Maybe new computer time

[pdiggitydogg]

I think that it might be new computer time...
This one's drives dont work well, the hd clicks and clacks...its just showing its 4yrs (which isnt old compared to the desktop upstairs thats 10). I cant upgrade it, because its a laptop.

I do NOT want to buy a prepackaged setup at BestBuy or CircuitCity and I dont want to be stuck with the stupid software that Dell rams down your throat when you build a custom one with them.

Does anyone know of a place that allows full customization and only includes an OS? I dont think Im computer-savy enough to build my own from scratch... I wouldnt even know where to start.
How much would I actually save building my own anyway?

[Wren57]

www.ecollegepc.com

[ebpda9]

i think winbook has some pretty good systems. www.winbook.com also their laptops come only with an os and that's about it.

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Just because you have a laptop doesn't mean you can't replace a HDD.

Anyway, sounds like you want a new one anyway. If you're not building your own, Dell is pretty good. If you don't like their software, don't use it. No big deal.

You might not save lots of money building your own, but for the same price, you'll get MUCH better components than buying pre-fabbed. If you want to build your own, we could easily walk you through it. Its very easy , just plug stuff together. We could help you pick components as well.

[pdiggitydogg]

This thing isnt worth upgrading. Its been through 3hd's in 4 years...and it never leaves the desk. Compared to the 3+GHz processors that Im looking at, the 700mhz is just shit-speed. The video card is crap too - it has a hard time running Warcraft3.

Its the picking parts that scares me.
Since Ive never given a rip about it, it seems thats there a ton of things out there. I know that not every part will work together (different motherboards, memory, hd connections) and thats whats stopping me...its greek to me. The physical building, I know I could handle.

[94_AcCoRd_EX]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg

Its the picking parts that scares me.
Since Ive never given a rip about it, it seems thats there a ton of things out there. I know that not every part will work together (different motherboards, memory, hd connections) and thats whats stopping me...its greek to me. The physical building, I know I could handle.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It takes some time, but we can help you pick out good parts. I think I've built 10-15 computers now and haven't had any serious problems with it.

Also, the clock speed wars have changed. With AMD's efficient 64 bit architecture, a nice 2-2.5 GHz clock with compare with the high end pentiums for a little less money.

The only real compatability to worry about is motherboard -- memory. If you buy a new motherboard, chances are it will have pretty nice sound on it already, as well as LAN, firewire, USB (duh), etc. All you have to get is a good video card. Hard drive connections aren't really an issue. Either choose IDE or SATA. Most new motherboards have connections for both, but the in the future IDE will become more scarce, so go with SATA for about $3 more. Anyway, if you're serious about building, throw up some ideas and a price range and we can help you out.

You'll need:
Power supply
Motherboard
CPU
heatsink/thermal paste (if you are overclocking or buy an OEM CPU that doesn't come with one)
memory
cables
hard drive(s)
video
dvd/dvd-r/etc.
mouse?
case
fans

[pdiggitydogg]

Yeah, Id rather go w/ an amd athlon, I think. But since theyre less mainstream I dont know what their numbers mean. Like whats the difference between the 3100 and the 3400? Why does the 2800 cost more than the 3100?

Just looking at the 7 different motherboards on the athlon section of collegepc makes me wanna say "screw this"
The price difference from $85-140 has to mean something...
The ASUS and MSI are both $140, have the same features...ok... but then the Gigabyte above it matches them but is only $115.
(What the hell does "1394" mean anyway?)

Why does memory from Corsair cost 2x as much as Ultra-Fast?
(Are we like comparing APC to Mugen or what?)
I didnt even know that mboards came with that much memory space...4!? Could I just put 2 512's in there, to make 1gb, instead of a single 1gb, to save a little cash? Does it work that way?

What does "ATA" mean on Hd's? IE - "ATA100", "ATA150"
"Cache Serial" vs just "Cache"?

If I decide to use a different audio card, is that also just plug-in? What do I do w/ the sound-out from the mboard?

(man I dont think Ive ever felt like such a noob)

[blind34_1]

as for motherboard quality, its a lot like a car stereo. Each company (well, most) have low, mid, and high dollar models, with varying degrees in each (mid-high, high-budget, etc.) So you really have to compare what features you want onboard (lan, sound, video, etc.) to what chipset you want, to brand loyalty, to what they bundled with it. Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, DFI, I've heard are all good. I've heard that Soyo, and Tyan suck balls. But pretty much, you get want you pay for. $80 is a cheaper board, while 100-130 will get you something pretty nice. I spent 200, and got a great board.

