The Passion

[DsBlu01CivEX]

I'm not trying to start a religious/spirtial debate because I know how most people feel on the subject on this board.....


but I was just wondering how many of you has seen the movie and what you thought about it. I saw it tonight and I think it was the most graphic movie I've ever seen(as been stated before...I tend to only watch comedies). I'm not a highly religious/spirtial person...I know what I believe in and what I don't, but I thought the movie was very moving and touching. I've never read the bible and could really see many of the subtitles, but I still knew what was going on. Although now that I've seen it, I still can't figure out how some people were getting an anti-semetic vibe from the movie.


I dunno...I just thought it was very well done, whether you believe or not.

Regardless of personal feelings on the movie, most people agree that it was very skillfully produced.

- Dzur

I've yet to see it but I definately will do that while it's in theaters.

[ChrisCantSkate]

i think the anti-semetic vibe is because of what the jews did according to the bible and since you cant really leave that out.... they get pissed about something thats not ment to offend anyone. it would be like having a wwii movie about the jews struggle and leaving hitler out cause cause it offends germans.

[Shaved &/or Laid]

yeah you cant please everyone. thats why they need to bring back Family Guy. Like right now.

[GT40FIED]

I wanted to go see it...I'm not religious at all but I'm always interested in theological debates and conversations (being raised the son of a former priest will do that to you). There's a problem though. I've made this attempt since I was younger to watch as many horror movies as I can. Now whenever I see violence that's really over the top I just start laughing. Even during serious movies. I swear it's involuntary, but I don't wanna be in a packed theater and laughing while Jesus gets his ass kicked by the Romans. As for the anti-semitist angle...I don't know why people are bitching. Mel Gibson (while being a terrible actor) is a traditionalist christian so he's pretty much taking the bible word for word. In the bible the jews were ultimately responsible for Jesus' death. If they wanna get pissed at anyone, get pissed at the bible. Don't get pissed at the guy who read it.

[DsBlu01CivEX]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
I wanted to go see it...I'm not religious at all but I'm always interested in theological debates and conversations (being raised the son of a former priest will do that to you). There's a problem though. I've made this attempt since I was younger to watch as many horror movies as I can. Now whenever I see violence that's really over the top I just start laughing. Even during serious movies. I swear it's involuntary, but I don't wanna be in a packed theater and laughing while Jesus gets his ass kicked by the Romans. As for the anti-semitist angle...I don't know why people are bitching. Mel Gibson (while being a terrible actor) is a traditionalist christian so he's pretty much taking the bible word for word. In the bible the jews were ultimately responsible for Jesus' death. If they wanna get pissed at anyone, get pissed at the bible. Don't get pissed at the guy who read it.

actually GT...I thought you'd quite enjoy the movie and have probably have respect for it.

I don't make it a normal occurance to watch horror movies, but out of the ones I've seen, this was by far the worst. But in the same breath...it was an incredible piece of art. I can understand your concern though (about laughing in a packed theater)...try going to see a matinee when not as many people would be in there.

[GT40FIED]

Enjoy...perhaps. Respect...probably not. First of all, after seeing interviews w/ Mel Gibson and getting HIS take on why he made it the way he did I think he made a bit of a mistake. But his motives are his own and I'm not going to question them. The only reason I'd go see it is to watch it from a historical standpoint (if one wishes to refer to the bible as "historical", that is) and see how true to the bible it actually is. I have no interest in it from a spiritual or emotional point of view.

Side note: This is one of those "only in Kansas" things. Apparently a woman in Wichita went to go see the movie and got so worked up about it she suffered a heart attack during the crucifixion scene. Man...god must not have liked her much to strike her down in the middle of a movie about Jesus.

Originally posted by Shaved &/or Laid
yeah you cant please everyone. thats why they need to bring back Family Guy. Like right now.

new season is in production!~!!!!!!!!

I havent seen the movie and i dont intend dont realy want to watch 2 hours of torture not my bag. but I think the reason some peps get the anti-semetic vibe is beacuse of the interview with gibsons dad that has been going around i was listening to the Howard Stern Show and in the interview gibsons dad said that the holocaust never happened and that all the jews left and whent do the bronx bacause thats where the money was! and then he said the german death camps wouldn't work he said the engenerring was flwaed LOL if there is one thing germans can do its engeeneer stuff to work extermly well some people crack me up

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by 4doorspeedman
I havent seen the movie and i dont intend dont realy want to watch 2 hours of torture not my bag. but I think the reason some peps get the anti-semetic vibe is beacuse of the interview with gibsons dad that has been going around i was listening to the Howard Stern Show and in the interview gibsons dad said that the holocaust never happened and that all the jews left and whent do the bronx bacause thats where the money was! and then he said the german death camps wouldn't work he said the engenerring was flwaed LOL if there is one thing germans can do its engeeneer stuff to work extermly well some people crack me up

So Mel Gibson is not only a shitty actor, but the product of psychotically dillusional parents...great. I dunno...I've been to Auschwitz and Dachau and they looked like they'd work pretty well. What an ass.

