.:HSTuners::

Racing Rice · 11-26-2001, 10:24 AM

Fmax claims that their Civic kit for the EX can produce 230 HP and 212 Ft-lbs of torque at 12psi, with these mods:

Stock Engine: Lower compression ratio via head gasket option, Stock Camshafts, Stock intake and exhaust porting. Stock pistons rods, rings and crank.
Bolt-on turbo system: Components listed on the Honda/Acura turbo systems page
Ignition timing: Stock initial timing with .2 degrees of retard per pound of boost
Boost level: 13-15 psi of boost
Fuel additive: None, 92 Octane

Other Mods:
AEM cam gears, 3" exhaust, after-market ceramic clutch and APEX'i AVC-R boost controller

96 Civic EX Dyno Chart

If this is true its pretty immpressive. Maybe there will be some hope for our little D16's...

11-26-2001, 05:33 PM

i think that those numbers are obtainable. i have seen a few guys getting 13s from just bolting on Greddy kit and then cranking the boost up a little.

Racing Rice · 11-27-2001, 08:11 AM

Thats cool.. But hopefully I wont have to mess with the SOHC if I can rid of my car, Im going to go with a B18B swap, and then either the Drag 3rd Gen, or the Fmax Kit...

If I can get rid of my car.. If not Ill just have to keep persueing the quest for more power from my SOHC..

Boosted... Just wondering... How much boost can you put into a B18B with a thicker head gasket (how thick of a head Gaket would you go?) and stock internals, aslong as you have good fuel and spark, and is tuned well?

11-27-2001, 12:27 PM

it might be obtainable but how long will it last with stock bottom end? Ive heard from a LOT of honda turbo's owners that 6psi is the most a honda engine can handle. there are soo many different engines, who knows though.

Racing Rice · 11-27-2001, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toykilla
it might be obtainable but how long will it last with stock bottom end? Ive heard from a LOT of honda turbo's owners that 6psi is the most a honda engine can handle. there are soo many different engines, who knows though.

Ill disagree.. You can do more then that with proper tuning and sufficient fuel and spark as long as you dont have detenation.. Dont forget about the thicker head gasket, that will drop compression and allow you to push more boost also.

11-27-2001, 02:02 PM

Definatley belivable. Doesn't F-Max use a T3/T4 hybrid? There are guys using the small as hell GReddy YD04 pushing 200whp @ only like 10-12psi, so 230whp with a T3/T4, no problem. As for how long it will last, that's another story. I had a couple friends with D16Z6's boosting 15+psi on the stock bottom end till one had his sleeves warp, and the other had a rod let go (in his motors defense, it has 145k miles!) Go with a good mild build:

Pistons & rings
Rods
ARP bolts and studs
balanced and polished crank w/ new bearings
block guard

You can now boost 15psi+ safley and eaily squeeze 250whp+ out of the D16. My intention is to do all of the above + Skunk2/Venom intake mani w/ 60mm B series TB, ported & polished head w/ 5 angle valve job, WeCams turbo cam and some tweaking with a Hondata or AEM EMS and seeing well over 300whp with an SFP built turbo setup (T3/T4 or T04E w/ .48 A/R)

Racing Rice · 11-27-2001, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VTC_CiViC
...My intention is to do all of the above + Skunk2/Venom intake mani w/ 60mm B series TB, ported & polished head w/ 5 angle valve job, WeCams turbo cam and some tweaking with a Hondata or AEM EMS and seeing well over 300whp with an SFP built turbo setup (T3/T4 or T04E w/ .48 A/R)

Very cool man...

11-27-2001, 05:09 PM

About the AEM EMS: How much will it be going for? Just curious.

11-28-2001, 11:33 AM

Preliminary puts it between $1300-1800 for the street PnP system. Still too early to tell though. If it's more than $1500 though, I'll probably stick to Hondata 4b, if not, AEM here I come!

11-28-2001, 03:35 PM

DAMN!! I didn't know that it would be that much!

what about that Greddy E-Manage piggy back system? How much do you think that will be going for?

thanks,

aj

11-29-2001, 10:44 AM

The E-manage is like $3-400 or so, but it's just a slightly more detailed version of the blue-box, just another pigyback, I want a true standalone.

