or toyotas). Of course, doing this makes it so schools hand out more reduced/free lunches at school. Thereby, raising the book fees for everyone except those unable to pay (blacks and mexicans) All the time complaining how the "white man" doesnt help them and that they are discrimanated against. The truth is that these people live in the mindset that they cant make it and then they just dont try to make it.

I agree with you. They don't think they can make it so they don't bother trying instead they try to live the only way they have learned to live. Another problem I believe is that the black kids show no respect towards anyone at my school. They look to get into fights. They don't know what it's liek to have nice things down here so they don't know how to treat other's nice things. I believe my brother had the same problem with the rednecks at his school. Hell my school only has one camera pointed towards the parking lot and no one is ever watching it. I highly doubt they even bother to record it. One of my friend's cars got completely sideswiped during school and he came out to it and it was basically half a car. He had to get it all repaired without his insurance. They never found out who did it.

I don't know why they don't respect us... we give them a lot of stuff. They wouldn't even get second rate computers if we weren't there. And we're going to be the kids that invent small things for them to use and stuff and they don't really care. I hold respect very highly as a source for most conflicts. When I lose my respect for someone, I don't talk or think about them. That's why I only talk to a few of the black kids. Because they are really freakin' nice. Usually the basketball players too. heh.

[Robert]

Steve, lets talk about the native americans. In Canada we gave them a plot of land and removed their desire to work by giving them a regular paycheck on the government. The reason they dont complain is because they're wasting away on the reserves we gave them. I have been to Tulsa and OKC, I wouldnt go back it was so dull.

On to blacks. Though slavery is over and it would appear we have equal rights we dont. If you look at how the media displays black culture you'll see its actually oppreseive. You should rend the movie Classified X a very interesting look at black's in movies; ever wonder why there is always the token black character? This explains why.

Further more not only does our media encourage blacks to think they can be gangstars and make alot of money but there is also a huge cultural difference. I watched an interesting documentrary from the early 90's done by the South African TV Network. This looked into how white people live in Europe. Though I never looked at it from a black persons point of view before it was very interesting to see the differences.

There are huge differences, though they do contribute to our society. I believe in a time to come we will see how government has kept oppressing the blacks by helping to bring illegal drugs to America and brain washed them into this 'gangstar' life style. Rap sucks, it preches hate, lust and money. None of these things get you anywhere desirable if you focus on them.

Can a black man become the CEO of a major company? Still in today's world its more likely a female to make the job. America/Canada is still run heavily by whites. Look at congress or my house of parliment. It's all white people. Nothing has really changed in 150 years, now blacks can earn their own income and vote. Society still treats them as a second class citizen and sadly alot of them fall into acting that way.

I couldn't blame them. If at every turn you were told you are a gangstar, you're dangerous and its easier to get a crappy job and steal then you would to. It's amazing what happens if from a young age you're exposed to negativem messages. It's truly an example of psyhcological conditioning.Dont assume for a minute you understand what its like to live in a black persons shoes, its far tougher then we could imagine.

[Gone]

Parents shouldn't bring their kids up treating them like that and should avoid their viewing of those "gangster" things. Kids that are brought up away from that sort of media end up being smart kids that think of themselves as individuals instead of another cow in the pack.

[VR4_Craver]

Robert, while your ideas are good you are applying them to a whole. Like saying
"Dont assume for a minute you understand what its like to live in a black persons shoes, its far tougher then we could imagine."
You really think that Micheal Jordan or Shaq has it hard? The ones that have it hard, have it hard because they are to lazy to change the situation they have gotten into. A single mother of 3 could either work double shifts at a job and actually TRY to get somewhere, or admit defeat and live on welfare. The sad truth is that this is what most "minorities" have done. Given up on the idea of actually working hard for shit you want. Sure there are people who have it hard and actually try to fix it. That is where the welfare comes in handy. But all of the goverments programs that are actually great when you need them but most are abused by people think they are to good to actually work. Dont get me wrong not everyone here abuses stuff like Welfare or WIC or medicaid. But, one day while shopping at Wal-Mart after my 10 hour shift, welding, in 95 degree weather I see a guy use a food stamp card then we follow him out and he hops into a fucking BMW X3 something kicks you in the face and tells you that it aint right. Or when my fiancee got denied Medicaid because I made 10$ an hour and in no way could we pay for our son to be born. Then in comes a "minorty" with 4 kids and no questions asked gets medicaid cause his dumb ass wife is pregnant again.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Robert

Steve, lets talk about the native americans. In Canada we gave them a plot of land and removed their desire to work by giving them a regular paycheck on the government. The reason they dont complain is because they're wasting away on the reserves we gave them. I have been to Tulsa and OKC, I wouldnt go back it was so dull.

