wow.. talk about a world coming together

[ChrisCantSkate]

http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/

and before this one gets twisted into another bush post, it is showing unity between the citizens of all nations to rally for no way.

Dude I know you really dont think there should be a war but one is needed in this situation. I dont like getting involved with political discussion much anymore but I can't hold my tongue anymore.

The problem in Iraq isn't going to go away with anything the UN is doing, they are taking the piss on controling a dangerous nation. As an American you are at the greatest risk to an attack (compaired to where I sit, in canada) and well I think you would want to make sure that your country isn't attacked again like 9/11.
On the flip side Iraq will never be more motivated to attack you then after the first wave of American bombs. That said fear is not a good reason to stop you from doing the right thing. The Iraqie (sp?) people do not live in a free nation and the free world should do everything in its power to provide a "free nation" for them.

For other countries not to stand beside the US isn't a surprise, half the countries in Europe are a bunch of pusies and well need to pull their heads out of their asses. Screw what the rest of the world has to say on this issue and go in there and bomb the country back to the stone age. Get a new leader in that country who believes in a free Iraq adn one that supports the idea of working towards freedom for everyone in the middle east.

In my mind the rest of the world can shut their mouths on the topic, when was the last time they stepped in and did something useful? Its aways been britian and the US doing the dirty work and if you aint helping you a part of the problem.

[Racing Rice]

I saw a lot of that on the news the other day.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by mt.biker
The problem in Iraq isn't going to go away with anything the UN is doing, they are taking the piss on controling a dangerous nation. As an American you are at the greatest risk to an attack (compaired to where I sit, in canada) and well I think you would want to make sure that your country isn't attacked again like 9/11.

the thing is, that was a terrorist attack, not from a country. sadaam dosnt have the ability to do a military attack on us. even near the magnituted of 9-11. iraq and al queda(sp?) are not related in any way, alot of people dont realize this

i dunno, ive read too much maybe, but i dont think a war is justified right now

Originally posted by mt.biker
Screw what the rest of the world has to say on this issue and go in there and bomb the country back to the stone age.

Isnt Iraq already in the Stone Age??

Iraq violated their UN resolution...UN wont enforce it..US will...whats the deal eh?

we agree to allow the UN to police the world...that is what we are SUPOSED to agree on, but now that bush the cry baby is not getting his way he agrees to defy the UN.. im not saying there should be war or not be war, BUT what i do know is this.. he ALREADY withdrew from the anti ballistic missle treaty and now he is talkign about U/N DIFIANCE, these are steps BACKWARDS not fowards.. people work so hard to establish truces and treatys now this asshole is screwing it all up.. and the fact IS al quida is NOT directly affiliated with iraq. did they have anything to do with training??? MAYBE.. but the same can be said about Mc Viegh we (the US goverment/military) TRAINED him to be a soldier.. and on april 19, 1995 168 people, including 8 Federal Marshals, were killed in the bombing of the federal building in Oaklahoma City.. im NOT comparing it in damage to 9-11.... im simply saying that we MIGHT be barking up the wrong tree by pointing so many fingers at iraq...

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by oc civic
we agree to allow the UN to police the world...that is what we are SUPOSED to agree on, but now that bush the cry baby is not getting his way he agrees to defy the UN.. im not saying there should be war or not be war, BUT what i do know is this.. he ALREADY withdrew from the anti ballistic missle treaty and now he is talkign about U/N DIFIANCE, these are steps BACKWARDS not fowards.. people work so hard to establish truces and treatys now this asshole is screwing it all up.. and the fact IS al quida is NOT directly affiliated with iraq. did they have anything to do with training??? MAYBE.. but the same can be said about Mc Viegh we (the US goverment/military) TRAINED him to be a soldier.. and on april 19, 1995 168 people, including 8 Federal Marshals, were killed in the bombing of the federal building in Oaklahoma City.. im NOT comparing it in damage to 9-11.... im simply saying that we MIGHT be barking up the wrong tree by pointing so many fingers at iraq...

so so true.

