What do you guys think....?

Which would be easier to drop in/better(performance wise) for a 1996-98 civic EX?

B18C6/7 --or-- K20A

Also, the engine would be turbo'ed, i dunno if that effects your answers.

Also, take into account how the engine pulls on the chase (sp?) for handling...


Thanks for all the info guys.

OPAK

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Which would be easier to drop in/better(performance wise) for a 1996-98 civic EX?

B18C6/7 --or-- K20A

Also, the engine would be turbo'ed, i dunno if that effects your answers.

Also, take into account how the engine pulls on the chase (sp?) for handling...


Thanks for all the info guys.

OPAK

Any B series motor will fit much much better into your car than a K-series.

Go with the B18c5-its one damn good motor.

Originally posted by cashizslick
Any B series motor will fit much much better into your car than a K-series.

Go with the B18c5-its one damn good motor.

I wanted to go with the 200 hp teg type r motor...thats the b18c6/7...the b18c5 only has 195 hp...i know its only 5 hp, but i wanna get the best that i can...ya know

[Wren57]

um yeah... if you plan on turboing, the b18c5 is a waste... get the b18c instead... all the b18c5 has is better intake manifold and higher compression (I think), and if you turbo it both of these would need replacing anyways...

[KwikR6]

Originally posted by highlander
um yeah... if you plan on turboing, the b18c5 is a waste... get the b18c instead... all the b18c5 has is better intake manifold and higher compression (I think), and if you turbo it both of these would need replacing anyways...

yup

Originally posted by highlander
um yeah... if you plan on turboing, the b18c5 is a waste... get the b18c instead... all the b18c5 has is better intake manifold and higher compression (I think), and if you turbo it both of these would need replacing anyways...

Why would a teg type r engine be a waste? it has more HP...i'm confused :(


B18C- JDM 1.8L DOHC VTEC- 94+ Integra SiR-G (180ps)


B18C6/7- JDM 1.8L DOHC VTEC- 96+ Integra Type R- (200ps)

Also, what do you mean, both these would need replacing if you turbo'ed it? you refering to the intake manifold?

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
Why would a teg type r engine be a waste? it has more HP...i'm confused :(


B18C- JDM 1.8L DOHC VTEC- 94+ Integra SiR-G (180ps)


B18C6/7- JDM 1.8L DOHC VTEC- 96+ Integra Type R- (200ps)

Also, what do you mean, both these would need replacing if you turbo'ed it? you refering to the intake manifold?

High compression is bad for boost. Most ITR motors cant handle boost because of their high compression - but dont let this stop you from getting the best engine for ur car.

With the ITR motor, all you have to do is lower your compression. You have 2 choices A) Install a thicker head gasket, or B) install new pistons w/a lower compression ratio.

I hate it when people say the B18c5 cant handle boost - just lower compression so you dont blow it up.

Originally posted by cashizslick
...just lower compression so you dont blow it up.

Sounds pretty simple to me

and to have a great/fast car, don't exspect it to be easy to achieve, i exspect to do some heavy mods on my car...so i'll have a 200 hp teg type r engine boosted civ hehe


but cash: why do you say get the b18c5? isn't the b18c6/7 just a lil better?

[KwikR6]

So instead of spending the extra money on a C5 you can just get a C. Which is basically the same motor. the C5's are great for N/A though.

Originally posted by Black Del Sol
So instead of spending the extra money on a C5 you can just get a C. Which is basically the same motor. the C5's are great for N/A though.

wait--what?! i'm talking about getting a b18c6 or 7...not the c5..or the c, lol

[pdiggitydogg]

B18C6 is a Euro ITR motor with 11:1 C/R
B18C7 is also a Euro ITR motor but found in '99-01 Australian Integras

the c5 is probably going to be cheaper (thats the first Ive ever said that!) because its just easier to find. Plus not many people have even heard of the c6 and c7.