On to blacks. Though slavery is over and it would appear we have equal rights we dont. If you look at how the media displays black culture you'll see its actually oppreseive. You should rend the movie Classified X a very interesting look at black's in movies; ever wonder why there is always the token black character? This explains why.

Further more not only does our media encourage blacks to think they can be gangstars and make alot of money but there is also a huge cultural difference. I watched an interesting documentrary from the early 90's done by the South African TV Network. This looked into how white people live in Europe. Though I never looked at it from a black persons point of view before it was very interesting to see the differences.

There are huge differences, though they do contribute to our society. I believe in a time to come we will see how government has kept oppressing the blacks by helping to bring illegal drugs to America and brain washed them into this 'gangstar' life style. Rap sucks, it preches hate, lust and money. None of these things get you anywhere desirable if you focus on them.

Can a black man become the CEO of a major company? Still in today's world its more likely a female to make the job. America/Canada is still run heavily by whites. Look at congress or my house of parliment. It's all white people. Nothing has really changed in 150 years, now blacks can earn their own income and vote. Society still treats them as a second class citizen and sadly alot of them fall into acting that way.

I couldn't blame them. If at every turn you were told you are a gangstar, you're dangerous and its easier to get a crappy job and steal then you would to. It's amazing what happens if from a young age you're exposed to negativem messages. It's truly an example of psyhcological conditioning.Dont assume for a minute you understand what its like to live in a black persons shoes, its far tougher then we could imagine.

Well...here in America it would seem that things are a bit different as far as natives go. Yes, they have land, but it's always in the shittiest part of the shittiest states. Since there's not much room to farm in any real way, most live off of government provided food. Problem is that they're not at all used to the heavily proccessed ingredients in those foods so now there's an explosion of diabetes on reservations. To the effect of roughly 80%. It's been 450 years and we're still fucking them.

While I won't take any particular issue with your post, I'll just say that it's an extremely dangerous and borderline offensive stance to take. Saying that blacks don't have a choice because of society and the media is not supportive to blacks...it's actually kind of insulting. That's the same stance that Jesse Jackson takes and he's done more to set black people back than any other public figure (if you want to know what I really think of him, see: http://www.hstuners.com/forums/showt...ht=open+letter ).

Just because the media portrays blacks as this or that I think to say that all of them are pressured to follow that image is quite a stretch. I mean...pretty much all people have a concept of a right and wrong way to live their lives. No media outlet is going to change that. Plus, such an argument patently ignores all of the people that have shoved aside the idea that blacks are gangsters and rappers and made good lives for themselves. I'm also not really sure you can look to elected office as a sign of racism. Principally because they're elected. Black people have the voting numbers to make a real difference at the polls and, if they were so inclined, could appoint black leaders. That is, of course, unless you live in the south. If you're black and you live in the south you're pretty much just screwed.

[Robert]

Let me touch on both topics here raised at once.

Originally Posted by VR4_Craver

Robert, while your ideas are good you are applying them to a whole. Like saying
"Dont assume for a minute you understand what its like to live in a black persons shoes, its far tougher then we could imagine."
You really think that Micheal Jordan or Shaq has it hard? The ones that have it hard, have it hard because they are to lazy to change the situation they have gotten into. A single mother of 3 could either work double shifts at a job and actually TRY to get somewhere, or admit defeat and live on welfare. The sad truth is that this is what most "minorities" have done. Given up on the idea of actually working hard for shit you want. Sure there are people who have it hard and actually try to fix it. That is where the welfare comes in handy. But all of the goverments programs that are actually great when you need them but most are abused by people think they are to good to actually work. Dont get me wrong not everyone here abuses stuff like Welfare or WIC or medicaid. But, one day while shopping at Wal-Mart after my 10 hour shift, welding, in 95 degree weather I see a guy use a food stamp card then we follow him out and he hops into a fucking BMW X3 something kicks you in the face and tells you that it aint right. Or when my fiancee got denied Medicaid because I made 10$ an hour and in no way could we pay for our son to be born. Then in comes a "minorty" with 4 kids and no questions asked gets medicaid cause his dumb ass wife is pregnant again.