1394 means IEEE1394, which is firewire. Its used for video cameras and other hardware that needs lots more bandwidth than usb offers. I personally have never used firewire.

Memory is something, i my opinion, you don't want to skimp on. Corsair is known for their quality, whereas Ultra-Fast is not. We almost are comparing APC to Mugen here, except if you go with a non name brand, it wont neccessarily break on you (liek APC stuff always will). Some people buy crap memory and never have a problem.

The amount you could save by going with cheap memory typically is not much. You really have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples here. If the Corsair you looked at was 2x more than the cheap brand, it was probably a different kind of memory (ddr2 compared to plain old ddr is a HUGE difference)

could I just put 2 512's in there, to make 1gb, instead of a single 1gb, to save a little cash? Does it work that way?

yes. In fact, its better to do it this way. Using two 512s in Dual Channel Mode will net you more performance in most cases. and its cheaper. I would suggest buying a 1gb kit, rather than buying two 512 sticks separate. a kit makes sure that both sticks were made in the same process, same batch.

As for hard drives, you'll want to go with SATA, or Serial ATA drives. Way faster, better performance, and they cost about the same as old ATA100, PATA, or Parallel ATA. (Honestyl, I don't know want ATA stands for. I suck!)
Hard drive manufacturers are trying to phase out ATA, and also low capacity drives, just because higher capacity drives are so cheap. If you're looking to buy an non-SATA drive, look at best buy and circuit city first. They offer insane rebates most times. Make sure the drive has an 8mb chache, and not a 2mb cache, and that it is 7200rpm, and not 5400rpm or anything.

Unless you are really into audio, the on-board sound on most motherboards is more than sufficient. Some of them offer High def 7.1 audio support even. Not getting a sound card is one area where you want to cut costs, i think.

don't skimp on your power supply either. you'll want at least a 400 watt, and go with a brand like Antec or Enlight. I personally bough an Antec TRUE430 for about 75.

As for where to buy this stuff, shop around. I watch newegg.com, monarchcomputers.com (<-might not be the right url), and zipzoomfly.com <-they offer free 2day shipping)

[pdiggitydogg]

That explained a lot...thanks a lot guys!

I guess I'll start getting parts together now. If I come up with something else, I'll just post it here.

[ebpda9]

on the drives i would get some scsi ones. more expensive but fast as hell.

[blind34_1]

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
That explained a lot...thanks a lot guys!

I guess I'll start getting parts together now. If I come up with something else, I'll just post it here.

Yeah, once you have an idea of what you want to go with, post all the components. I like using newegg's wish list feature. You can put together a machine, it will tell you how much itll cost, and you can save your list and come back to it later.

Just to give you an idea of what a full machine would cost, heres what I am building for myself currently:

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz LGA 775 - 179$
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8GPNXP Duo - 205$
Memory: Mushkin pc3200 (ddr400) 1gb kit - 175$
Video: XFX 6600 GT 128mb - 179$
Power Supply: Antec TRUE430 - 75$

just with those components we are up to a little over $800. but keep in mind I am going with Intel, which costs more, I went with a high dollar mainboard, which most people dont do, and I wanted a non-bundled powersupply (most cases come with a power supply-I don't trust them unless I'm buying an antec or enlight case)

I haven't included a hard drive, case, monitor, or any extras. Like I said, a hard drive can be had for cheap after rebates at circuit shitty or breast buy, but they won't be SATA (So make sure you have ATA support on your motherboard (most still offer one channel, which means you can run two ATA devices. Remember most optical drives are an ATA device, so that leaves room for one ATA hard drive.)

Case is a personal choice. You generally get what you pay for. House brand cases are fine, but I still like to go name brand. Antec makes some good quality and nice looking cases, for reasonable prices. Enlight makes some good solid cases, but look more plain than Antec. Lian Li is the super high end of the case spectrum. I dont even consider them because of the cost, but they are fantastic looking cases.

You may want to consider a case that has a removable motherboard tray, as this makes it easier to install the board, especially if you've never done this before. If you're not careful when installing the board, and you scrape the bottom of it on a drive bay or something, you may have just destroyed the board. A removable tray makes it TONS easier to install the board, with less risk of being fux0red.