11-29-2001, 09:08 PM

For engine management, I am looking for something in between a V-AFC and a Hondata stage 3b. Any suggestions?

you said your car is bone stock. So what do you have for upgraded fuel and spark?

thanks,

aj

11-30-2001, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Racing Rice

Ill disagree.. You can do more then that with proper tuning and sufficient fuel and spark as long as you dont have detenation.. Dont forget about the thicker head gasket, that will drop compression and allow you to push more boost also.

dropping your compression will allow you to up the boost, YES. I agree. but there is no way a stock bottom end can handle that...even with fuel and spark. Id have to see it to believe it.
come civics are just built better also, maybe they got a good one...=) heres an example for ya...www.2gnt.com some people on there have been running 9psi (stock bottom end) for a year or so with no problems while others blew their engine in 2-4months.

Racing Rice · 11-30-2001, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toykilla

dropping your compression will allow you to up the boost, YES. I agree. but there is no way a stock bottom end can handle that...even with fuel and spark. Id have to see it to believe it.
come civics are just built better also, maybe they got a good one...=) heres an example for ya...www.2gnt.com some people on there have been running 9psi (stock bottom end) for a year or so with no problems while others blew their engine in 2-4months.

That could have been caused by inproper tuning, different driving styles, or many other things. Ive seen lots of people boost over 6psi on stock internals for long periods of times in civics. It all boils down to engine condition and tuning, plain and simple.. Im not saying you can just throw something together and boost 10-12 lbs through a motor, thats just an ignorant thought... But If you take proper precautions and get everything tuned and make sure everythings in good order, you shouldnt have any problems boost 9-10 lbs (or maybe more) on stock internals with a decent, well thought out, well tuned, and well maintained setup. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that you arent right, Im just pointing out that its very possible to do.

12-03-2001, 02:41 PM

Know of a pair of guys with D16 hatchesm both pushed over 15psi on the stock D16Z6's for a while. One succome to rod knock (the motor had over 145k miles!), the other had the sleeves warp from excessive pressure for prelonged periods. The motor itself is stong, much stronger than many people give it credit for. I myself hit a spike of .89bar this Friday on my stock D16!! No a hitch if you have anough fuel and the right timing.

12-03-2001, 03:14 PM

I ran 22 psi all year with no problems and the only thing I ended up with is sponserships. We deal with Hondas everyday in the shop and nearly half of them have turbos. You can boost the hell out of them if you tune them correctly. Im not talking piggy back this and that. Im talking real tuning and proper setup. For all the DSM guys this is not just a Honda thing. We had a Galant VR4 in the shop the other month that was boosting 33 psi on the bone stock bottom end and running high 10s. Tune you car and you can boost the hell out of it. With a Honda id go to 15 before Id replace any internal parts.

Racing Rice · 12-03-2001, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boosted3g
I ran 22 psi all year with no problems and the only thing I ended up with is sponserships. We deal with Hondas everyday in the shop and nearly half of them have turbos. You can boost the hell out of them if you tune them correctly. Im not talking piggy back this and that. Im talking real tuning and proper setup. For all the DSM guys this is not just a Honda thing. We had a Galant VR4 in the shop the other month that was boosting 33 psi on the bone stock bottom end and running high 10s. Tune you car and you can boost the hell out of it. With a Honda id go to 15 before Id replace any internal parts.

Thanks boosted.. I was hoping youd jump in soon

Thats super impressive for the galant... What Type of setup was it running?

12-03-2001, 08:31 PM

upgraded turbo and intercooler, stock block and head. And I think he had DFI or some sort of standalone and an upgraded fuel system. With a 7.8:1 cr and an iron block you can boost all day long.

Racing Rice · 12-03-2001, 08:43 PM

Thanks boosted... Thatd be fun boosting that much... Hell itd be fun just having a turbo..

12-06-2001, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ajn
For engine management, I am looking for something in between a V-AFC and a Hondata stage 3b. Any suggestions?

you said your car is bone stock. So what do you have for upgraded fuel and spark?

thanks,

aj

Sup Ajn. I would definitely go with a HOndata. And also if you have the hondata then you don't need the v-afc. Never ever ever ever understimate the power of a dyno tune. A properly tuned car will not only perform better but will last you longer too.