Just like I am being blamed of sweeping statements, you two are making huge generalities on the issue which are not fact. The reality is a small percentage of people abuse the system and ruin it for others. It is these people you see mostly. Secondly the few blacks that have money do not represent the majority. The majority do not live the lives you speak of. When you live a life where you're bumbarded by news media telling you to act gangstar and live like a thug tell me you'd be different. If you do you're a fool. We are all products of our envoirnment and are influenced by what we see/taught while young.

There are however a huge number of people, in Cali estimated 1 million illegal workers working for cash and living lives. These people never qualify for the services you saw covered.

Will there always be people who take advantage of the system? Yes, of course. However they will be of all race and color, it is in peoples nature to be like this.

However the tone given above is boarderline on racial, they aren't dumb because they had a 4th child. There is no where in the law that dictates the level of income required to have a child. If the coin was flipped on you, one could say at your income you shoulndt be having a child. Minority or not. I think you're racist.

Steve, good points. Watch the doc. I suggested. In this areas I am probably more educated on the influences of media and racial descrimination then you are. Trust me when I tell you the comments I have made are not without fact. I however will leave it up to your interest and smarts to discover these on your own.

Start with these...
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/cool/giants/
More in racisim
http://weeklywire.com/ww/09-14-98/nash_film-video.html
http://www.medialit.org/reading_room/article384.html
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml
http://www.yale.edu/ypq/articles/oct99/oct99b.html

There is a tone to learn and there is more out there. Do your research, learn and then develope and opinion greater then your limited personal experience. That IMO is the only way to prevent yourself from becoming ignorant of fact.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally Posted by Robert

Let me touch on both topics here raised at once.




Just like I am being blamed of sweeping statements, you two are making huge generalities on the issue which are not fact. The reality is a small percentage of people abuse the system and ruin it for others. It is these people you see mostly. Secondly the few blacks that have money do not represent the majority. The majority do not live the lives you speak of. When you live a life where you're bumbarded by news media telling you to act gangstar and live like a thug tell me you'd be different. If you do you're a fool. We are all products of our envoirnment and are influenced by what we see/taught while young.

There are however a huge number of people, in Cali estimated 1 million illegal workers working for cash and living lives. These people never qualify for the services you saw covered.

Will there always be people who take advantage of the system? Yes, of course. However they will be of all race and color, it is in peoples nature to be like this.

However the tone given above is boarderline on racial, they aren't dumb because they had a 4th child. There is no where in the law that dictates the level of income required to have a child. If the coin was flipped on you, one could say at your income you shoulndt be having a child. Minority or not. I think you're racist.

Steve, good points. Watch the doc. I suggested. In this areas I am probably more educated on the influences of media and racial descrimination then you are. Trust me when I tell you the comments I have made are not without fact. I however will leave it up to your interest and smarts to discover these on your own.

Start with these...
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/cool/giants/
More in racisim
http://weeklywire.com/ww/09-14-98/nash_film-video.html
http://www.medialit.org/reading_room/article384.html
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml
http://www.yale.edu/ypq/articles/oct99/oct99b.html

There is a tone to learn and there is more out there. Do your research, learn and then develope and opinion greater then your limited personal experience. That IMO is the only way to prevent yourself from becoming ignorant of fact.

My "tone" was far from being racist. Yes I did point out facts. Unless what I witness myself is no longer considered fact. I guess I should be considered racist if I get pissed off about someone living off the money I bust my ass each day to have taken out in taxes, so they can have more kids and live a better life then I do. The argument here was that blacks and mexicans are being labeled as gangsters by the media, therefore live that kind of life style. Yet, 4 out of the 6 sources you mention have something to do with the media. Its like watching the weather on your 6 o'clock news and seeing rain the next 3 days then going onto the website and seeing sunshine and high of 90. Completely contradictory. Also, I am the fool for letting others tell me how I am gonna turn out? No. The fool is the one who listens to people who are paid to create controversy like that to get ratings. There is no coin flip needed robert I dont make nearly enough to give my son the kind of life I want him to live. So using your "coin" logic I should just give up and live off of welfare my whole life and never strive to achieve anything.

As far as the research goes:

http://www.in.gov/fssa/family/welfare/welfare.html
Look at that one for Indiana.
http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k2/GovAid/GovAid.htm
this one to show that while on goverment assitance Substance abuse rose.
http://www.house.gov/pence/rsc/gov_waste.shtml
and on that one you can download .pdf's showing Medicaid and Food Stamp Waste/Abuse.