And also, while AMD is the cpu maker of choice, and I haven't dealt with their latest products, I have had problems with them. In installing a new heat sink, I collapsed the core on a Thunderbird 1.1ghz. Poor AMD design coupled with my heavy-handedness cost me a processor. If you apply uneven pressure to the heatsink as you are latching it down, you can collapse the core on the processor, rendering it useless. All my friends run AMDs and have assembled their own machines, and have no problems. I just don't like suporting a company that makes a shoddy product. Intel actually protects the core, and it is very difficult to mess it up.

Also, intel is nice because it will throttle itself back if it gets too hot. AMDs will just burn themselves up, (this may have changed, i've heard of new motherboard hardware that will save your chip if this happens.)

So anyway, I'm not going to tell you which way to go, thats almost a matter of opinion. I would recommend you do some reading before hand. anandtech.com does great reviews, as well as sharkyextreme.com .

[pdiggitydogg]

neat, good info
I assume the chip will not come attached to the board, even if I buy them together. What size e- soldering gun should I use so I dont fry the board?
I put a modchip in my old ps1 a long time ago and it was tiny, pen-style. Would that be alright?

How does the motherboard attach to the case, anyway?

I dont think I need or even want a flashy case. Afterall, that is what it is...just a case (IMO). The flashier it looks, the less I want it. I just want a box that's black. I assume that I could pick that up at like Best Buy for pretty cheap.

[ebpda9]

hmm the mother boards have a slot or socket in them to attach the processor. there is no soldering needed. the magnetic field from the soldering gun could fry the board on contact. the motherbaord is attached to the case with some pole screws. and the case matters, just not for looks but the way it is designed to flow. my old compaq computer came with it's proprietary case and the fans would work 24 hrs a day. i changed the case because i needed to use more drives in it and the fans only come on ocassionally.

[blind34_1]

you will not have to solder a thing, everything is sockets and slots.(edit: whoops, he already said that!^^)

and yes, good point there, its important to get a case that flows air well. A cheapy house brand might cost less, but it probably wasn't designed or tested well, and is probably a knock-off.

Here is a case I was considering. A little pricey though.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...129-127&DEPA=1

As well as this one:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...112-025&DEPA=1

I can personally vouch for this case design. We are using these in building all new computers for the school district. Solidly made, gets the job done. blow hole in the side sucks air into the case (as opposed to blowing it out) which goes direct to the cpu fan. There are still the main fans, one in front, one in back for the standard airflow model. front usb finally, the older versions didnt have that (my current model). negatives are no removable mobo tray, and the power supply is only 350watt. depending on what you are running (video card, number of drives) you may be okay. overall, its a good design, I think.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...116-172&depa=1

This is the case that I bought for my new machine. From what I read, its a good case. Flows air well, using two 120mm fans (big uns). My only problem with it so far is that the metal is warped a little around the first card slot, so the blank won't fit right, but thats minor. It's nice, the company includes a little kit with it that has a screwdriver, a bunch of screws, motherboard standoffs and zip ties. nice touch. no removable mobo tray, though.
http://dealsonic.com/ahx1blknmida.html

[pdiggitydogg]

Ok, whats with different socket motherboards?
(intels)
Socket 775 LGA
Socket 478
Is one better than the other? Newer standard?
ATX? mATX?

Is this a decent board?
http://www.cbwstores.com/cart/produc...oducts_id=7236
I see that this board supports DDR and DIMM...whats the difference?

Does this HD work with the board I chose? Is it alright?
http://www.cbwstores.com/cart/produc...oducts_id=5701
Besides the obvious difference in size and price - What about this one?
http://www.cbwstores.com/cart/produc...oducts_id=5672
(This is IDE right, not SATA?)

Lastly (for now :o ), can dvdrw write cdrw also? Ive seen some that do, but does that hold true for most/all?
(Side Question: What format do I need to make video files to burn them to a DVD-R to watch it on my dvd player that accepts DVDR? Will .avi work?)
DVDRW also function as DVD-Rom right?

Ok, I lied, one more thing. I want a Video card that offers TV-out (does the motherboard offer that in some cases?), video-in, and I want it to be good enough to play at least say doom3, w/o it being super shitty/choppy. Do I need a 256mb for that?
Suggestions? (Besides the ones that cost $300)

The more I look at this stuff the more I feel that Im only qualified to pick a floppy drive and MAYBE sound...and a keyboard.