[mylittlecivic]

most people dont understand the bible and have mixed views or ideas about it, would be interesting to see what mel gibson might have done right, but im not going to see it in the theater or anything maybe if its on tv and im bored some day.

[GT40FIED]

One big downer for me is knowing exactly how the movie ends. What them hell's the point? I've read the bible cover to cover (it took every ounce of determination to do so, but I did...now I'm working on the Apocrypha) and it's not like there's some mystery unless Gibson found a magic loophole that gives Jesus an AK-47 so he can mow down the Romans. You people who went to see Titanic know what I'm talking about (and should also be ashamed of yourselves for seeing such a piece of shit...ship hits iceberg, 98
% of passengers die. Where were in the day they taught that in history class?).

The Holy Bible...now a major motion picture!

[V8killimports]

Ever notice that religion seems to be the cause of almost every major catastrophe throughout history?

Originally posted by V8killimports
Ever notice that religion seems to be the cause of almost every major catastrophe throughout history?

WW1, WW2, The Boer War, Titanic, Hiroshima (part of ww2 I guess)..and so on and so forth. I know that these are not all of the events but you get my idea. Some are due to religion and some aren't. The reason they are due to religion is due to the amount of religions out there and the conflict that exists between them. If you place you and a person who's qualities you hate and despise and want nothing of in a raft and ship you off to sea, or lock you in the same room, let's see what happens?

[DsBlu01CivEX]

You can't say that religion is the "cause" of most of the major catastrophes in the world. That's not fair to say. Geography and governments I would argue are the major causes of wars and what not. Religion just gets factored into that and works as an excellent scapegoat. Like Isreal today....the only reason why they're fighting is because of governments dividing up land and being greedy. Nations were founded on greed...to see who could get the most land (ie Roman Empire!!!) and what not. The only country that I can think of that hasn't had tons of turmoil and actually lives somewhat in "peace" and has multiple ethnicities/languages/religions is Switzerland. When boundary lines are drawn and people are grouped together under one government, but don't have similare beliefs/languages/etc....you're bound to have turmoil and what not.

So, it's definitely not religion that has been the major factor in everything.....it's just the scapegoat, because that's easy and pushes everybody's buttons.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by DsBlu01CivEX
You can't say that religion is the "cause" of most of the major catastrophes in the world. That's not fair to say. Geography and governments I would argue are the major causes of wars and what not. Religion just gets factored into that and works as an excellent scapegoat. Like Isreal today....the only reason why they're fighting is because of governments dividing up land and being greedy. Nations were founded on greed...to see who could get the most land (ie Roman Empire!!!) and what not. The only country that I can think of that hasn't had tons of turmoil and actually lives somewhat in "peace" and has multiple ethnicities/languages/religions is Switzerland. When boundary lines are drawn and people are grouped together under one government, but don't have similare beliefs/languages/etc....you're bound to have turmoil and what not.

So, it's definitely not religion that has been the major factor in everything.....it's just the scapegoat, because that's easy and pushes everybody's buttons.

Actually...for the most part he's right. Even those catastrophes and atrocities that are commited for "political" reasons, religion and politics are rarely ever far removed from each other. Take Israel for example...as countries go it's an infant. It was established in 1947 after WWII as a sort of apology to the jews and give them the homeland they'd always though of as theirs. Problem is that the Palestinians lived there too and didn't take kindly to having no say in the taking of what they consider to be THEIR homeland. So yes, a coalition of governments created a potential problem...but religion caused the violence and fuels it to this day. Same with most of the Middle East. After WWI and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire they ("they" being white western European folks) had to do something with all of that land, so they just drew lines on a map. They didn't think that these people hate these people and now they live in the same country. But drawing lines on a map is a formality...it's still religion that causes them to fight. The making of countries would be meaningless if everyone got along. As for scapegoats...politics makes just as good a scapegoat as religion so I fail to see any difference. Call it what you want, but you'll never be able to please anyone, but without religion as a catalyst you'd have MUCH fewer issues than we presently see today. Look at the IRA...a "war" of sorts based almost ENTIRELY on catholic vs. protestant. It also takes a special kind of zealousnoess to cause these problems that generally aren't found in America. For example, most blacks are by and large christian or muslim...but for some reason a good amount of them distrust jews (well...white people altogether, but for some reason jews in particular). Does this bring us to war? No. I won't claim to be able to explain it all, but don't fool yourself into thinking government and religion are too far removed from each other. Look at Bush's "faith based initiatives". Constitution? What constitution?