The UN is not policing the world, they keep changing their position as to avoid confrontation. Pushing deadlines back to give Iraq more time isn't the answer, if you give an inch they take a mile. Everyone knows that saying and well they keep on pushing the limits. If the UN isn't willing to tell countries involved with the UN to apply military force on Iraq then one or two countries have to take it upon themselves to do the right thing.

The UN has almost become a joke, no one wants to goto war so they do everything in their power to stop that, even at the cost of the world's view of the UN. How many bad rulers do you think will be afriad of the free world if the UN can't even control Iraq. Heck the UN is a joke, things take forever to get down and for the most part its just the US and Britian doing the work, and the US is one of the largest funders to the UN and yet when the US says 'we need to flex our strength so saddam knows we mean business" they all gawk and say "No, no, more time and he will do the right thing".

I personally dont believe that a man who keeps his people in the dark, murders and rapes his citizens will ever do the right thing. He will do only enough to stop his country from being bombed.

Now whos side are you really on if you dont support this war, maybe you've all forgotten how good you have it living in the wealthiest country in the world. Its easy to say your leader is a morron and shouldn't be starting a war in the middle east. Well I call you to take a look around, possibly pull your heads of your a$$ as well because the rest of the world doesn't live like you do and there are 100's of people in Iraq that every day are beat and possibly killed because they believe in a free Iraq. What your country is going over there to do is to support freedom and support the dream for a better future. Its too easy to say Bush is doing this for oil and greeed, thats not a good enough reason for him not to goto war. Thats only what the meida has feed you and honestly I'm sick of Americans not supporting their prez. You finally have a leader with the balls to do the right thing and your afriad of what its going to cost YOU. "Its not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country" get off your a$$ and make a difference in this world. At least your prez has an idea of where he wants your country to go, you might be down on the markets lately but thats not his fault, the price of oil might be up but thats because you are the most wasteful society on the face of the earth.

Suck up whateve problems you think you have and shut your mouth! No where else in this world do people live as freely as they do over here. The people in the armed forces are there to better this world and where ever there needs to be corrections made, they step forward and put their lives on the line to "free this world" God bless all those men and women who daily put their lives on teh line for what they believe in, its better then I can say for all the protestors that forget how they became free, have you not forgotten your civil war?

I think the major problem with Americans these days is you have it too good. Forgetting that the rest of the world doesn't live like you do, maybe if you travelled over seas you would realize the life you live is everyones dream, stop your bitching and either shut up or ship out. If you dont like what your gov't is doing, I'll send you $0.25 to call someone who gives a shit. I can't believe as a Canadian I am more supportive of what Bush is doing then the lot of americans I've talked to. Yes many Americans will die in this war, but that is a small price to pay for freedom, have you all forgotten how good freedom tastes? I hope you haven't and everyone in this world should be allowed to wake up in the morning and be living in a free society, dont ever try and stop that. If you do you are no better then Saddam himself.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Rob

Well said.

Originally posted by mt.biker
The UN is not policing the world, they keep changing their position as to avoid confrontation. Pushing deadlines back to give Iraq more time isn't the answer, if you give an inch they take a mile. Everyone knows that saying and well they keep on pushing the limits. If the UN isn't willing to tell countries involved with the UN to apply military force on Iraq then one or two countries have to take it upon themselves to do the right thing.

The UN has almost become a joke, no one wants to goto war so they do everything in their power to stop that, even at the cost of the world's view of the UN. How many bad rulers do you think will be afriad of the free world if the UN can't even control Iraq. Heck the UN is a joke, things take forever to get down and for the most part its just the US and Britian doing the work, and the US is one of the largest funders to the UN and yet when the US says 'we need to flex our strength so saddam knows we mean business" they all gawk and say "No, no, more time and he will do the right thing".

I personally dont believe that a man who keeps his people in the dark, murders and rapes his citizens will ever do the right thing. He will do only enough to stop his country from being bombed.

