Supercharger or Turbo?

What's better and why? Supercharger or Turbo for a '99 Honda civic Ex?
Other then just getting the turbo or supercharger, what else would I need?

I got a really nice hookup at a dealership near me and they are willing to hook me the hell up with a turbo or supercharger. The thing is I never really looked into them before because I never had the money to do anything with my motor. (I'm all show) ANYHOW, I know trubo and Supercharger 101.. but I'm getting mixed answers from the dealership, speed shops, and the net about what I need after I get a turbo/supercharger..
So, what's the best to get????????? HELP!!!!

[ChrisCantSkate]

check the high performance forums.. theres a thread in there going over the differences

[ChrisCantSkate]

heres the link

http://www.hondastyle.com/forums/sho...&threadid=7627

also check the turbo and supercarger specific sections, they have lots of info on them in there

Depends how much cash you wanna pour into your motor......Honestly I would just go with a turbo with about 6 lbs of boost ...That way you wont need to do any internal work. You can just strap it on and go ......But if your wanting serious hp go with a higher boost or a charger . The good thing about a charger is that you dont have to wait for it to spool up , With turbos you get what is known as turbo lag. My freind has a jackson charger on a b16 and that car runs very strong . Now I have heard bad things on chargers but then again I have heard positive things ....So the only thing I would stress to you is please do your research and ask people about there horror stories and what went wrong so that you can make your choice with the confidence that you know this is somthing that you want to do and not because you can get a hook up on it ..... As we say in our buisness cheap parts arnt good and Good parts arnt cheap...


Good luck
Ty
Lucky13

if i were you i'd go with a nice turbo...me i like turbos, but for some reason i decided to go with a procharger! either way, your a hell of a lot faster!

[slowEJ6]

go turbo....more bling bling than a supercharger = show points.

[ebpda9]

i lke turbo better, but i wouln't mind a supercharger either.

First you got to know the difference, turbos work off of exhuast gas hence the need for a turbo header. Superchargers work off of drive belts like your air compressor or powersteering pump do. So, if you are running a belt to work the supercharger it will take a small amount of power to drive the charger before it gives you any power. This problem is not that bad on a large displacement engine such as a V8 that most where designed for, Jackson superchargers has a nice unit for the small Honda engine that works well but if your looking to make more than a 80hp increase I would look to a turbo. Other things you may want to address when installing a power adder is fuel supply. Most kits will include a hi pressure fuel pump and or a fuel management unit (FMU) to address fuel delivery. Hope I may have cleared up some things don't hesitate to contact me for more info.

Alex C
Preicison Machined Engines
boostit@pmei.net

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by NastyontheNOS
Honda engine that works well but if your looking to make more than a 80hp increase I would look to a turbo.

80hp out of a S/C on a EX? Maybe with some built internals and supercharger upgrade.

You will only get about 140 to the wheels (about a 40% increase in power) when you simply bolt on a Supercharger (with no mods to it) on an EX. The little SOHC motors dont seem to be as responsive the S/Cers as the DOHC motors are.

You can upgrade the JRSC by upgrading pulleys, etc. To get more power. Turbos are a lot easier to get a lot more power out of. If your just looking for something thatll give you a little more power when you want it, especially lowend. The supercharger may not be to bad. But if your looking for some serious power. Look into the turbo.

I know several people that went with the JRSC and now wish they would have spent the money on a turbo because you can only get so far with a supercharger before you start wasting way to much money to make it faster.

I'd definitely go with the turbo!!! I'm not a fan of superchargers on civics..at least sohc civics. Supercharging a D16 isn't that wise (i don't think), because a supercharger is belt-driven and needs a bigger motor to get that force moving. Turbo's make more efficient power on a smaller displacement engine. A supercharger is going to tax a four cylinder engine a lot. Get the turbo...add some low compression pistons and u'll get more hp out of it. Just my .02.