Go w/ the c5 and put in a thick headgasket if thats what you wanna do...but the c1 would be a whole lot cheaper to turbo...and the b1 even less

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
B18C6 is a Euro ITR motor with 11:1 C/R
B18C7 is also a Euro ITR motor but found in '99-01 Australian Integras

the c5 is probably going to be cheaper (thats the first Ive ever said that!) because its just easier to find. Plus not many people have even heard of the c6 and c7.

Go w/ the c5 and put in a thick headgasket if thats what you wanna do...but the c1 would be a whole lot cheaper to turbo...and the b1 even less

So american interga type r's have 195 hp?

[pdiggitydogg]

I know the JDM ones do...the usdm are probably a little less...I dont know for sure though, but it makes sense to me (we always get ripped anyway)

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
I know the JDM ones do...the usdm are probably a little less...I dont know for sure though, but it makes sense to me (we always get ripped anyway)

yea we do....

btw, i heard they're thinking of bring the skyline over to america

[pdiggitydogg]

^Now I'll only believe that when I see it...then I would pee my pants

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
^Now I'll only believe that when I see it...then I would pee my pants

Originally posted by OPAKRACING
but cash: why do you say get the b18c5? isn't the b18c6/7 just a lil better?

Yes, but itll pry be more expensive - and 5 hp isnt gonna matter when you are boosting/putting a Type R motor in your civic.

[Wren57]

Wow some of you guys really don't know anything about engines, and I thought I was dumb .

1. A b18c5 will work with boost IF you lower the compression ratio, but if you do that it is essentially the same engine as the b18c1, only it costs a couple thousand more. About the b18c6/7, good luck finding one around. Euro engines aren't as plentiful as JDM due to mileage laws in Japan.

2. The Skyline IS coming to America. In fact, its already here. Check my sig.

Originally posted by highlander
[b]Wow some of you guys really don't know anything about engines, and I thought I was dumb .

1. A b18c5 will work with boost IF you lower the compression ratio, but if you do that it is essentially the same engine as the b18c1, only it costs a couple thousand more. About the b18c6/7, good luck finding one around. Euro engines aren't as plentiful as JDM due to mileage laws in Japan.

You are forgetting that the ITR b18c5 comes with a hand done ported and polished head and intake manifold and stonger internals - Depending on how far you want to take your civic, you may want to get the c5 because you will save money in the long run (i.e. sending your head/intake manifold out to get p&p and having no car untill they are re-installed).

BTW highlander - howz the new whip>skyline

[Wren57]

As that is the case, if he is as serious as he sounds (although he probably doesnt have the 10k+ to back it up), he will need to get a new intake manifold anyways, and a port/polish job is cheap.

I don't get the question... whip>skyline

Originally posted by highlander
As that is the case, if he is as serious as he sounds (although he probably doesnt have the 10k+ to back it up), he will need to get a new intake manifold anyways, and a port/polish job is cheap.

I don't get the question... whip>skyline

The g35 is supposed to be the USDM version of the skyline - right?
how do you like it? does it outperform the nissan Z?
As for the p&p, i did not know how much it cost - kinda figured it was gonna run at least a couple hundred $.

[Wren57]

Sorry, I was just confused.

Yes, the g35 is the USDM version of the JDM Nissan Skyline.
I doubt it out-performs the Z, but damn it looks better, has badass interior, you can actually SEE out the back of the car, and it has a certain aura about it that the Z lacks. The G actually holds .92 lateral g whereas the Z is .88. I don't have it yet, it arrives in June but the test-drive was awesome.

The PP job can be done for about 400 at a good shop. Hardly worth the two or three thousand the b18c5 costs more, even though it does have better internals and manifold.

Originally posted by highlander
As that is the case, if he is as serious as he sounds (although he probably doesnt have the 10k+ to back it up), he will need to get a new intake manifold anyways, and a port/polish job is cheap.

I don't get the question... whip>skyline

I'm have a job....i'm gunna put that c5 in my car the right way...werk for my money.

so you'd rather pay for the port and polish instead of spending your money on another part for the car? I wanna get the best i can get. nuff said.

Thanks for the help guys.

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

right..

I dont believe the Type R block is build for boost, so why not just get a c1, resleeve and rebuild the engine from the top down?