Now whos side are you really on if you dont support this war, maybe you've all forgotten how good you have it living in the wealthiest country in the world. Its easy to say your leader is a morron and shouldn't be starting a war in the middle east. Well I call you to take a look around, possibly pull your heads of your a$$ as well because the rest of the world doesn't live like you do and there are 100's of people in Iraq that every day are beat and possibly killed because they believe in a free Iraq. What your country is going over there to do is to support freedom and support the dream for a better future. Its too easy to say Bush is doing this for oil and greeed, thats not a good enough reason for him not to goto war. Thats only what the meida has feed you and honestly I'm sick of Americans not supporting their prez. You finally have a leader with the balls to do the right thing and your afriad of what its going to cost YOU. "Its not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country" get off your a$$ and make a difference in this world. At least your prez has an idea of where he wants your country to go, you might be down on the markets lately but thats not his fault, the price of oil might be up but thats because you are the most wasteful society on the face of the earth.

Suck up whateve problems you think you have and shut your mouth! No where else in this world do people live as freely as they do over here. The people in the armed forces are there to better this world and where ever there needs to be corrections made, they step forward and put their lives on the line to "free this world" God bless all those men and women who daily put their lives on teh line for what they believe in, its better then I can say for all the protestors that forget how they became free, have you not forgotten your civil war?

I think the major problem with Americans these days is you have it too good. Forgetting that the rest of the world doesn't live like you do, maybe if you travelled over seas you would realize the life you live is everyones dream, stop your bitching and either shut up or ship out. If you dont like what your gov't is doing, I'll send you $0.25 to call someone who gives a shit. I can't believe as a Canadian I am more supportive of what Bush is doing then the lot of americans I've talked to. Yes many Americans will die in this war, but that is a small price to pay for freedom, have you all forgotten how good freedom tastes? I hope you haven't and everyone in this world should be allowed to wake up in the morning and be living in a free society, dont ever try and stop that. If you do you are no better then Saddam himself.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!

WOW where to start ... lets start by saying. How we became free has NOTHING to do with some standing obligation to the world. WE became free because we lived under an oppressed government... WE became free because we got off of our asses and did something about it ... it is NOT our moral obligation to free the world. i STRONGLY support war when it is just. But I also believe in a right way to do things ... balls ... he has no balls. is HE going to lead the troops to battle? NO he will be in a lead lined bunker 7 fathoms beneath the surface, protecting his ass.. and we are not protecting some freedom, from some government who is threatening to concur us ... he is sticking his face in something that has NOTHING to do with him.. they have yet to PROVE he has anything he isn't supposed to have that would threaten OUR safety.. i for one question his motives...

HOW ABOUT YOU TELL ME IN A CLEAR CONCISE WAY WHY WE SHOULD WAGE WAR ON IRAQ, and PLEASE SUPPORT IT WITH FACT.. that is IF you can

oh yeah and by the way.. FUCK you for questioning MY loyalty..

Originally posted by 94_AcCoRd_EX
Rob

Well said.

what was well said? what exactly did i miss

we should take this to an aim chat room..

oc civic you must have missed the speach to the UN by Mr.Powel who doesn't typically believe in going to war, but yet he says that they need to goto war now. If you did miss that I'm not going to repeat everything he said but I will touch on the theme of his message.

Saddam does have weapons that he isn't supposed to have, he is just hiding them better then anyone could have possibly hoped. He is going to great lengths and costs to keep these weapson hidden from the UN.

One must wonder why he is hiding these weapons and why there are companies in Iraq producing missiles that go beyond the range impossed by the UN. The production of these missiles signles to me that the UN has not done its job in enforcing these regulations that were set a few years ago. This is a good reason the US needs to step in and remove Saddam from power.

You are responsible for Iraq, and your going to shit your pants when I tell you why so sit your a$$ down. Your gov't put him into power in the hopes he would lead Iraq fairly, well he didn't and the money has gone to his head. So your gov't/country is personally responsible for all the pain and suffering of the people under his rain.

If that isn't enough for you, your country is the military police of teh world and was founded on the notion of freedom. When you stop defending freedom you have forgotten where you have come from and that is truly a crime.

As to Bush not leading your forces into battle, that is a pointless argument adn that says nothing about his choice. So shut up on that one!

