.:HSTuners::::Hondas Wanted:: |
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#1 | ||
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Bars, Bars, Bars
There are many debates on whether strut braces (pictured below)
![]() (comptech sport) actually do any thing to a vehicles handling, or help in balancing suspension components. Well you know the claims Quote:
Take a look at these ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Ok now that you have visuals, lets explain. The way suspension travels should be of no mystery to anyone. You have a shock or strut connected to a tower mated to a coil spring, connecting to a control arm etc. What happens when you hit a bump? The shocks/springs compress and rebound, putting stress on the shock towers, and under hard manuvers the frame may flex. So what is the obvious way to keep the frame from twisting, build a support beam from tower to tower. The frame needs to twist a bit, that is what it does. So why the need for a bar. Well see if you meet the criteria. Strut bars are a good modification for the following people 1.)You have your vehicle lowered more than 1" 2.)You have sport springs or shocks 3.)have a tire profile of 45 or below It is a good mod for those who have changed other suspension components that can effect the way the car handles. Strut bars are not proven to provide any better lateral grip usually, but if your goal is to stiffen a frame that has has one of those 3 items done to cause more stress on it, then it may be worth your while. Stay away from bars with pivot points as pointed out above, they are virtually worthless, but cheap. Bars to look at: Nuespeed Comptech Sport Mugen Sprint Finally, adding those bars is a small piece in the puzzle, but, it is a piece. Everything is working against keeping the tires glued to the ground. Strut braces if anything aid in keeping the tires planted or help them form being unglued in extreme cornering situations, or turboulent road conditions. Keeping the frame stiff, is the goal, a cheap way to do it is a strut bar, one w/o pivot points. Tie Bars are a similar addition ![]() ![]() The lower tie bar increases the strength of the subframe, and is manditory with sway bars over 19mm in thickness, primarily in Hondas, where the subframe, specifically the rear, is notorious for pull aways and tears. Most manufacturors are designing their sway bars to come with the complemented Lower tie bar, mainly, because, in Neuspeeds case, the sway bars were tearing the subframe from the welds. These cases caused companies like Neupeed to look at their products, and redesign them (brackets, assemblies etc) to work better with the stock frame. What the end user gets is something that Honda did not intend, a , more rigid frame, more suitable for fine tuning their already great suspension. The tie bar is not a modification that is really felt. It is yet another small piece in the suspension tuning process. Alone a tie bar is not really going to do anything, IMO, except maybe stabilize the pick up points, at higher speed manuvers, will you notice it, I'd say not. But when combined with the sway bars, they work wonderfully together, especially when mated to an adjustable shock spring combo that has been corner weighted. For sway bars I am going to take a post from Texan whom I respect, and admire his knowledge, and in many regards should have my job here. ![]() Quote:
Thanks to Texan and BDC. Any questions? |
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#2 |
Insomniac Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: OR
Age: 43
Posts: 11,142
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Excellent post Dezoris. I just learned so much. Now I'll have to re-read it to pick up things I missed.
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#3 |
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gee i think u summed that up pretty well i learned alot but that was long very very long like a 1/4 mile
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#4 | |
Zoom-Zoom
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,924
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![]() Well written. I think people will understand that there is more to a suspension than just buying struts, springs & bars. Its all about matching them up correctly. otherwise you could end with a car that handles worse than before.
Well Done.
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#5 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Kentucky
Age: 43
Posts: 1,427
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Dez - Your articles are great. Always so much to pick up from them. Great job!
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#6 | |
Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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Quote:
Actually i have a rear lower tiebar. that's the only bar left on my car besides stock. i really don't have a sway bar since my car is an LX but i notice a difference in the way the car corners. Steering is much more responsive and i can make better turns. That is the only mod that i done to my car so far. Still riding on 14" rims with a 70 profile, and it isn't lowered. All i can say the tiebvar makes a huge differnce for me. About the strutbar i think they are crap. I had them on and took them off. i'll put them again after i get a new suspension setup and see the difference.
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#7 |
Project Combat Honda
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Highland,OH
Age: 45
Posts: 7,985
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Swaybar Info for 6th gen civics
Heres a list of Swaybars that I looked at when I was going to get mine.