-Amy

I have the Jackson on my car....I'm trying to figure out where "A supercharger is going to tax a four cylinder engine a lot" that comes from, because if you do you research....a jackson supercharger is not like other roots type chargers...it puts NO strain on the motor when its not being used....the belt comming from the alt. to turn the charger free spins not even turning the "screws" in the charger untill a positive pressure is realized (IE you punch the gas) and as far as internal work goes I have all stock b16a2 parts except clutch,flywheel,valve springe,ecu,intake, and exhaust....I'm running 6 psi fine....and if you really stop and think about it.....does a honda motor need more low end torque or more high end HP.....hmmmm. I do agree on the sohc 1.6 go turbo, other wise your are about to spend WAY to much money with a supercharger....but if you got the dohc...supercharger all the way....unless you are going for an all out drag car....but the truth is on the street...light to light races, you dont need anymore highend hp you need the low end torque from the supercharger to get you out of the whole and in front....how many street races do you get into that actually last past 3 gear?...anyways just thought I would try to clear some stuff up...and I'll be happy to do so again

Jrsch, you never get enough power or at least I don't. I agree Jackson makes a great supercharger and designed for stock Hondas, it doesn't create drag at idle like other systems like Vortec, Paxton, etc but when it creates boost it gives you power and lots of it but the more you boost the more drag it makes on the engine, but it's always gonna give you more power than its gonna take. If your not going to do the major fuel upgrades to make power on a turbo I would go with a charger....maybe. I do turbos its more my deal and I take the time, I wont eat to save the money and build a correct turbo set up and usually it pays off. As for building a engine I wouldnt do it for 6psi or 10psi for that matter, you could make the engine stay together if things are done correctly even 11:1 compression type R engine's can handle 10psi and if you step up to the plate and do the fuel computer lots of power can be made with upping the boost. I don't know how long it will last at hi boost but it will make big power. As for the street for sure a Jackson again if you don't spend the ca$h on the fuel by the time you make boost the Mustang is gone, SC is there ready for duty. I guess it all depends on your need.

Alex C

Racing Rice is correct about the 140 hp to the wheels on a otherwise stock civic ex with the jackson charger....but that is on a all stock motor besides the fuel pump (got to get that at least) but if you have an intake and a decent exhaust that number goes up very quickly (closer to 155ish hp) the supercharger is the cheap way to go on the ex....buy the supercharger and the fuel pump and your done....the turbo would make more hp on the ex but only because you can turn up the boost.....but then again you have to pay a little more for the turbo set up (unless someone cuts you a good deal on all the stuff needed for the turbo set up)....if I were you.....I would save the 2000+ dollers and get a b16a2 instead of a turbo or a supercharger...a stock b16a2 puts down the same hp numbers as a 6 psi turboed or 6 psi supercharged d16...and the good thing about that...you would still have the realiblity as your stock motor now....

I say get NAAAAWWWWWWZZZZZZZZ.

OK well I sat here and read all this and somethings make sense to me and alot of things don't and I am sure that you are still are a bit confused Platinum_Civic so let me give you your answer.

Though the supercharger was a nice idea from jackson racing it is not as great as it is made out to be. Yes it makes power, yes it gives nice punch in the low end of the powerband but, the charger is very limitted in the power that it can make. It's not because the size of the pulley becuase you can get 10psi out of a JRSC with a stepper pulley and I think it's the crank pulley off a CRV (someone correct me if i'm wrong there) what limits it's power making ability is heat. You see where the JRSC sits in the engine bay and the heat soak from the motor and not to mention when making boost the heat generated from compressed air leads to no good things. Now to prevent detonation you must retard timing, run colder plugs, and run the car slightly rich to have the fuel try to cool the cylinders down and while you do each one of those things, your power output goes down with them.

