450cc injectors in a B16a

[Si-R CRX]

I have a 91 CRX with a b16a swap. I am tryingto put the talon Tsi 450cc injectors in it but it doesn't work right. I have heard alot about putting the 450cc's in because they are cheaper and have the same duty cycle as more expensive companies. When I put them in idle was a little rough as I had expected but when I went to drive it and hit about 2000rpm it just hesitated until i let off the gas. I have tried using both the mitsu resistor box and the honda but same result. What else do I need to do. Is this just a simple ecu reprogram problem? Any help would be appreciated.

[JDMFantasy2k]

you realize that even if you put those injectors in with a resistor box that your car won't run, (or will run like complete ass) right?

you need to something to control the ammount of fuel flow, (like a chipped ECU or a fuel controller).

I assume you're getting ready for a turbo setup. Go get an apexi vafc and then take out shit loads of fuel and it'll run better.

[pdiggitydogg]

Right. Are you using any sort of management with this, like an AFC?
Use one of those, in conjunction with the honda resistor box (see the step-by-step section for a great how-to [I think its still there])

[Si-R CRX]

Yeah I have a chipped ecu but I didn't know that you need to have a vafc. I was going to get the ecu reprogrammed but a vafc would prolly work better. And I'm not doing turbo quite yet but I think I have a bad injector so I figure I should go ahead and get bigger because you can always turn the fuel down but you cant turn it up past what the duty cycle is. Plus the DSM 450cc's are far cheaper than RC or the other company's Thanks alot for the quick response much better than Honda forums.

[pdiggitydogg]

chipped like hondata or one of those "mugen" programs?
If you dont run the resistor box, youre going to kill your ecu

[Si-R CRX]

its the skunk2 program not hondata. And should I run the mitsu resistor box or the honda? And I am going to get a vafc before I reinstall them. Is the apexi vafc hard to use?

[pdiggitydogg]

the chip probably isnt doing anything but making you use more fuel and changing the vtec point
Use the honda unit

[Si-R CRX]

Ok so should I get a vafc?? Will it correct the major hesitation & idle problem? And my vtec is set @ 5500rpm.

[thermal]

I just received your PM. Welcome to the site.

First thing is first.

1) It is not advisable to run this kind of set-up if you are not turbo yet. Bigger injectors does not mean yielding more power nor better. This is going to run it so rich that you will bog almost on every RPM band..... even if you slow it down with the AFC. Yes you will see an improvement from the initial set-up but by any means, not necessarily better. Leaning out the DSM 450cc's via an AFC also directly advances your timing. You cannot individually control timing on AFC. The fuel map set-point on it equates to timing table dialing.

If you search the web, you will see that many people doesnt like this set-up cuz of the "part throttle issue" but it is decent with extra volume of air via force induction. The reason for that is, obvious, extra fuel and extra air compensates..... BUT timing suffers.

2) You have a 91 CRX which means that you already have a resistor box. You just have to tap it to that. How is that done? I dont know but go to www.homemadeturbo.com and search there.

3) about your PM question, now I understand basically what you were asking me. The answer is YES. Even if you are at WOT your motor will still suffer significantly since TPS is an input to fuel mapping.

I strongly advice to put stock injectors back on. If you think the ones you have bad, then get another set. You are better off with stock. Save those DSM 450cc's later.

One thing you have to keep in mind, even if you get an AFC to control the DSM's, who knows what the fuel map is on that "chipped" ECU. Just saying that it has a Skunk2 program is irrelevant. There are many so-called "Skunk2" program out there.

Goodluck

Do not "hack" the injectors without boost please. You might just damage your motor......

[Si-R CRX]

Thanks alot for all the help. I guess I will just wait a bit until like you said get a turbo. Thanks again. I cant believe I got all this help so fast!

[thermal]

Not a problem. Goodluck with the project mang. Frequent our site. This site is like a family of only a few people. We actually get along here for the most part.....

[JDMFantasy2k]

ok if you have (or plan on getting a chipped ecu) then keep you injectors stock for now. Change out to the 450's when you turbo. You could essentially run them with the chipped ecu but you'll have to take out so much fuel it'd be retarded. (think 450's are almost twice the size of stockers)

So go to www.tunertoys.com and get yourself a set of 450's like i did. Craig runs the joint and you can look him up on homemade turbo as well. Register at homemade turbo because a lot of places give disocunts to HMT members. The injectors are good because they're warranty'd. I know some people got a bad batch before they changed the manufacturer and craig replaced all of them without a problem, plus they're cheap, and i run them

once you get the turbo on, i assume you'll be tuning with crome or uberdata. Basicall you need to find a stock map of your car, modify the map to include boost tables (to whatever pressure you will use). Then you need to scale the whole map to 450CC injectors and adjust the fuel pressure on the map if applicable (although that should be stock). Congratulations you just made a basemap. Now hook up the wideband and/or EGT and get tuning!