[blind34_1]

LGA775 is the latest socket type for Intel chips. It's also called Socket T (I think it was codenamed Tejas, but anyway..) Thats the one I'm using (building right now actually)

LGA stands for Land Grid Array, and the 775 is how many contacts (previously called pins) it has. Before LGA, we had PGA which is Pin Grid Array. I don't like these if you bend a pin, you are screwed. Doesn't usually happen, but my dad has done it, broke one clean off. I bent one, but we fixed it.

Socket 478 is one step behind LGA. It is a PGA style chip with, you guessed it, 478 pins. We are using these for the school district installs, and they are a fine intel product.

The thing to remember about LGA775, is that the board must support it, and the board you choose will likely have PCI express instead of AGP and minimal PATA support. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, they are forcing use to use the new standards, but some people are put off by that. Just something to keep in mind.

as for boards, mATX i think stands for mini ATX. I like to go with just standard ATX, because I'm not building a small form-factor pc.

the first board you listed, i found for cheaper, with free 2day shipping, from a reliable source:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=240936

all new memory are DIMMs. All you need to worry about is whether it is DDR I or DDR II. There is also some more confusion to add to it, when you are talking about the speed of the memory. PC3200 = DDR400. Why they do this, I still don't know, but the 400 means the memory runs at 400 Mhz. This is the fastest DDR I memory that you can get, at least as far as I know.

As for the board, Intel makes fine boards, and you are assured of compatibility. My dad swears by them, but I wanted something a little more flashy, thats why I went with a Gigabyte Duo board.

Go down this list:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...& Brand=INTEL
and you'll see the price difference and what features are available. 925 is the latest chipset version, but 915 is still very new also.

Honestly, I'll get back to you on which board is the best bang for the buck.

Hard drives, again look here:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...oryCode=011016

I would stay with Western Digital and Seagate, although I know many people would disagree with me. Hitachi and Maxtor are okay too, but they aren't my first choice.

both the drives you chose will work fine with your board. that board has 4 SATA channels, and one PATA channel (You can run two devices on one PATA channel, using master and slave settings)

Most DVDRW drives come as combo drives these days. this means it will write DVD +/-R/RW and CD-R/RW and probably some more formats you won't care about. I currently use a TDK 880N which is a fine drive, that burns DVDs at 8x and CDs at i think 32x.

I just bought a Dual Layer Sony drive DRU710a, that still supports DVDs and CDs, but will burn Both layers of compatible discs. This means that if I have a movie from the store that I want to make a backup of, and it is in the DVD9 format, which is about 8.5 Gb, I can make a 1:1 copy of it; no compression! (currently, my drive only supports DVD5, which is the standard 4.7gb discs. Having a movie I want to copy that is almost double this size is a problem, which is where programs like DVD shrink come in handy.)

As far as making videos you can watch on your settop box, thats a whole 'nother can o worms. In short, you will be able to make those kinds of discs using your DVDRW drive, about 10gigs of free hard drive space, DVD Decrypter (free program), Nero (not free, but crackable), and blank DVD+R discs (not free, but cheap these days $20 for a 50 spindle)

and yes, DVDRW functions as DVDRom.

video cards, ah this is fun. a lot of them have S-Video outs, so you don't have to worry. I think they also call this DVI out, but I'm not sure. Anyone else, feel free to chime in here. If you want to play Doom3, you're in luck. Doom3 runs extremely well on lower end cards. check out this:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2146

that will pretty much tell you whats what. I went with an XFX Nvidia 6600 GT 128mb. Although, from what I've read, having 256mb of video memory will make a significant difference in Doom3. Things to check out when considering a video card is FULL DirectX 9 support, and the latest pixel shading.

[pdiggitydogg]

I dont really need something super-duper flashy/special. Just want it to work and Im going to make movies like once in a great while.
I imagine the 915 would be fine for me.

Im thinking about the Radeon 9600 XT...but Im having a hard time understanding what the differences mean on the ati site.
Memory Clock of the xt is 300 and that of the se is 400
Engine Clock xt = 500, se = 325
Geometry Rate xt = 250mp se = 325
WTF do those mean??
--No doubt, its good enough for doom3 and more--

Ok, ok...this is what Ive picked out after writing everything down. Is it all compatible and is it all alright?
Mother Board: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=241771
HD bundle: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...01208-1-316604
CPU: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ductCode=80803
Memory: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80098-2
Video: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=320750

I have no clue on cases (still). Does it matter what kind (athlon/p4/mini,mid,full-tower)? Man...just pick one for me! Id like it to be as cheap as possible w/o getting total shit.