Turbochargers, though you may say how can I complain about the heat on a S/C and not an exhaust gassed run air pump, let me explain. What makes turbo's so great is that they are easily upgradeable. To make more boost is as easy as (in most cases) turning a knob on your dash board. When you reach the turbo's limits and you need more, you can always swap out for a larger unit. Now heat, heat is always a factor but there are 3 things that make turbo's a better choice in my eyes when it comes to heat. Turbo's need oil, not only the lubricate the turbo but it also helps keep the temprature of the unit down. Some turbo's use water to keep the tempratures down and some turbos use both water and oil to keep the tempratures of the unit down. Though water cooling and oil cooling a turbo will not make the turbo run cooler than a S/C, what puts the turbo on top is the front mount intercooler. Cooling the charge air down before it reaches the motor is the biggest plus in any forced induction system. Helps with detonation and helps make more power with the same amount of boost.

Another main factor in forced induction is fuel management. Though what comes with the kit should be efficient is most cases is not. When companies build their kits they use a test vehicle, though it is the same car that you drive it is not the same car at all. Every car that comes from the factory is built the same but they do not all run the same. Some run stronger than others for reasons unknown. Every person who force induces a car should own a standalone fuel management system. Not only does it give you full tuneability but it will help with daily reliability. Though expenisive there are no short cuts when you are looking to build something fun, fast and reliable.

Now to get to what JRSCB16A2 said "and if you really stop and think about it.....does a honda motor need more low end torque or more high end HP.....hmmmm." The answer to this question is, NO ! it does not need more low end torque. Why would and engine so rev happy such as the B16 need more low end torque when it wouldn't benifit from it? When racing, you line up at the track and launch the car at a high rpm looking for the best hole shot you can get with minimal or no wheel spin. Why? because wheel spin = bad 60ft times. Your on the highway crusin at 55mph in 5th at about 3,000rpm someone rolls next to you and you decide to hand him his ass so what do you do? Clutch in, drop down to 3rd, Gas it to kick up the rpm and boost clutch out and he is now reading your liecense plate. So now why is low end torque so important?

So my answer to your question is Turbocharge. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. Post here or you can e-mail me.

Well I'm going to go with the turbo. I've been talking to people both online and offline that have superchargers on their cars and they ae all telling me I should go with a turbo. SO... being that people that drive a supercharged civic are telling me to get a turbo over the charger... I'm going to listen to them!
I've been talking to my sponsoring dealership and I've beat them down to Greddy. ((Happy about that!))
Okay, so here's the final question for all of you that know your shit out there - unlike me w/ turbos.. What are the FIRST few mods I HAVE to get that the Greddy kit doesn't come with??

[Accord Man]

wow theres a lot of confusion on these -turbo VS Super- threads..


Platinum_Civic, all I can say is learn the facts and calculate it yourself..

Originally posted by Platinum_Civic
Well I'm going to go with the turbo. I've been talking to people both online and offline that have superchargers on their cars and they ae all telling me I should go with a turbo. SO... being that people that drive a supercharged civic are telling me to get a turbo over the charger... I'm going to listen to them!
I've been talking to my sponsoring dealership and I've beat them down to Greddy. ((Happy about that!))
Okay, so here's the final question for all of you that know your shit out there - unlike me w/ turbos.. What are the FIRST few mods I HAVE to get that the Greddy kit doesn't come with??

There's only one thing that you need with that kit and that is a standalone fuel management system. That will take care of all your fuel management needs, not to mention it will help you run the turbo safely daily.

Other than that you can get some gauges to monitor how your motor is running and getting a nice sized exhaust system (3 inch) and if you can pull it off (it is kindda illegal) a test pipe. The test pipe with the large exhaust will help with the spool time of the turbo.

The Greddy turob kit comes with larger injectors and a piggy back computer to correct the fuel curve for the larger injectors. The kit also comes with or without a intercooler and the two are made for a stock engine, add a good fuel pump something like a MSD inline and your good. Have Fun.

[armyguy5]

buy me one!!!!

Just ordered CAI and Front Strut Bar =) finally some mods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chris

Does any one know what is out there for honda accords? mine is a 94 lx...... thanks for your help

All i read is turbo turbo turbo...... i think supercharger, not claming to be all kowing about these things a supercharger has no lag and does less damage to your motor.

Originally posted by SofaKingSmooth
Does any one know what is out there for honda accords? mine is a 94 lx...... thanks for your help

All i read is turbo turbo turbo...... i think supercharger, not claming to be all kowing about these things a supercharger has no lag and does less damage to your motor.