[GT40FIED]

I'm just not sure you can blame media for much of anything. I mean sure...it's certainly out there, but personal choice has nothing to do with images portrayed in the media. I mean...I constantly see ads for soda and candy and whatnot, but I don't go out and buy them because I see other people enjoying them. Likewise, when I see some asshole white collar white guy on trial for embezelment it doesn't make me want to go out and do the same. That's what rappers essentially do...they portray a life of crime and excess (generally). The only way that such media can influence you is if you let it.

I think the broader problem is that while some blacks may buy into the "thug" lifestyle, many others endorse it by keeping their mouth shut. I mean...if you're constantly told that the only way you can ever get ahead in life is as a musician or an athlete and there's no one around to tell you that you're smart and worth more than that, then you might just believe it. That's not to say you can take personal responsibility out of the equation...everyone chooses their own path and there's no reason as to why. I mean you could blame it on single parent households...births to single black mothers is roughly 70% of all black births. Then again there will always be people to show you that you can succeed in that situation. Sure, it's easier to take the wrong route in life...but again, that's a personal choice. If you just want to give up and blame everyone else for how shitty your life is, I suppose you can. You can also stand up and take responsibility for your life and the direction it takes.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by VR4_Craver

My "tone" was far from being racist. Yes I did point out facts. Unless what I witness myself is no longer considered fact. I guess I should be considered racist if I get pissed off about someone living off the money I bust my ass each day to have taken out in taxes, so they can have more kids and live a better life then I do. The argument here was that blacks and mexicans are being labeled as gangsters by the media, therefore live that kind of life style. Yet, 4 out of the 6 sources you mention have something to do with the media. Its like watching the weather on your 6 o'clock news and seeing rain the next 3 days then going onto the website and seeing sunshine and high of 90. Completely contradictory. Also, I am the fool for letting others tell me how I am gonna turn out? No. The fool is the one who listens to people who are paid to create controversy like that to get ratings. There is no coin flip needed robert I dont make nearly enough to give my son the kind of life I want him to live. So using your "coin" logic I should just give up and live off of welfare my whole life and never strive to achieve anything.

As far as the research goes:

http://www.in.gov/fssa/family/welfare/welfare.html
Look at that one for Indiana.
http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k2/GovAid/GovAid.htm
this one to show that while on goverment assitance Substance abuse rose.
http://www.house.gov/pence/rsc/gov_waste.shtml
and on that one you can download .pdf's showing Medicaid and Food Stamp Waste/Abuse.

I will look into those interesting articles.

Considering the amount of anger you hold towards minorities that abuse the system in particular this couple that is on to their 4th child I think there is a huge issue. YOu cannot judge them one way and then judge your situation differently. They obviously cannot afford the 4th child, similarly you cannot afford your first child. Neither of you can say you deserve it more then the other. We're talking about an unborn child here that has no voice for itself.

No where in my comment did I mention giving up and going on welfare. I personally don't agree with welfare systems as they are currently structured in either country. However I do reconize the need for a safety net for the poorest people to be protected. There are options out there for you beyond medicare. Further more the child just didnt come from nowhere. My Father said to me when I was 14 "If you're ready to have sex, be ready to deal with the responsibilities of having a child. Not until you're comfortable with responsibilty should you risk it." Interesting persepective I thought. This is all hind sight now for your situation but maybe you should judge everyone as you judge yourself; on the same level.

I wish you all the best with this wonderful child you now have. All your child needs is alot of love and good parenting. Material things may improve his lifestyle but are not required for him, focus on the basics. Be wise and hopefully you will not instill in him the anger you have towards miniroties. Teach your child to see beyond color. Hopefully when he grows up he can take advantage of the wonderful country you live in and all that it has to offer.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

I'm just not sure you can blame media for much of anything. I mean sure...it's certainly out there, but personal choice has nothing to do with images portrayed in the media. I mean...I constantly see ads for soda and candy and whatnot, but I don't go out and buy them because I see other people enjoying them. Likewise, when I see some asshole white collar white guy on trial for embezelment it doesn't make me want to go out and do the same. That's what rappers essentially do...they portray a life of crime and excess (generally). The only way that such media can influence you is if you let it.

I think the broader problem is that while some blacks may buy into the "thug" lifestyle, many others endorse it by keeping their mouth shut. I mean...if you're constantly told that the only way you can ever get ahead in life is as a musician or an athlete and there's no one around to tell you that you're smart and worth more than that, then you might just believe it. That's not to say you can take personal responsibility out of the equation...everyone chooses their own path and there's no reason as to why. I mean you could blame it on single parent households...births to single black mothers is roughly 70% of all black births. Then again there will always be people to show you that you can succeed in that situation. Sure, it's easier to take the wrong route in life...but again, that's a personal choice. If you just want to give up and blame everyone else for how shitty your life is, I suppose you can. You can also stand up and take responsibility for your life and the direction it takes.