As to your reply please try to be more thoughtful and intelegent in your replies, I have no wish to "decode" what you are trying to say so lets keep things well written please, I know you have it in you and your sluppy style tells me you are angered by my notion of right and wrong. Do grow up!

Originally posted by mt.biker
oc civic you must have missed the speach to the UN by Mr.Powel who doesn't typically believe in going to war, but yet he says that they need to goto war now. If you did miss that I'm not going to repeat everything he said but I will touch on the theme of his message

Saddam does have weapons that he isn't supposed to have, he is just hiding them better then anyone could have possibly hoped. He is going to great lengths and costs to keep these weapson hidden from the UN..<-- so basicly he is saying we know he has bad things because we just know but we can't prove it because well hes too sneaky but we want you to allow us to just wadge a war based on our "hunch" sorry thats not good enough for me....

One must wonder why he is hiding these weapons and why there are companies in Iraq producing missiles that go beyond the range impossed by the UN. The production of these missiles signles to me that the UN has not done its job in enforcing these regulations that were set a few years ago. This is a good reason the US needs to step in and remove Saddam from power.<-- how much further do these missles travel? how precise is missle travel? how close are these missles to threatening american safety?? come on man those missles are a joke...

You are responsible for Iraq, and your going to shit your pants when I tell you why so sit your a$$ down. Your gov't put him into power in the hopes he would lead Iraq fairly, well he didn't and the money has gone to his head. So your gov't/country is personally responsible for all the pain and suffering of the people under his rain.

If that isn't enough for you, your country is the military police of teh world and was founded on the notion of freedom. When you stop defending freedom you have forgotten where you have come from and that is truly a crime.<-- maybe that is a mistake we made a LONG time ago.. maybe canada should police the world for a while....

As to Bush not leading your forces into battle, that is a pointless argument adn that says nothing about his choice. So shut up on that one!<-- right..

As to your reply please try to be more thoughtful and intelegent in your replies, I have no wish to "decode" what you are trying to say so lets keep things well written please, I know you have it in you and your sluppy style tells me you are angered by my notion of right and wrong. Do grow up!

[AzCivic]

What the hell was the point of that?

Originally posted by AzCivic
What the hell was the point of that?

if you re read what he wrote.. i responded to two of his reasons for wadging war..

Originally posted by oc civic
if you re read what he wrote.. i responded to two of his reasons for wadging war..

Where did you touch on the Powel issue?

[AzCivic]

uh no you just quoted what he wrote.

Originally posted by mt.biker
Where did you touch on the Powel issue?

Saddam does have weapons that he isn't supposed to have, he is just hiding them better then anyone could have possibly hoped. He is going to great lengths and costs to keep these weapson hidden from the UN..<-- so basicly he is saying we know he has bad things because we just know but we can't prove it because well hes too sneaky but we want you to allow us to just wadge a war based on our "hunch" sorry thats not good enough for me....

One must wonder why he is hiding these weapons and why there are companies in Iraq producing missiles that go beyond the range impossed by the UN. The production of these missiles signles to me that the UN has not done its job in enforcing these regulations that were set a few years ago. This is a good reason the US needs to step in and remove Saddam from power.<-- how much further do these missles travel? how precise is missle travel? how close are these missles to threatening american safety?? come on man those missles are a joke...


i put little arrows pointing to what he said then wrote a responce...

[AzCivic]

Good job though Mt. Biker. You are way better with words than i could hope to be.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by oc civic
Saddam does have weapons that he isn't supposed to have, he is just hiding them better then anyone could have possibly hoped. He is going to great lengths and costs to keep these weapson hidden from the UN..<-- so basicly he is saying we know he has bad things because we just know but we can't prove it because well hes too sneaky but we want you to allow us to just wadge a war based on our "hunch" sorry thats not good enough for me....

One must wonder why he is hiding these weapons and why there are companies in Iraq producing missiles that go beyond the range impossed by the UN. The production of these missiles signles to me that the UN has not done its job in enforcing these regulations that were set a few years ago. This is a good reason the US needs to step in and remove Saddam from power.<-- how much further do these missles travel? how precise is missle travel? how close are these missles to threatening american safety?? come on man those missles are a joke...


i put little arrows pointing to what he said then wrote a responce...

oh.