What turbo lag? I have a turbo'd non turbo eclipse. What is this lag you are talking about? I think it takes 2 tenths of a second to be at full boost. You guys act like the lag is 5 seconds. After the intial "turbo lag" there is nothing. It just takes time for the exhaust gas to push the turbine. After it's going you don't see anything. Turbochargers own Superchargers in every car. Infact, the only time i've EVER heard about a 6second Supercharged car was in this months 5.0 Mustang Magazine. It's the fastest supercharged stang in the world but oddly enough, the last sentence in the article is...."As hooked as he is on the drag-racing feeling, we don't find it difficult to imagine a big red flash blowing past the finish line before all those big-blocks and turbo cars."

let us know how it goes when you finally get her running...

Although no one cares anymore.

1. If you want quick cheap power then hey I'd say nitrious oxide.

2. If you have a engine that can keep up until your turbo kicks in and kicks ass then get turbo. A turbo system actually saves gas too did you know that? haha, seriously my dad is a engineer. Because of its better efficiency, but thats if you drive like you would if you were stock and didn't race. Anyways, its a more efficient system because its using energy that would of went to waste anyways. Think of the graph during a race as flat, growing steady then shooting up once it kicks in.

3. A super charger is a steady source of power. It grows pretty dang good, but won't peak like turbo will. Plus it always draws energy off your engine, so its not very efficient for day to day use.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by Zanza
Although no one cares anymore.

1. If you want quick cheap power then hey I'd say nitrious oxide.

2. If you have a engine that can keep up until your turbo kicks in and kicks ass then get turbo. A turbo system actually saves gas too did you know that? haha, seriously my dad is a engineer. Because of its better efficiency, but thats if you drive like you would if you were stock and didn't race. Anyways, its a more efficient system because its using energy that would of went to waste anyways. Think of the graph during a race as flat, growing steady then shooting up once it kicks in.

3. A super charger is a steady source of power. It grows pretty dang good, but won't peak like turbo will. Plus it always draws energy off your engine, so its not very efficient for day to day use.

in theory you would save gas because you are using exaust gas to power the turbine, but the thing is you mush increase your fuel input to compensate for the added air, and that is not an increase in gas milage at all.


and for lag, if you keep a small turbo with a relitivly low psi(12-15 psi is low ona built motor) then you will spool quickly, however go take a ride in a car with a gigantac slug and 25-30psi.. you'll notice the lag then, but when the turbo is spooled.... whiplash

To the guy bitching about turbo lag.........there's nothing better(other than boost itself) In just about every modded FWD import I've been in, the tires squeel like crazy off the line, wheelspin sucks to a certain degree. And those are NA cars. Imagine a S/c'ed car...pretty much instant boost(yes, S/C's can have a little lag too, but HARDLY any) last time I looked, that made the tires spin worse, which results in slower 60' and 1320' times. Now take my car(HB, LS engine, T3/T4 turbo) on good tires(Advan A-032R's) When I launch, ESPECIALLY on the street, the tires melt themselves if I take off even 1psi in boost. When I launch it about 1 second before it gets into boost......hold on, the car lags just enough to keep the tires planted, then takes off like a dream. Also, if you're really that worried about a little lag, BUY A SMALLER TURBO!!!! Thanks to the hybrid turbo, my car spools up right where I need it to, and has the power on the big end cause of the housing. You can always go ball-bearing too.

My lord. I have NEVER read a thread with more bullshit and lack of knowledge in my entire life.

Platinum_Civic- disregard just about EVERYTHING in this thread, as listening to it will lead you to one end- a blown motor.

Let's start from the top.

Turbo vs super. In all applications other than autoX, turbo is the way to go. period.
since you'd already decided on a greddy kit, lets take it from there.


The greddy kit probably won't come with an intercooler or a Blow off valve. I highly recommend you get these two things. PWR makes some kick-ass 'coolers at great prices. blitz DD is a good BOV, as is the greddy type S.