You'd LEARN a lot more by building and pieceing together your own engine other than saying I'll buy a 5 G motor, lower the performance of it just so I can add a turbo and have bragging rights :P.. which is hardly a bragging right at all haha.

Save yourself some money, get a c1 and just build it up.

And when you say..

I'm have job... werk for my money..

does that mean you already have a job and you have a good 5-7k stored away? or will you work for it?

So I think taking an engine that was meant for NA, decreasing the performance, then turbo'ing it is just a waste of money and a decent engine :P

[Wren57]

Ok wow be wise with your hard earned money!

b18c5 is what, $5000 or so?
Around 1k for engine/tranny/ecu install?
Headgasket, assuming you install yourself what, another 100
if you get it installed thats at least 500, eh?
So you are looking at 5100 if you install everything yourself, 6600 if you dont.

b18c1 is like 3000 install 1000
pistons/rods 1500 install 750
intake manifold 500 if you cant install this yourself

So that is 5000 if you install yourself, 6750 if you get everything done for you.

The PP will cost 400 more on the b18c1.

So everything costs the same, just installation costs more with the b18c1, but that is because you are getting top-notch high-quality parts, not just replacing a headgasket. With these good parts you can run more boost and be more reliable, and not have a half-assed cars like so many Hondas are.

[nonovurbizniz]

WTF are all of you telling this kid?????

A. b18c5 and b18c1 ARE VERY different... nameley the superior oil pump bottom end girdle 1 stage intake instead of 2 in GSR (b18c1) better crank etc etc etc... the c5 is FAR SUPERIOR to the c1...

B. Boost is MORE than attainable on a c5 with or without lowering the compression... (it's called tuning)

C. Port and polish is NOT EVEN APPROACHING A REQUIRED MOD.

D. If ANY of you knew what you where talking about with saving money you'd've suggested a ls/vtec turbo or a straight ls turbo.. build it up and it could cost THOUSANDS less than a simple type R swap.

E. A g350 is a skyline like my civic is a SiR.

Originally Posted by highlander

just installation costs more with the b18c1

F. Why does c1 install cost more than c5????

For the origonal poster:

You obviously do not know enough to start modding your car this seriously without wasting your money and ending up with something other than what you hoped for.

be it a c1 or c5,6,7, etc... you can get what ever your looking for...

Popular honda montra says "DO NOT TURBO A C5" this is partly due to the high compression of the engine but also due to the fact that turbo's are inherently dangerous on a car not designed for it... stock turbo cars have TONS of things that NA blocks regardless of quality of build just don't have...
Forged pistons
Piston coolers (most vtec's have these)
NON ALUMINUM HEADS (turbo's run MUCH hotter than na cars the heads can COMPLETELY warp.)
MUCH THICKER cylinder walls
Oil coolers
PROPER FUEL INJECTOR SIZE AND FUEL MAPS.

the list goes on and on and on... basically put if your going to turbo a block.. go with a setup LOTS of people have done and haven't had any problems with otherwise you risk blowing EXPENSIVE parts REPEATEDLY trying to hunt down the problem.

Turboing a car is a HUGE venture. It can be done with junkyard parts on high mile engines but that's not usually the case... and even then YOU WILL BLOW UP YOUR MOTOR EVENTUALLY. GUARANTEED.

If you have money POURING out of your ears (like highlander's fam. jfwy) then go for the c5 or the 6 or 7... but don't expect to spend 10k and have something in the end... chances are you'll be like 20k in before you have anything APPROACHING reliable especially if your getting the work done for you.

If you want to be realistic and have a car that runs most of the time... get a b18b and work that or a b16a2... but now your back into big bucks for the block and parts...

The benifit to doing a ls or even a d16 turbo build is that the engines and parts are damn close to free (for stock stuff)... so that way if you blow your motor you can replace it for cheap.

If you really want the type R motor go for it... but it's gunna be a money pit...

Last thing... You are aware that beyond the swap/install cost for the block a decent turbo set up will cost WELL over 3k? and a GOOD one can cost upwards of 10k (just for turbo/fuel/engine management components).