Yes the situation is more dynamic then JUST THE MEDIA however it is the largest single source of influence today for young people. It outweights parenting and school in time spent with it and the interest level. It is a mutlifasited approach through tv, internet and music.

One must realize the impact the media has on todays childern, it is like a plauge. It has quietly crept into every household, first by being out friend but now no longer represents individuals values. The media has taken a different direction then 50 years ago. Do the research.

[VR4_Craver]

I dont hold any kind of grudge or bad feelings towards minorities. The ones that abuse a system that is there for the people who need it most are the ones that should be hit in the face with a 5 iron. Clearly all you see in my example is that I called a minority stupid for getting pregnant again. Im not pissed that she is having another child. Thats not the case at all. I am pissed because she is having another child then going and getting goverment assitance for her children then getting into a brand new car and dressing in the flashiest clothes and having all these great things.

[GT40FIED]

Originally Posted by Robert

Yes the situation is more dynamic then JUST THE MEDIA however it is the largest single source of influence today for young people. It outweights parenting and school in time spent with it and the interest level. It is a mutlifasited approach through tv, internet and music.

One must realize the impact the media has on todays childern, it is like a plauge. It has quietly crept into every household, first by being out friend but now no longer represents individuals values. The media has taken a different direction then 50 years ago. Do the research.

The problem I see with a media based argument for societal problems is pretty simple. It's rather hard to take something everyone sees (like the media) and apply it to a small cross section of society. I mean...every kid, not just underpriviledged blacks, sees rap videos, the way blacks are portrayed on TV (especially on the news), and the message that is generated about minorities as a whole. But most don't choose to follow in that image. That's like saying that every girl who sees a Britney Spears video (the ones before she got all fat, anyway) will go straight to the mall and buy skanky clothes. Sure, some of them will because they're impressionable and lack a sense of personal identity but by and large it's not true. The people who are effected by media are probably going to end up heading in the wrong direction anyway because they'll always need someone to tell them what to do and, in most cases, anyone who wants to tell you what to do and how to think isn't doing it in your best interest. That's why I think the black community, particularly younger articulate blacks, need to step up and make their voices heard. Let's face facts...some people are already too far gone to be swayed now by a different lifestyle. But if you can get to younger kids and have intelligent people watch out for them I think you've got a chance.

[KwikR6]

Originally Posted by Robert

Steve, lets talk about the native americans.

Rob. Indians. In saskatchewan. It's indians.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GT40FIED

The problem I see with a media based argument for societal problems is pretty simple. It's rather hard to take something everyone sees (like the media) and apply it to a small cross section of society. I mean...every kid, not just underpriviledged blacks, sees rap videos, the way blacks are portrayed on TV (especially on the news), and the message that is generated about minorities as a whole. But most don't choose to follow in that image. That's like saying that every girl who sees a Britney Spears video (the ones before she got all fat, anyway) will go straight to the mall and buy skanky clothes. Sure, some of them will because they're impressionable and lack a sense of personal identity but by and large it's not true. The people who are effected by media are probably going to end up heading in the wrong direction anyway because they'll always need someone to tell them what to do and, in most cases, anyone who wants to tell you what to do and how to think isn't doing it in your best interest. That's why I think the black community, particularly younger articulate blacks, need to step up and make their voices heard. Let's face facts...some people are already too far gone to be swayed now by a different lifestyle. But if you can get to younger kids and have intelligent people watch out for them I think you've got a chance.

I agree its hard to study it. However I believe we are all effected by the media, the question is to what end? You cannot help but be effected, I think some more then others.

If you look at the number of teens have sex a young ages, increased teen pregnancies, increased violence amoungst youth and so on. It leads to a societal issue that is huge. This didnt have over night and I beleive this is largely to do by the media our youth are consuming.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by VR4_Craver

I dont hold any kind of grudge or bad feelings towards minorities. The ones that abuse a system that is there for the people who need it most are the ones that should be hit in the face with a 5 iron. Clearly all you see in my example is that I called a minority stupid for getting pregnant again. Im not pissed that she is having another child. Thats not the case at all. I am pissed because she is having another child then going and getting goverment assitance for her children then getting into a brand new car and dressing in the flashiest clothes and having all these great things.

Fair enough, maybe dumb was the wrong word to use. I can only read over here.

No hard feelings.