The brake thread - Civic/DelSol 92-00

[pdiggitydogg]

"I want bigger brakes," says...everyone. "What fits?" Well, Im going to tell you, the best I can. Of course, if you have more information...sharing is nice.

(Im going to assume everyone knows how brakes work, in general. If you dont, please check www.howstuffworks.com)

General:
Caliper piston size is what matters when talking about single piston brakes. The bigger your piston, the more surface area there is pressing onto the pad. Bigger pistons require more fluid to move them...to do that, a larger master cylinder is needed to push. By not changing the MC, when upgrading piston size, youre making the pedal travel a lot further to do its job.

Rotor size is also important. More surface area = more friction = more stopping power. The largest honda rotors are basically 11" diameter. Under that, is 10", and finally, 9".
(No, these are not exact measurements...just rounded figures for simplicity's sake.)
While we're talking about rotors, lets be honest about them...
Slotted and Cross-drilled rotors arent that great. Yes, they dissipate heat very well, and look flashy. However, today's pads are very good at what they do...they do not generate as much "junk" as older designs. And, in reality, if youre driving a street car, you dont need special rotors. Blanks (non-drilled/slotted) work just fine. Dont even get me started on slotted/drilled rotors in the rear.....thats just silly. Even the Nismo Skylines have blanks in the rear...what makes you think a Civic needs fancy slotted/drilled back there?

Pads? Yep, important. For the most part, OEM pads are fine; honda makes good stuff. I, however, like aggressive metallic pads because Im a brake freak and like to stop NOW. Rotor longevity be damned.
The 'grippier' a pad is, the sooner you will stop. Aggressive pads, however, are a double-edged sword. The stronger they stop, the more they wear themselves and the rotors...they also make a lot of noise and dust. Choose one based on what you think you need.

--
From this point forward:
Civic 92-95 = EG
Civic 96-00 = EK (Si = em1)
Del Sol 93-97 = EH (though eh is also eg...)
Integra 94-01 = DC (ITR will be...ITR...)

Size matters:
EG Caliper Piston Size:
Civic EX = Civic Si ABS (Ok, this Im not too sure about...Clarification?)
Civic DX/LX/VX/CX/Si (Si non-abs) < Civic EX
Civic Ex < Civic ABS
EG Rotor Size:
Civic DX/LX/VX/CX/Si (Si non-abs) - 9"
Civic EX/Si ABS - 10"

EH Caliper Piston Size:
Del Sol Si/S < Del Sel Vtec
Del Sol Vtec = Civic EX/Si
EH Rotor Size:
Del Sol Si/S - 9"
Del Sel Vtec - 10"

EK Caliper Piston Size:
Civic EX = Civic Si (aka em1)
Civic DX/LX/CX/HX < Civic EX/Si
Civic Ex/Si < Civic ABS
EK Rotor Size:
Civic EX/Si - 10"
Civic DX/LX/CX/HX - 9"
Civic ABS - 10"

DC Caliper Piston Size:
Integra GS = RS = GSR (Got it? GSR is NOT special!)
Integra < ITR
(While we're at it, CTR = ITR)
DC Rotor Size:
Integra GS/RS/GSR - 10"
ITR - 11"

Other Honda Caliper Piston Size
Prelude Vtec = ITR = Accord Wagon > Whats above
NSX/Legend = Biggest OEM Honda Brakes (These are 2-piston calipers)

Master Cylinders and Brake Boosters
Civic ex/si - 7/8"
Civic others - 13/16"
Civic ABS - 7/8"
Integra - 15/16"
ITR - 1"
Me? I went with the biggest...the ITR. The larger your MC the better your pedal will feel - the less distance it will travel, and the more efficiently the brakes will utilize the fluid. Bigger is ALWAYS better (unless you want crazy stiff pedal, equalling no feel)
MC's and BB's are counterparts...you cannot mix-and-match - Buy them as a set, if possible. The reason theyre not compatible is diaphram size and flange positioning. Even if you find a set, that are mixed, and have matching sets, they will not necessarily work together.

Cross-overs:
Integras are all ABS...they share the exact same size parts as their Civic ABS counterparts. Therefore, Civic ABS = Integra. (If you decide you want larger brakes on your abs civic, the only option you have is to go ITR (/similar) or NSX brakes.)

Knuckles
Not all Civic knuckles are the same...its the sad truth. What this means, is that not all parts are straight bolt-on.
EK Civic Ex/em1/ABS, EG Civic EX/Si(ABS)/ABS, EH Vtec, and Integras (all) share the same size knuckle. Meaning, all their parts are directly compatible with each other.
(Integra/Civic ABS brakes will bolt directly onto a Civic EX/SI or EH Vtec.)
All the rest of them (use your brains, Im not listing them all) have smaller knuckles (INCLUDES non-abs eg si!). (awww)
This means that when installing larger brakes, a knuckle from the other group is needed. That part, the knuckle, is directly compatible, however, and can be sourced from a Civic EX/em1/ABS or Integra)

Special Information on 11" rotors and NSX/ITR brakes
Though the NSX/ITR brakes do fit directly onto the Integra/Civic EX knuckle (others need to swap knuckles, as with integra calipers on say a civic dx)...an 11" rotor is needed, as well as some other stuff... Unfortunately, there is no 4x100 11" honda rotor (confirmed). To remedy this situation, buy rotors that are 5lug (for prelude vtec 92-96 - they are EXPENSIVE) and have them redrilled to fit our hubs (which is 4x100 remember). Another option, of course, is to fully convert to 5lug...
By choosing to redrill prelude vtec rotors, youre bypassing a hub-centering ring that is needed on itr or nsx rotors - Unfortunately, the rotor will need to be shimmed out, away from the hub (most agree on 1/8" wheel spacers), because of clearance issues with it and the caliper...this probably means extended lugs. If you dont need them with your wheels be glad - most people will need another set of 1/8" spacers for the caliper (NSX, ITR) to clear the wheel itself.
(Needless to say, your wheels are now 1/4" farther out than they were stock...hope youre not tucking into the fender well...)

Rear Disc
All rear trailing arms are IDENTICAL...even the drum brake ones. It is possible, therefore, to swap only the hubs when doing the conversion...many do this (I just find it easier to swap the entire arm w/ hub attached than to change them).
I want to make this really clear...Rear disc brakes from Integras, Del Sols, and Civics are all the same, and are directly interchangeable w/ each other. The only difference is the length of the parking cables...for those, use the ones that would best suit your vehicle (common sense here...use your brain).

Proportioning Valves
When changing to rear disc, from drums, it is highly recommended that you also change the prop valve (in most cases). Doing so, will allow the correct amount of brake fluid to feed the calipers.
For sake of simplicity, find one that comes from a car, of your generation, that has rear disc factory.
(IE -
EG people should buy one for an ex sedan abs or si hatch
EH people a Del Sol VTEC.
EK people (only those that drive coupes and sedans) an em1. EK hatches, share the same prop valve, ironically...dont ask why, I dont know.


I guess thats it...or all I can think of for right now. Oh, I want to reiterate the part about upgrading the master cylinder when upgrading the brakes...very important. My how-to on that can be found here: http://www.hstuners.com/forums/showt...threadid=20664

These are your brakes, guys. Its what stops you... Dont fuck around with them if you dont have a clue and remember...keep it as simple as possible.