How does a turbo work? one guy says you save gas. dude- off yourself from threads that you obviously have not a ****ing clue what you are talking about.

A turbo has 2 sides. A compressor and a turbine. the turbo manifold (no- not a header as moron #2 stated) attaches like a normal header would, but it has a flange for the turbo to be mounted on or a wastegate depending on the actual manifold. Exahust gas coming out of your motor goes down this pipe and spins the turbine wheel and then exits out the tail pipe as usual. the turbine wheel is connected to the compressor wheel by an axel. it is this axel that requires oil for lubrication. The compressor wheel is now turned, and thus COMPRESSES air. it doesn't PUSH. thats a huge misconcetption. what is the by-product of compression? heat. heat sucks. heat leads to detonation. so what do we do? we run this compressed air through the intercooler, to drop the temperature hopefully down to near-ambient temperature. Keep in mind- there is a HUGE difference between air volume and air mass. the air voume is what creates the psi. air mass is what gives you power. Compressed air is more dense, and thus, you can fit more of it for any given area. there's some mathematical formula for it, but thats out of the scope of this post.

What is PSI and why is it over rated?
psi is the amount of air NOT going into the motor. it is measured at the intake manifold. while a little psi helps to get the air in a little faster, its the air mass that gives you power.
example- a t66 is a huge turbo. a t25 is a small turbo found on some stock cars.

a t66 flowing 5 psi will produce 3-6 times the amount of power that a t25 will at 10 psi.

saying - "yo, i wanna b00st my shiz lik 8 psi. Do i need internals?"
not only makes you sound like an idiot, but proves that you don't know dick about turbos, boost, or honda tuning in general.

Platinum_Civic - I'm running out of time for the total explination, so let me get right to your direct question.

What are the FIRST few mods I HAVE to get that the Greddy kit doesn't come with??

1- get rid of the "blue box" that the kit comes with. all that thing does is make you run really rich, thus pouring a lot of fuel on the pistons in an attempt to keep them cool, and thus resist detonation. What it really does is suck a shit load of horsepower and doesn't really help you resist detonation. so, sell that or beat it with a bat. do something with it- but don't put it in your car.
2- PWR intercooler. they are cheap, and more efficient than a spearco. if you need help finding one, send me a pm and i can help you locate one for about $300 or so.
3- Blow Off Valve. see above
4- 3" exhaust and a high flow cat with a real 3" center, and depending on your down pipe, probably need a 2 1/2 inlet for that side
5- injectors. i'm not sure what comes with the kit. but if they aren't at least 310's, upgrade to 440s.
6- hondata. the only think thats going to save your motor.
7- dyno tune with a wideband o2. not only will you get more power, you will not blow up if you are tuned properly. i can not stress how important dyno tuning is.

if you have any questions that need real answers, feel free to send me a pm.

-Brian

3 days, no reply. i'm gald i wasted my time typing all that

well i read it

I'm interested for a turbo in my car but since its a 2002 ex, i'm having some trouble finding one.

Do a custom kit then

LOL I was going to respond to this thread, but damn guys...there is a lot of miss information on this thread...we should just let this die.

I've got an opinion on this. JRSC, nice power @ first then nice looks in my mirror. Dont get me wrong, I have rode in plenty of JRSC vehicles and tuned on them like crazy, but, they dont seem to keep the top end power that turbo's do. When your revin' at about 6k rpm and the drive belt flies off the damn charger that lonely stang that everyone is bringin up is long gone anyway and your lookin for a shop.......

I'm all about the turbo set up. On my 97 EX I threw on a F-Max kit with the headgasket option and am running 12 psi daily. No problems as of yet and the rides been on the street for almost a year. Now I do have a dual stage boost controller which is pushing out 15 psi at the flip of a switch. I also have an AEM standalone though. The lag isnt really noticable when you drop at 3k anyway. Maybe a second, maybe not.
This kit cost,,,,,,,,3k.

http://www.teamtrio.com/greg.htm

[TeriyakiBroccoli]

jesus this thread is old.