Religon has causted more death and destruction than any other single factor accpet for possibly money but in the case of the cathloic chruch money and faith all become one thing. for most of history the catholic chruch was the richest enitiy on the planet, and until the refromation controlltd all governments and the people subjegated by them. and recently a normaly peacful religon like islam has been corupted for the gain of tyrants, and now they have twisted jihad into somthing that is was never inteented to bee. then you get the jappenesse governments coruption of the "warriors way" (i cant spell so im not even going to try the japenesse spelling lol) to make their entire population into a killing machine basted on the tradioton of the samirai wich was completlry twisted a samria would never suicide himself in battel he may comot sucide if has has samted himself but senseless sucide was not part of it. from my personal research and reading it sems to me that before the refromation religon used government to its personal gains but then the government has the postion of power and has used the faith of its people as a means of accomplishing a polotical agenda. take the new fcc sensorship rule that is curently being pushted through congress as good christan values bans all forms of objectionalbe sppech on the air waves this can include anything they want it to and will be twisted just like the patriot act dont even get me started on that i have to qote GT40 on this one "consition what constition" ok my litle rant for the week is done now

[DsBlu01CivEX]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Same with most of the Middle East. After WWI and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire they ("they" being white western European folks) had to do something with all of that land, so they just drew lines on a map. They didn't think that these people hate these people and now they live in the same country.

I won't claim to be able to explain it all, but don't fool yourself into thinking government and religion are too far removed from each other. Look at Bush's "faith based initiatives". Constitution? What constitution?

Your first point was the point that I was trying to make....had those lines not been drawn and those governments not been put into place that say Religion A is going to be our national religion, not religion B and you will have to follow religion A and speak Language A not B....the wars and whatever would not be happening. You can't lump different groups of people into one country and think that they're going to get along all honkydory. I still believe that religion is used as a scapegoat a lot for the wars and stuff...and granted so is politics. There is no one thing to blame for it, but I don't think it can solely be based on religion.

And I don't think that I'm fooled to believe that government and religion are far removed from each other...I do know better. I've had enough Geography and History courses to know better. (they were my major and minor in college).

Oh and GT...I think you would have an excellent time debating this same topic with my professors. I know that I did.

[V8killimports]

Don't forget the holy crusades. English went over 3000 miles away.. nowhere near their country.. to "convert" muslims to christianity. There is also the spanish inquisition.. the holocaust happened simply because Hitler did not like Jews. He blamed everything that was wrong with Germany on a single demographic.

And out country is full of different races, religions, languages, etc, and you don't see Texas invading Oklahoma.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by DsBlu01CivEX
Oh and GT...I think you would have an excellent time debating this same topic with my professors. I know that I did.

This is true...I AM a freakin genius. Lol. Depends which class it is. I don't think it's a good idea though. I got kicked out of my philophies of religion class for calling my teacher a "fucking liar". He spoke about christianity in absolutes and in all other religions a rhetorical or hypothetical. I asked him about it one day in class and he stated that he did no such thing and that he was offended that I'd even suggest that. So I called him a fucking liar and left. A week later about 1/4 of the clas sleft after me. Lol.

As for the governments causing problems, I understand where you're going, but you have to look at the big picture. Assume any given religion never existed. What would there be to fight over? You'll never get people to completely get along, but it becomes problematic when two groups of people hate each other on solely idealogical grounds. You can blame men with pencils and maps to some extent, but there wouldn't be a problem without religion goating them into wars that last thousands of years. If you think about it further, borders are just lines on a map. They're not real in a physical sense. When I cross the border into some other state, there's no dark line drawn on the earth or some big wall to pass through. These people could just as easily get up and leave if they didn't like it instead of dying for ideas. But they think of it as their homeland. And why? Because their ancient religious documents say so and they're often so wrapped up in religion that any rational options are expelled (you know...the really crazy ideas like coexisting with these other people) leaving only the irrational. You can blame governments and committees and maps for creating a problem...but it's a problem that wouldn't exist were it not for religion.