[Racing Rice]

I agree with nonovurbizniz.. If your going to turbo any ITR motor you better have a lot of money laying around to either; A. do it right the first time, or B. Keep putting in a new motor until you have figured out how not to blow it up.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
WTF are all of you telling this kid?????
If ANY of you knew what you where talking about with saving money you'd've suggested a ls/vtec turbo or a straight ls turbo.. build it up and it could cost THOUSANDS less than a simple type R swap.

Ls/Vtec is a waste of $$ unless you have a team working on your car to fix it everytime its terrible R/S ratio puts a piston through the wall of your engin - i think OPAK wants to have a reliable car.

Before you go on thinking that Ls/vtec is so great ask yourself 2 things. 1) why did honda not make the engine in the first place?
2) why would honda intentionally decrease the displacement of the b18c1 compaired to the b18a/b motors???

why build a fast 12 second motor that throws more fits than a 3 year old kid? if that is what you want to do, just buy a mustang.

[Wren57]

Haha, cashizslick knows what hes talking about...
The reason the installation on the b18c1 would cost more would be for the pistons and rods installed...

nonov, youve gotten in the habit of making huge posts, many of which have very little content and lots of rambling...

as for turboing an LS/VTEC, good look with that... you think a c5 turbo is a moneypit, wait til you turbo the LS/VTEC

[nonovurbizniz]

I never said ls/vtec was "so great".... what I said was the setup and repair parts would be MUCH cheaper.

Also my main suggestion to him was NOT TO DO ANYTHING... Just get something simple and work on it over time...

He's NOT going to end up with a good car NO MATTER HOW MUCH money he throws at it unless he strikes a lucky streak like NO other.... He's young in-experienced and probobly TOTALLY incapable of handling what he wishes he has....

Building, driving, and racing cars is something which takes a LONG time to get even CLOSE to being prepared for... especially given a project of the magnitude he's talking about...

Ever heard the term walk before you run?

I mean for christ's sake he's got a pacesetter exhaust set up... they LOSE power over stock...

He should turbo the motor he's got... he could have a reliable d series turbo set up for like 2-3k.

The setup he's talking about could make like 500 + hp.... I mean come on...

OPAK are you really looking to have a 500 +hp car???? and if so... do you really want it to be a front drive civic???????????

For the money you'll spend to get this accomplished you could sell your car and build a much better platform. and on top of it all you won't have spent ALL THAT MONEY just to be ANOTHER KID from Cali with a type-R turbo civic... I mean that's the saddest part... at least where I'm from I would be close to the only one.

Ya highlander lots of rambling and no content... RIGHHHHT....

and WHY would piston/rod install cost more on a c1?

[Wren57]

hey, I was jfwy like you were with me

he would need to install pistons and rods on the c1 but not on the c5, therefore increasing overall installation costs...

I agree with you that he shouldnt do anything, and if he really wants power he has the wrong platform. If you really want power, sell the civic and buy a Supra MKIII, 240SX or something along those lines...

A 400+hp civic is just asking for problems...

[silver]

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz

B. Boost is MORE than attainable on a c5 with or without lowering the compression... (it's called tuning)

you beat me to this one. i wish people would learn how a f/i motor works and understand that compression is not the enemy, if you didn't have the compression you wouldn't be making power at all. more compression equals more power, same as n/a. the question is how are you going to keep the compression high without blowing it, that is tuning.

well, heres one suggestion:

For the money, a B16a2 is a great deal. 160 hp is nothing to laugh at, and ive driven my friends Civic w/that swap - its a quick car.

That engine will add a lot of power to the civic, and make it perform well, plus you will have plenty of room to upgrade the engine. - that is what i will do at the end of this summer.
Think about it.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by cashizslick
well, heres one suggestion:

For the money, a B16a2 is a great deal. 160 hp is nothing to laugh at, and ive driven my friends Civic w/that swap - its a quick car.