12-06-2001, 10:07 PM

Hey Clowny,

I am pretty sure that I will go Hondata. I just don't know whether or not I want the 2b or 3b. I know I could never afford 4b. I just know that I will need the following items before installing hondata:

Hondata 2b or 3b $645 or $790
RC engineering 440 cc/min injectors $300
OBD I ECU $150
ECU adapter cable $250
AEM adjustable fuel pressure reg. $200

That's a lot of money. I won't be getting it for a while but it is next on my list of mods.

thanks,

aj

12-06-2001, 10:10 PM

You wont need the 4b, all you need is the HOndata 3b. The only difference between the 4b and the 3b is that the 4b comes with data logging capabiliites which is only good if you know how to tune your car and to do that you'll need a dyno machine. So all you need is the 3b. I would definitely go with the 3b instead of the 2b. Also you'll need the 440 injectors. Damn! that sucks if you have to buy a new ecu and a harness. In that case you might as well get a DFI or something else since the price will be closer.

12-06-2001, 10:13 PM

What is a DFI?

Is that a different type of engine management?

thanks,

aj

12-06-2001, 10:30 PM

Yeah it is. I have heard nothin but good things about DFI as well as the HOndata. But the thing about the hondata is that the price is cheap but if you have to spend the extra cash to get the ecu and the harness you might as well as get DFI. I think DFI is still better. But i think the best Standalone FuEl management is MOtec but that sucker costs around 4000. Yups.

DRAG Boosted Si · 12-07-2001, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boosted3g
upgraded turbo and intercooler, stock block and head. And I think he had DFI or some sort of standalone and an upgraded fuel system. With a 7.8:1 cr and an iron block you can boost all day long.

thats insanely low

12-08-2001, 07:29 AM

yeah man thats what the come with stock. Have you ever driven in one with a bad turbo. They are terds on wheels, you could run faster than it.

11-26-2001, 10:24 AM	#1
Racing Rice Project Combat Honda Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Highland,OH Age: 45 Posts: 7,985	230 HP on stock D16?!?!?! Fmax claims that their Civic kit for the EX can produce 230 HP and 212 Ft-lbs of torque at 12psi, with these mods: Stock Engine: Lower compression ratio via head gasket option, Stock Camshafts, Stock intake and exhaust porting. Stock pistons rods, rings and crank. Bolt-on turbo system: Components listed on the Honda/Acura turbo systems page Ignition timing: Stock initial timing with .2 degrees of retard per pound of boost Boost level: 13-15 psi of boost Fuel additive: None, 92 Octane Other Mods: AEM cam gears, 3" exhaust, after-market ceramic clutch and APEX'i AVC-R boost controller 96 Civic EX Dyno Chart If this is true its pretty immpressive. Maybe there will be some hope for our little D16's... __________________ Racing Rice

11-27-2001, 08:11 AM	#3
Racing Rice Project Combat Honda Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Highland,OH Age: 45 Posts: 7,985	Thats cool.. But hopefully I wont have to mess with the SOHC if I can rid of my car, Im going to go with a B18B swap, and then either the Drag 3rd Gen, or the Fmax Kit... If I can get rid of my car.. If not Ill just have to keep persueing the quest for more power from my SOHC.. Boosted... Just wondering... How much boost can you put into a B18B with a thicker head gasket (how thick of a head Gaket would you go?) and stock internals, aslong as you have good fuel and spark, and is tuned well? __________________ Racing Rice

12-03-2001, 08:43 PM	#19
Racing Rice Project Combat Honda Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Highland,OH Age: 45 Posts: 7,985	Thanks boosted... Thatd be fun boosting that much... Hell itd be fun just having a turbo.. __________________ Racing Rice

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11-26-2001, 05:33 PM	#2
Boosted3g Posts: n/a	i think that those numbers are obtainable. i have seen a few guys getting 13s from just bolting on Greddy kit and then cranking the boost up a little.

11-27-2001, 12:27 PM	#4
toykilla Posts: n/a	it might be obtainable but how long will it last with stock bottom end? Ive heard from a LOT of honda turbo's owners that 6psi is the most a honda engine can handle. there are soo many different engines, who knows though.

11-27-2001, 02:02 PM	#6
VTC_CiViC Posts: n/a	Definatley belivable. Doesn't F-Max use a T3/T4 hybrid? There are guys using the small as hell GReddy YD04 pushing 200whp @ only like 10-12psi, so 230whp with a T3/T4, no problem. As for how long it will last, that's another story. I had a couple friends with D16Z6's boosting 15+psi on the stock bottom end till one had his sleeves warp, and the other had a rod let go (in his motors defense, it has 145k miles!) Go with a good mild build: Pistons & rings Rods ARP bolts and studs balanced and polished crank w/ new bearings block guard You can now boost 15psi+ safley and eaily squeeze 250whp+ out of the D16. My intention is to do all of the above + Skunk2/Venom intake mani w/ 60mm B series TB, ported & polished head w/ 5 angle valve job, WeCams turbo cam and some tweaking with a Hondata or AEM EMS and seeing well over 300whp with an SFP built turbo setup (T3/T4 or T04E w/ .48 A/R)

11-27-2001, 05:09 PM	#8
ajn Posts: n/a	About the AEM EMS: How much will it be going for? Just curious.