Suspension Techniques: Requires drilling and may want to get some custom made piece to fit on the subframe for some added strength. I think this one was a 19mm bar. I didnt like the way it mounted at all. Nuespeed: Very decent bar. Mounting hardware probably a little better then the Skunk2 (maybe) Nuespeed makes great products, but you pay for them. This is a 19mm bar. Type R: Not a bad bar if you dont mind pieceing it together from honda. Requires drilling and some reinforcements pieces made for the installation. You will also need SI endlinks from honda as well. I almost went this way, but I figured Id miss a part or 2 that I needed. This is a 22mm bar. Progress Tech: I didnt look into progressive to much. So I cant really tell you much about them. It is a 22mm bar also. Skunk2: This is the bar I went with. It came with everything needed to install. Bolted right up. Came with frame reinforcement plates. I only paid $153 shipped. Its a 21mm swaybar. SI Swaybar: I looked at this bar but it was a little to small for my taste. You will probably still have a good amount of understeer on a EX since it has a 22mm front swaybar stock. Youll have to get all the pieces from honda but everything will bolt up to a 6th Gen civic. This bar is 13mm. There are other bars out there too. But these were the main ones I looked a little at.
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Racing Rice |
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#8 |
Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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can we say Sticky ?
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, FL
Age: 42
Posts: 3,195
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Sticky
![]() good post RR. |
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#10 |
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I've got a 97 Civic HX and want to improve the handling/steering responsiveness. It seems like adding a rear sway bar would help a lot based on what I've read in this thread. But I'm not sure whether to go with a stock SI sway bar or get a 3rd party bar.
Any advice? I'm also not sure how I'd go about matching front and rear? Does the HX have a front sway bar? |
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#11 |
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The better STB would be a triangulated design. Driver side ST, Passenger ST, and firewall. The radiator support would work too. That's if you have enough room.
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#12 |
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About the strutbar i think they are crap. I had them on and took them off. i'll put them again after i get a new suspension setup and see the difference. [/b][/quote]
I am totally confused about your answer. First, you should understand that strut bar and tie bar is the same thing. So, when you say, that you think tie bars are great and then, you say, strut bars are crap, you make no sense. Drumboy69 |
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#13 | |
Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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Quote:
I am totally confused about your answer. First, you should understand that strut bar and tie bar is the same thing. So, when you say, that you think tie bars are great and then, you say, strut bars are crap, you make no sense. Drumboy69 [/b][/quote] the ebay ones are crap. i had them and removed them. i got a neuspeed one for the front. it's soo much better. I can really feel a difference with it.
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#14 |
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well, anyway.... i got a neuspeed front upper strut bar as well. i like it, but can't really feel a difference. i had an APC one prior to that which was purely cosmetic...
anyway, what do you mean ebay ones are crap? will all due respect, dude, you are a moderator, grow up. ebay is not a brand. you can buy neuspeed stuff on ebay, you know... drumboy69 |
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#15 |
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Ok...how many parts are there with struts? I see there is a sway bar...and the strut bar...strut brace...
So if somebody says..."your struts are bad"...what is it that I am replacing? Now if my car is lowered...do I need to get a sway bar?? What is it that I need if I lower my Honda? I know that right now, if I drive my car and I have 3 or 4 people in my car and I have to turn, my Honda will rock from one side to the other depending on which way I turn the wheel....is that due to bad struts? ![]() |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kenosha, WI
Age: 38
Posts: 334
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lean on the back end of your car on one side of it right above the wheel and jump off of it quickly. if the car comes straight up and doesnt rock up and down, you should be good with the suspension. but if it rocks up and down, the suspension could be pretty much shot. thats what it sounds like because of what you said with your friends.
now how low do you want to be dropped? it all depends on how low you want, how stiff you want the ride to be and if you care or not about your front bumper scraping every once ina while to forfeit it for looks and handling. Do you just want a cheap setup but still be good? Just want struts and springs or a whole coilover setup? A good strut spring setup would be KYB AGX and eibach pro-kit or else if you want a little lower, eibach sportlines.look here to compare http://www.eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos...57387000017632 Ive also heard good things about ground control, friend has it on rsx-s and another on gsr. they both ride pretty good, but may be too stiff for some. Now if you want the whole suspension coilover setup it will cost a little more, but you get what you pay for. Tein is a good company for these.theres also skunk2, tanabe, jic-magic, hks, apexi and a few others. it all comes down to what you want.
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#17 | |
Repost Wagon
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: over here
Age: 44
Posts: 17,266
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Quote:
get on aim with me and i will tell you a lot about suspension.
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