So those sattellite photos that he showed of things being moved before inspectors got there, you dont think thats proof he's doing something he shouldnt??

Does it matter how far they travel and how precise they are? Fact is he's not supposed to have them.

[AzCivic]

Mt Biker i just have one disagreement, about how Saddam got into power. I didnt think the US government got him into power i thought he was just part of some military takeover awhile back and he eventually made himself leader.

Originally posted by AzCivic
oh.

So those sattellite photos that he showed of things being moved before inspectors got there, you dont think thats proof he's doing something he shouldnt??

Does it matter how far they travel and how precise they are? Fact is he's not supposed to have them.

ever look at a satelite photo of hmm lets say a hospital??? As the UN put it who knows what normal is... those trucks do not PROVE he is being sneaky.. DO THEY?? i didn't notice any banners on the truck that said "nuclear bomb transport" the point is IF he IS violating things then we WILL find otu about it.. and have REAL proof.. NOT a hunch.. what if the police saw a KNOWN drug dealer driving around talking to LOTS of people OBVIOUSLY selling drugs.. we ALL know it.. BUT when stopped there is NO REAL evidence you think it is fair to convict him?? NO OF COURSE NOT.. and thats the problem i have with this.. when they find GOOD hard REAL info i will be the FIRST to say lets go..

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
the thing is, that was a terrorist attack, not from a country. sadaam dosnt have the ability to do a military attack on us. even near the magnituted of 9-11. iraq and al queda(sp?) are not related in any way, alot of people dont realize this

i dunno, ive read too much maybe, but i dont think a war is justified right now

Have you seen the new Osama bin laden video that was jsut realesed? in it he says things to the effect of, he will not sit silent while his muslim brothers be atttacked by us....in the tape he sounds a bunch like he's gunna try to join them or somthin. I think they've talked (osama and sadaam)

Originally posted by mt.biker
Dude I know you really dont think there should be a war but one is needed in this situation. I dont like getting involved with political discussion much anymore but I can't hold my tongue anymore.

The problem in Iraq isn't going to go away with anything the UN is doing, they are taking the piss on controling a dangerous nation. As an American you are at the greatest risk to an attack (compaired to where I sit, in canada) and well I think you would want to make sure that your country isn't attacked again like 9/11.
On the flip side Iraq will never be more motivated to attack you then after the first wave of American bombs. That said fear is not a good reason to stop you from doing the right thing. The Iraqie (sp?) people do not live in a free nation and the free world should do everything in its power to provide a "free nation" for them.

For other countries not to stand beside the US isn't a surprise, half the countries in Europe are a bunch of pusies and well need to pull their heads out of their asses. Screw what the rest of the world has to say on this issue and go in there and bomb the country back to the stone age. Get a new leader in that country who believes in a free Iraq adn one that supports the idea of working towards freedom for everyone in the middle east.

In my mind the rest of the world can shut their mouths on the topic, when was the last time they stepped in and did something useful? Its aways been britian and the US doing the dirty work and if you aint helping you a part of the problem.

I agree.

Why the hell would the israelis be against the war!?

Sadaam is their biggest threat. Sadaam hates them with a passion....its seems like they'd want us to help them take him out.

[AzCivic]

HUH?

Originally posted by AzCivic
HUH?

What part?

[AzCivic]

You said : "Why the hell would the israelis be against the war!?

Sadaam is their biggest threat. Sadaam hates them with a passion....its seems like they'd want us to help them take him out."

Maybe i just missed what your referring to, or who you were talking too. I didnt see anything talking about Irailis. I probably just missed it.

I was refering to a picture in the gallery posted. it was one of the israeli's marching.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
I was refering to a picture in the gallery posted. it was one of the israeli's marching.

Oh.