CD/dvd drives I'll pick later I guess

[Shaved &/or Laid]

ive done several AMD processors with shitty tools and never fucked a core. Also, 64 bit processing is a good idea if youre going to want to keep up with the times. You only put a heatsink on once, anyways. (most of the time) id suggest a thermaltake heatsink and definitely dont skimp on paste. if theres a 10$ tube, get the 10$ tube. Ive gone through the trouble of removing heatsink just to change the paste.

Tyan boards are fine. Soyo does kinda suck though. (exploded) and Chaintech sucks also.

Get ASUS or ABIT or GIGABYTE and youll be fine.

ALSO if youre graphics serious Nvidia has a new board coming out by Xmas (nforce4 SLI) that runs dual video cards together. They have specific GeForce cards for hte application and you can run wither single or dual 128's or 256's and i believe it uses a 64-bit AMD.

WHICH REMINDS ME.....

forget PCI
forget AGP

look for PCIe or PCIx or whatever they put to represent PCI express. its the new standard and is muuuuuuuuch more convenient and its faster than pci and AGP both. And yes SATA is suggested. if you like gaming, Western Digital makes Raptor 10,000rpm SATA drives that can be setup for RAID (tw0 60GB drives together is still 60 GB but much faster)

uhm...thats about it. read what everyone else said too lol.

and MAKE SURE THE MOTHERBOARD DOESNT TOUCH THE CASE WHEN YOU TURN THE COMPUTER ON EVER

(instant destruction)

[blind34_1]

good choice on the motherboard. it is pci express, and supports mostly SATA drives, with one UDMA channel (two IDE devices)

Processor is the exact same one I got, and so far no problems.

Memory is fine, but seems a bit high for kingston, not by much though. And you are only going for 512mb? Might want to consider a 1gb kit (and run it in dual channel mode) for max performance. But if you're on a budget, I understand.

Your video card is a problem. it is AGP, which does not work with your motherboard, as it is Pci express. not to worry though, the price difference is not much. I went with an Nvidia XFX 6600 GT 128 PCI express, from here: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch..._Code= 190439
, and it makes Call of Duty fly!. If you want to stay with ATI's products, you'll want to look at their X-series line. a X600 is the pciexpress version of the 9600. (You might want to consider an X700, if they are available) look carefully between the XT and the PRO, and how much memory you get. ATI's boards have a higher clock speed, but nvidia competes extremely well with a lower clock speed. In reading an article from anandtech, I decided I wanted to go with nvidia, and I've had good luck with them in the past.

Video cards are tricky, I don't understand a lot of their specs, I just go off second hand information from reviews and such. Stay away from an x800 SE, they suck balls.


And yeah, picking a case is not easy, there are so many! What you need is a mid tower, using the ATX form factor (so your motherboard will fit.) You need to decide what color you want (I try to match the case color to cd drive color, for aesthetics), do you care if it has a window, and if you want to skimp on the power supply.

I would not recommend going cheap on the power supply. Having a crap PSU can be the most frustrating and hard to diagnose things that could go wrong. For this reason I tend to go higher end, and don't get a bundled power supply. If you plan on buying an Antec, Enlight, or Thermaltake case, then a bundled supply will be okay, as these manufacturers make a very good product (the first two especially)

I would also recommend buying nothing less than a 400 watt powersupply. This is for scalability in the future. Say if you want to add a second drive, and switch to a higher power video card, you'll need that extra juice. (especially if the pc modding bug bites you...)

here are some suggestions for case/power supply combos:

This case (Evercase makes a good product, just bought for my girlfriend, it was SO nice and easy to work with):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...127-047&depa=1

with this power supply (love the TRUE line, using one now):
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...103-909&DEPA=0

Or this power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-604&depa=0

Or this case (I heard that this is a good case, and it looks awesome):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...163-002&depa=1

with any of the above mentioned PSUs.

or this case/psu combo:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...116-172&depa=1

the only thing that bothers me about that one is its only a 350watt supply, but if your not into adding a bunch of stuff down the road, then this should be fine for you.

ive done several AMD processors with shitty tools and never fucked a core. Also, 64 bit processing is a good idea if youre going to want to keep up with the times. You only put a heatsink on once, anyways. (most of the time) id suggest a thermaltake heatsink and definitely dont skimp on paste. if theres a 10$ tube, get the 10$ tube. Ive gone through the trouble of removing heatsink just to change the paste.