If he does that why not just go get a new Si engine?? Or just go get the K20A2 (RSX Type-S) Turbo that and have a good 250-300hp on your hands.... the bad thing is that you will need custom motor mounts from somewhere like hasport...Sure you wont have much room left in there for much more...But what more do you need????

[VR4_Craver]

In fact i think i have the issue with that swap done in it....

its in the December/January issue of Honda Tuning
Probably the main problem would be finding the donor.....you could probably find one if you could find B18C anything....Maybe you have alot of cars with those around you im talking about where i live.. But this swap would make your car a beast

[nonovurbizniz]

a k20 is WAYYYYYY more expensive than a b16a2 and the b16 have had more luck going turbo than almost ANY other honda block...

you could get 300+ out of one with a build for turbo and still have a street driveable car provided a quaife or comprable lsd.

The point is that IF this kid has access to this kind of money HE SHOULD NOT DUMP IT INTO A CAR... get a frigging apartment and pay the morgage for like 2 years and sell it for WAY mor than you paid or CD's or stocks whatever... by then you'll have evough experience to be making all these suggestions TO YOUR SELF.

Highlander:
you'd be MORE likely to replace the rods and pistons on a c5 then you would on a c1... c1's have lower compression and I believe they have the same rods.

Either way if your smart you replace WHATEVER pistons with forged ones and dome beefier than stock rods (a crank and full valve train wouldn't be so dumb either (especially stainless steel valves... don't wan't to burn up those stockers)).

Forget all this for the kind of free wheeling money spending OPAK is talking about he should just get a DART block and build that to the hilt. problem solved.

[drdingo21]

If he does that why not just go get a new Si engine?? Or just go get the K20A2 (RSX Type-S) Turbo that and have a good 250-300hp on your hands.... the bad thing is that you will need custom motor mounts from somewhere like hasport...Sure you wont have much room left in there for much more...But what more do you need????

Originally posted by VR4_Craver
In fact i think i have the issue with that swap done in it....

its in the December/January issue of Honda Tuning
Probably the main problem would be finding the donor.....you could probably find one if you could find B18C anything....Maybe you have alot of cars with those around you im talking about where i live.. But this swap would make your car a beast

I hate to do this mike, but im gonn shoot down your theroy. The k20 would cost an arm and a leg to buy. The mounts that you would need to get that engine to fit are like another grand. And its a big engine.

Now he could get a b16 for right about a grand. He could build his own turbo for about 1500, and still be under the cost of the k20 swap, and that setup i just listed would run laps around a stock k20.



I was in the same shoes you are now, i want power and sooner or later do FI. Right now price is an issue for me, and i am seriously considering a b16 with a chiped ecu. The motor can be had for about 1100. And turbos can be built kinda cheap.

If you want real power get an h22. That engine has power and torque everywhere. With a basic turbo application and some upgrades you could easily get 300+hp to the wheels. and the eninge is sorta cheap...

Originally posted by drdingo21
I was in the same shoes you are now, i want power and sooner or later do FI. Right now price is an issue for me, and i am seriously considering a b16 with a chiped ecu. The motor can be had for about 1100. And turbos can be built kinda cheap.

Since B16's can be found for so cheap, they are a great swap - they wont empty your wallet, and you will have plenty of money to do the swap properly - i.e. new tach, hi-perf. clutch, short shifter, new wires, possibly new intake (if needed).

I'd rather get the b16 swap and do it right than empty my wallet on a b18c and have no money left over to put good parts in it.

[VR4_Craver]

Originally posted by drdingo21

If you want real power get an h22. That engine has power and torque everywhere. With a basic turbo application and some upgrades you could easily get 300+hp to the wheels. and the eninge is sorta cheap...

yes yes...the H22 is good. But the thing he forgot to mentin was that with this setup you lose power steering and AC. Now i doubt that you would want that. The H22 is an awesome engine and in a light weigt civic it would be good. But for the K20 you would just have to wait for some idiot to wreck his RSX. Good luck

[drdingo21]

you only lose one or the other. And if he keeps the power sterring the h22 will propell him fast enough to get some wind going to make up for the missing A/C. Besides the ac robs power anyway.