[Wren57]

I actually agree w/ Mt. Biker on this one
I dont have the patience to be as long-winded as Biker, but shall try to be concise:

1) UN rules said Sadaam can not have these missles
2) Sadaam has missles that exceed the UN requirement, and some have been found with liquid, yes LIQUID inside them and the cheif UN weapons inspector demanded he remove them

if this isnt enough, how about some more hard info:

1) Sadaam has history of creating volatility in the region
2) Sadaam attempted genocide on the turks in the north of his own country
3) the US didnt put him in power, but silently funded him in the war against Iran
4) He has a long-standing grudge against the US, but is laying-low trying to buy time to create an arsenal capable of mass destruction- no he doesnt have this now, but picture him as say a velociraptor... you wanna kill it while its still an egg or wait for it to hatch and *hope* that it will be nice, even though all other velociraptors aren't...

ok thats too much typing for me for one post... Ill respond to this later...

oc civic so far it sounds like you just dont want to do anything about the problem in Iraq and hope it all smooths over. It seems I have how saddam got into power a bit off, but the US still helped him get there.

IF you just dont want to do anything but sit around and hope to God that this man dies before he causes trouble...I'm just gonna bite my tongue on the kind of person I would think of you if that was you.

Now I have a fever and I'm off to bed!

[Wren57]

Oh... as for Israel...
The US has agreed to help setup a respected Palestinian state after the war
Iraq had artillery that could shell Jerusalem, but it was removed several years ago... no telling how many more artillery he has hidden
Children in Israel live in constant fear of an Iraq bombardment, and practice drills in school which see them wearing gas masks and retreating to bunkers

and did nobody notice that he was elected UNANIMOUSLY by election recently? Please, dont try to convince me that was legit

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! Sadaam is jerking all of you around by your chain, trying to buy time to produce more weapons and prepare for a war. EVERY time we are about to *do something about it some magical document appears that says they have disarmed some weapon, and hence the world wants to give more time to try to uncover these mysterious documents...
he has lied, he is lying, and he will lie again
he has killed, he is killing, and he will kill again

seriously- you say we should give him more time? what has he done to prove to us that he will cooperate in good faith? nothing except play the middle and pretend to be the good guy and creating a smokescreen for himself so the lesser-intelligent of humans beleive him and oppose those who see through the smoke, thus dividing people in every country...

oh- blood for oil? please, do you have any concept of how LITTLE oil Iraq actually sends to the US? did you know that a lot of it comes from places such as Argentina? so that statement is completely unfounded...

Sadaam is a terrorist to his own people and, if given more time to increase his bio/chem/nuclear weapons he will be a terrorist to the world and will threaten free countries everywhere. Is this the threat you want your children to live under?

[AzCivic]

For all you people who think Saddam isnt really all that bad:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ir...ade/sect4.html

[ChrisCantSkate]

bush did coke.. thus by definition he is an evil person cause drugs are bad.

i am not for war without proof. its the same thing with police warrents, they cannot arrest you and hold you because they think you did something, they need proof. we need PROOF to go to war. that is what i want. i think bush is acting almost too much like hitler, our news is biased to make him look good, and sadaam look bad. i know sadaam is a bad person, im not trying to stand up for him, but im not supporting bush. he is acting like a dictator, he is trying to rule the world

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by ChrisCantSkate
bush did coke.. thus by definition he is an evil person cause drugs are bad.

i am not for war without proof. its the same thing with police warrents, they cannot arrest you and hold you because they think you did something, they need proof. we need PROOF to go to war. that is what i want. i think bush is acting almost too much like hitler, our news is biased to make him look good, and sadaam look bad. i know sadaam is a bad person, im not trying to stand up for him, but im not supporting bush. he is acting like a dictator, he is trying to rule the world

about your first comment: what the hell are you talking about?

shit does saddam need to come to YOUR house and torture YOU and YOUR family and drop a bomb in YOUR back yard before you get the point.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by AzCivic
about your first comment: what the hell are you talking about?

bush usta do coke

[AzCivic]

When? Like 20 years ago?

Not that it has a damn thing to do with what were talking about or anything.

[AzCivic]

Oh wait it was like 30 years ago.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by AzCivic
When? Like 20 years ago?

Not that it has a damn thing to do with what were talking about or anything.

im just saying you cant exploite peoples personal lives and say it effects there professional one