I just suck when it comes to putting on heatsinks. I've learned now that its best to remove the board from the case when putting a heatsink on. I just put one on a socket A 1800 athlon, and man does socket A suck. what a bad design, thats why I generally don't like AMD. but their new FX series I think are designed just like intels, no exposed core.

And I just use the thermal pad if its already there. If I was overclocking or really superstitious I would remove the pad and use arctic silver grease, but I don't think its necessary. Did you notice a significant change in heat when you changed paste?

ALSO if youre graphics serious Nvidia has a new board coming out by Xmas (nforce4 SLI) that runs dual video cards together. They have specific GeForce cards for hte application and you can run wither single or dual 128's or 256's and i believe it uses a 64-bit AMD.

I don't understand how anyone is going to use SLI when most boards only come with ONE pcie 16x slot. Wheres the other card gonna go?

MAKE SURE THE MOTHERBOARD DOESNT TOUCH THE CASE WHEN YOU TURN THE COMPUTER ON EVER

^^tru dat. What he means is make sure that the board is seated and secured on the standoffs, and that there are no screws or other foreign material on the underside of the board, touching it to the case. This will cause a short and almost certain death of the board. Always work on the board on top of the anti static bag, and when you are ready to put in the case, be carefull to not scratch it on anything (drive bays, standoffs). having a light touch is crucial here.

[pdiggitydogg]

Cant I run dual 512's for memory? Its cheaper that way.
Oh, and I only picked the kingston becauase its something that Ive actually heard of...Its whats in my current setup.

Oh yeah, I'll be buying that last case for $53! I dont think I'll be adding anything to it, once its built. Plus, I can always upgrade to a 400w right?

What the hell do I do with thermal paste?? I understand what its for...I think. But where does it go? I assume I dont just slather the stuff all over the cpu. I dont plan on doing anything special to it for overclocking...I'll just be running it normally.

I guess I'll have to do some looking around at video cards. This is going to be one of those things that I piece together over a smaller period of time (part w/ this check, part with that one).
Curious:
http://www.xpcgear.com/asusxen5750g.html

Agh, Id much rather buy lyna's longblock though...oh well.

[blind34_1]

looks like the pcx 5750 is nvidia answer to the x600xt. heres a review:
http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...?articleid=581

its a budget card, but might be just what you need.

and as for memory, I misunderstood. I thought you were only going to go with one stick of 512, not two. Yes, two sticks of 512 in dual channel mode is the best way to go. but again, take a look at a 1gb kit. it makes sure you are getting memory from the same process and batch, meaning the chips on the stick will be the same brand, made at the same time, in the same vat, etc. doesn't really matter, but if your a purist like me, then you want that extra assurance of quality for $10-$20 more.

yeah, you can always upgrade your psu when you need to, its just nice to not have to think about it whenever you are adding something else. just my opinion.

don't worry about thermal paste. Thermal paste is what you put on top of the processor before you put the heatsink on. This allows efficient transfer of heat from the core to the heatsink fins.

I say don't worry about the paste because with the processor you are buying, it comes with a heatsink with a thermal "pad". The pad is a form of paste that melts on the processor when you run it for the first time. Really convenient for system builders making hundreds of machines, and you are gaurenteed not to screw it up.

However, lots of people don't like the pad, saying its not as good as high quality grease. i disagree, i think it is fine for most users. unless you are overclocking, or running extremely hot otherwise, the few degrees difference is not going to make a significant difference.

If you were to use grease (aka paste, interchangable), you slather a nice even coat over the cpu's top. on a socket A amd for example, I just put a coat on the exposed core. For an intel like what you are buying, im not sure. I think I would put paste as far to the sides as possible. I use a flathead screwdriver and a light touch, and spread the grease like butter on bread.

if you are piecing stuff together check by check, I would buy your case first. No real reason, thats just the first thing I would get, rather than getting all the fun expensive goodies that you can't use. Its a terrible feeling knowing you've got all this cool stuff sitting in your room, but you don't have a case, or a hard drive, etc. don't be tempted to put the new stuff in your current box!

oh and don't wait too long between parts. Prices change soooo fast with computer stuff its not even funny. The memory you buy today could be 10 bucks cheaper tomorrow, no joke. Don't let this stop you from buying stuff, because then you'll never buy it (took me 6 months to finally break down and just BUY.) But just remember, the things that don't fall as fast in price are cases, hard drives (with the exception of best buys rebates), monitors, and power supplys. video cards are next, then processors, mobos, and memory is what really starts to fluctuate. just what I've noticed.