11-28-2001, 11:33 AM	#9
VTC_CiViC Posts: n/a	Preliminary puts it between $1300-1800 for the street PnP system. Still too early to tell though. If it's more than $1500 though, I'll probably stick to Hondata 4b, if not, AEM here I come!

11-28-2001, 03:35 PM	#10
ajn Posts: n/a	DAMN!! I didn't know that it would be that much! what about that Greddy E-Manage piggy back system? How much do you think that will be going for? thanks, aj

11-29-2001, 10:44 AM	#11
VTC_CiViC Posts: n/a	The E-manage is like $3-400 or so, but it's just a slightly more detailed version of the blue-box, just another pigyback, I want a true standalone.

11-29-2001, 09:08 PM	#12
ajn Posts: n/a	For engine management, I am looking for something in between a V-AFC and a Hondata stage 3b. Any suggestions? you said your car is bone stock. So what do you have for upgraded fuel and spark? thanks, aj

12-03-2001, 02:41 PM	#15
VTC_CiViC Posts: n/a	Know of a pair of guys with D16 hatchesm both pushed over 15psi on the stock D16Z6's for a while. One succome to rod knock (the motor had over 145k miles!), the other had the sleeves warp from excessive pressure for prelonged periods. The motor itself is stong, much stronger than many people give it credit for. I myself hit a spike of .89bar this Friday on my stock D16!! No a hitch if you have anough fuel and the right timing.

12-03-2001, 03:14 PM	#16
Boosted3g Posts: n/a	I ran 22 psi all year with no problems and the only thing I ended up with is sponserships. We deal with Hondas everyday in the shop and nearly half of them have turbos. You can boost the hell out of them if you tune them correctly. Im not talking piggy back this and that. Im talking real tuning and proper setup. For all the DSM guys this is not just a Honda thing. We had a Galant VR4 in the shop the other month that was boosting 33 psi on the bone stock bottom end and running high 10s. Tune you car and you can boost the hell out of it. With a Honda id go to 15 before Id replace any internal parts.

12-03-2001, 08:31 PM	#18
Boosted3g Posts: n/a	upgraded turbo and intercooler, stock block and head. And I think he had DFI or some sort of standalone and an upgraded fuel system. With a 7.8:1 cr and an iron block you can boost all day long.

12-06-2001, 10:07 PM	#21
ajn Posts: n/a	Hey Clowny, I am pretty sure that I will go Hondata. I just don't know whether or not I want the 2b or 3b. I know I could never afford 4b. I just know that I will need the following items before installing hondata: Hondata 2b or 3b $645 or $790 RC engineering 440 cc/min injectors $300 OBD I ECU $150 ECU adapter cable $250 AEM adjustable fuel pressure reg. $200 That's a lot of money. I won't be getting it for a while but it is next on my list of mods. thanks, aj

12-06-2001, 10:10 PM	#22
MrCLoWnY Posts: n/a	You wont need the 4b, all you need is the HOndata 3b. The only difference between the 4b and the 3b is that the 4b comes with data logging capabiliites which is only good if you know how to tune your car and to do that you'll need a dyno machine. So all you need is the 3b. I would definitely go with the 3b instead of the 2b. Also you'll need the 440 injectors. Damn! that sucks if you have to buy a new ecu and a harness. In that case you might as well get a DFI or something else since the price will be closer.

12-06-2001, 10:13 PM	#23
ajn Posts: n/a	What is a DFI? Is that a different type of engine management? thanks, aj

12-06-2001, 10:30 PM	#24
MrCLoWnY Posts: n/a	Yeah it is. I have heard nothin but good things about DFI as well as the HOndata. But the thing about the hondata is that the price is cheap but if you have to spend the extra cash to get the ecu and the harness you might as well as get DFI. I think DFI is still better. But i think the best Standalone FuEl management is MOtec but that sucker costs around 4000. Yups.

12-08-2001, 07:29 AM	#26
Boosted3g Posts: n/a	yeah man thats what the come with stock. Have you ever driven in one with a bad turbo. They are terds on wheels, you could run faster than it.