[pdiggitydogg]

Ok, I guess Ive got my parts picked out.

I will wait on the video card...do a little more reading, try to figure them out more.
The rest I think I have a very basic understanding of.

[blind34_1]

Good luck with everything. Don't worry, if you need any guidance, ask on here or use google; there is a WEALTH of information on just about any possible problem you could have.

[AzCivic]

very good thread!! in a couple of months I either want to buy another Dell or possibly build my own this time. this helped alot!

i dont think this got answered though: say if all the components of 2 computers were pretty much identical, what would the savings be if you build your own?

[ebpda9]

depends on where you buy them.

[AzCivic]

how about dell.com

[ebpda9]

i like their systems, but sometimes they come bundledwith software i don't like, just like any other major manufacturer. last computer i bought was from winbook and it came with just an os installed, something that i really like. but then again i am someone that used to work with computers everyday, especially the software and i know what i want and what software is crap. keep in mind that with dell, compaq and hp you pay a lot of $$$ for the software bundled that really sucks. give me a computer that has just a windows xp pro and then norton av and i will be a happy camper. i can install the other software that i need on my own.

[AzCivic]

but wouldnt buying software seperately cost way more?

[pdiggitydogg]

sometimes it does, yeah
But I already have everything I need for software and dont want more forced on me.

[AzCivic]

so all the software programs i have on this computer can be used on the next?

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by AzCivic
but wouldnt buying software seperately cost way more?

yup, but dell, gateway etc will just bundle needless software on their computers. kinda like music match jukebox dell edition x.xx. the program is free, or you can get winamp or quinware free and they are a lot better than what they give you. also they put some tools to check the computer for errors. there are a shit load of free programs out there. i think the most expesive of them all are the ms office tools which i really like having. then there are a lot of programs that are cracked lol.

[pdiggitydogg]

if you have cd copies of them, sure

[blind34_1]

Originally posted by AzCivic
how about dell.com

it took me two days to think about this question, so here goes.

Dell, Gateway and other similar companies have advantages and disadvantages over the independent PC builder.

The advantages:

They get their parts for DIRT cheap, usually through quantity discounts and contracts with other companies.

They also use the lowest quality parts possible. This is where we get into the concept of disposable PCs. Disposable PCs are basically systems using parts so cheap, it makes more sense to keep replacing the parts that go bad with equally cheap parts, because after a few cycles of this, its time for an upgrade.

Of course, this only makes sense If you like having the latest and greatest all the time. Me, I like building a machine that is going to last me 5 years (which my last one did, and is still going)

The other advantage is convenience. You order a machine from dell and it is at your door in 2 days. you set it up and it WILL work out of the box. Your software is loaded and you are ready to go.

tech support is another advantage. whatever.

Sounds pretty good, right? Why would anyone NOT go with Dell or Gateway? Well, that depends. Next we look at the...

disadvantages:

I already mentioned a major disadvantage above; cheap ass parts. Yes is runs, but for how long, and how well? When something breaks, you are probably screwed. I've seen machines from Gateway, Dell, Compaq and others that use proprietary parts. This means that a certain part is not a standard size or type. This means that, say, if a power supply goes bad, you can't just go to the store and replace it, you have to call Compaq, Dell or whoever has a replacement part. And be prepared to bend over and take it because they'll rape you.

If you try to fix it yourself, or add anything, chances are you have voided any warranty. This is an assumption, mind you, i dont know this. This policy would vary from company to company.

Building a machine yourself costs a little more, but you get what you want. When you do the 'Customize' dance with the big companies, you are limited by what they choose as an option. In other words, what they can get for cheap.

When building your own machine, you can choose from any brand, any type, any speed, for a competitive price. You just can't do that with a Dell or Gateway. And since most of us are never happy with anything we get 'out of the box' (think your car) you surely wont be happy with your computer from dell or gateway.

When you build your own machine, the components you buy come with manufacturers warrantys. I would doubt if you get any of this information when you buy a dell. You have to deal with dell when something breaks, and good luck with that.
I suspected my dvd drive wasnt working properly, and so sent it in to TDK with a description of the problem, and what troubleshooting methods I applied. They sent me a brand new unit, with a firmware upgrade, for FREE. Turned out it was a batch of bum media, and the drive was fine, but that shows that manufacturers stand behind their products.

their tech support usually sucks, no matter how good they say it is. In most cases these days, it is outsourced to people from India. They are very knowledgable, and work for cheap, but you can't understand a word they say! That's a problem. (I have no problem with people from India, just their accent)

Bundled software. ohh, I could go on and on about this. Basically, bundled software is bad. For one, its usually a crippled or "special" version. bad. Also, you don't get a clean new copy of Windows XP, you get the "Dell Version" of an OEM copy of Windows Home (usually. Pro is an option). They usually call this a set of recovery discs, and it is used for conveneince of reloading your PC. I don't like it because it loads a bunch of other garbage that you don't want. I don't want Dell to customize my windows install, I do that.

Another related point is that, if you buy windows preinstalled, you cannot use that copy on any other machine. Bundled or OEM OS's are only good for the machine they came with. Now, when you build a new machine and use your copy of windows that YOU BOUGHT for your last machine, all you have to do is reactivate (which may or may not involve you being interrogated by an Indian customer service rep...no joke)


conclusion: Dell and Gateway are a fine choice for those that don't have technical know how, or those that don't want to learn anything new. Those companies offer a solution for the general public you just want to buy it and have it work.

However, the best bang for your buck comes not from those companies. By doing your own research into components, learning the terms and technical jargon, cutting through the marketing ploys and untruths, and deciding what YOU need, building your own machine is a very rewarding experience. You'll drop a little more money, but it will be money well spent.

There is a wealth of information on the internet and in magazines on how to build your own machine, you just have to look for it. Google is your friend.

[pdiggitydogg]

okokok
check out my amd setup (wow cheaper)

CPU: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80699-2
MotherBoard: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=241780
MemorySet: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=80092-16
HdCombo:http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...01206-1-316603
Video: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-413&depa=1
DVD: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=170624

(yes, I went down to agp...decided I dont need pci)

[AzCivic]

this is all very good info!!!!!!!!!!thanks!!

i have another question(don't know if i should start another thread, but it is related to all this): How does Alienware fit into all this?

[GT40FIED]

All the Alienware stuff I've ever seen has been gamer stuff. Good specs all around with great video cards and better RAM than most. They may build systems that are just for regular use, but all of the stuff I've seen has been for gaming.

[AzCivic]

they have alot of different systems now, check out their website. i built one and that crap came out to friggin 5500$!!

[blind34_1]

pdiggs, the amd setup looks good, at least as far as being compatible. the dvd burner you chose is the only thing i really have a problem with. Liteon is okay, i guess, but for that price, you may as well look at the top brands instead of secondary ones. Plextor, TDK, Sony, Pioneer, and even NEC (who actually makes most of the chips for those other brands) would be my first choices.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-236&depa=1

I use this burner and it is great so far. has detachable faces so if you are building with a black case, it will match.

and given the choice between true ATI and a third (unknown to me) party like Powercolor, I would take the ATI. I would also consider Sapphire's Atlantis line.


Okay, Alienware. They have long been known for making the best machines possible. Of course, you are going to pay for it.

this is actually an excellent graph (albeit from alienware), but still, they are right:
http://www.alienware.com/build_vs_buy_pages/index.aspx

On a side note, if I had to buy a laptop for whatever reason, it would be an alienware machine. Just because they make an outstanding product and they stand behind it, considering most other laptops suck. (only ibm would come close to alienware)

They use only high quality parts, and they are not proprietary, like the crap dell and gateway pull sometimes.

They also build using the bleeding edge parts, something else that dell and gateway do not do. They are using the best of best, some of which isn't even available on the common market. You can configure any machine to have insane specs: an extreme edition pentium 3.46 with 1066 fsb and 2.5 mb cache HOLY CRAP. 4gbs of 533mhz ram, holy crap again. they even offer the x850, which is just a symbol of excess. I think no where else you will find anybody offering this kind of hardware, already built to standards that they do.

Why would anyone order from them? Yes the price is nuts on most of their stuff, but if you are truly into gaming, or just want a high-end, high-dollar, high-quality pc, this is who you go to.

I still think that building your own machine is still more rewarding and there is nothing you can't do that they can. They just know A LOT more than you, and have the confidence of doing it perfectly.

I wouldn't mind having one of those machines in my room, but its just like buying an already modified car; its not yours, and it will never be yours. you didnt do the work.