Building up a sohc d16 on a 98 civic ex

Anyone got a web page that would help or some advice?

[Whtehnda93DXSdn]

well not sure of as build up page but it;s really going to depend on what you want and are going to do.

I mena you can lok to build up the engine itself..Rods/Pistons/rings/retainers/Camshaft/Cam gears Port and Polish it..throttle body all this would help to make the engine stronger and want to EAT up the pavement.

also in doing the internal build up that will help if you plan to go w/ a Turbo r something along those lines...

Hope this might help a little....

[Fatal070]

Im doing a similar build up mines a 99 sohc but im thinking of gettng a INTEGRA type R ENIGINE 4300$

I'm doing a similar build , it's going into a 92 dx. I'm going turbo , you have to do everthing Whtehndadx said except for the cam gears. But it all depends on what kind of power you want and what your bank book looks like.

Will I still be able to make my car fast with it being an auto?

it can be quick but not as fast or as fun as a manual.

Fatal070-- how do you like havin the exhaust and the intake on your civic??? I have a 2000 civic and I am trying to decide on how I want to build it up. I was looking into the ITR motor but thats a lot of cash now I am lookin at the LS block or just a Si block. Write me some time and tell me your Ideas!! Always lookin for more

You won't see much gains until you work on the internals. But of course, you won't see much gains with the internals until you have worked on the basic external bolt ons, i.e. exhaust and intake. After you work on those, do the underdrive crank pulley, the assessory pulleys(over-drive)Pulleys, cam gear, fuel rail, larger injectors, fuel pressure regulator, ignitions system(MSD SCI), Fields or Apexi AFC. Once you get all of that stuff, move into the internals. Of course you will need to port and polish the head, do a good job on matching the ports for the intake and the exhaust as this will free up some power! This will then take full advantage of what you just modified on the outside! Crowler makes an awesome cam shaft that has more of an agressive lobe than the OEM. This alone will gaurantee you 15HP/torque because of that . You can also get a higher compression into you combustion chamber by using a thinner copper head gasket. Do this only if you do not intend on force-inducting it anytime soon. As you will want to lower the compression if you do that!! You will gaurantee yourself some gains with that, but you need to balance out the A/F and timing or you will be detonating, and THAT IS BAD! With the cam shaft in place you are going to need Titanium retainer/springs or your risking floating springs and this is also bad! VERY BAD! You can kiss your valves goodby! :o Then there is the block. The only thing you can do to the block is sleeve it and blueprint it! As that is very expensive and you might as well have bought a B16 or B18 if you do this! THe sleeving is for the forced-induction and preventing the cylinder walls from vibrating and destoying themselves as well as the bottom end. You can also get the crank lightened, but then you are going into a delecate area! The transmission should not be ignored as this is the thing that contacts the wheels to the engine! You have to upgrade the clutch. Your OEM clutch is made to withstand moderate drivers and it is built to withstand low pressures. A stage 2 in any application is recommended if you are street driving and take the car to the grocery store a lot. Stage 3 clutches are intense and require you to pay attention all the time or you will be stalling or hitting the person in front of you at a stop. Kinda like you forget your car is in gear when you start it and you realease the clutch, then it jerks and jumps away from you. YEAH, That way! A lightened flywheel will release a lot of rotational mass and turn it into POWER! YES, you need this too! You might as well if you have the tranny apart already, right?

I strongly suggest you take your time and get the right parts the first time. Cheap parts/deals will only hurt you in the long run and won't prove to be much of a deal! Stick with brands that you know and can trust. But all in all, OEM is the most dependable of all parts. Hope this helps!

[pdiggitydogg]

good god thats a big reply

[nonovurbizniz]

ya and terrible advice unless your bill friggin gates and don't want to go very fast in the end.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
ya and terrible advice unless your bill friggin gates and don't want to go very fast in the end.

I agree with this statement.

If you want to make alot of power and you have about $6000-7000 you can dump into your motor, I suggest a nice turbo build.

Though a swap is a nice bang for the buck, I always liked saving the money on a swap and working the SOHC to take abuse. I mean, you already have the motor so take it out and get it done. Get some iorn sleeves, some nice JE low compression pistons, metal head gasket, crower rods, crower turbo camshaft, titanium valves, springs and retainers, mild port and polish, a new intake manifold (skunk 2 or something along the lines of that), overbored throttle body, piece together a turbo kit and get yourself a Hondata standalone. With this done at 15psi you should be somewhere near if not at the 300hp mark and more power is possible (given the turbo you choose is large enough to make more power) with some more boost and more tuning.

This is being that you can do most of the work yourself, cause if you can't that price of $6000-7000 goes to over $10,000 easy.

Wow, I just saw that you said your car is an auto, though not impossible you can still have all the work I listed above done but with a stock tranny the car won't last a trip around the block. Honda auto tranny's can take some abuse but once you start adding power, the life of the tranny is dramatically decreased. Do not be discouraged though, your friends at Level 10 can help you with that. They can build you an auto tranny that can take the abuse from power you will be making with the turbo althought it comes with a niffty price tag. It will cost you (given that your tranny is in good working condition) anywhere from $1,500 and up to make your tranny. I can vouch for them as I have a friend who had one of their trannys in his car (you'll find out why I said had in a minute) and it was nothing but spectacular. He had the tranny in the car for a total of 4 years and the reason why he doesn't have it anymore is not cause the tranny broke it's because he had an accident with the car and then after 1 1/2 years of being boosted on at 16psi from a T3-T4 hybrid the motor gave way. The turbo went on the car when the car had 60,000 miles and when the motor gave way it had just a touch over 100,000 miles. This car was his daily driver which he used to put 100+ miles on the car a day and the tranny was just as good as the day he got it back till the day of his cars death. When the car died he had removed the tranny and sold it. From the last I heard from the new owner the tranny is still going strong.

So basically, it all comes down to how far you are willing to go and how much you are willing to spend to get there.

Originally posted by nonovurbizniz
ya and terrible advice unless your bill friggin gates and don't want to go very fast in the end.

First of all, noone said you had to do everything in one shot. Who does that anyways unless you are a speed shop and have nothing better to do!? Or you are rich kid with parents who buy you anything you want! Wait a minute, you said it yourself. Bill friggin Gates. Maybe he can lend you the money! For the average DIY, this sort of build up will take time and money! Noone said it would be cheap, and I certainly know that with owning my own performance parts company for 2 years. That is why I said to get a swap. But not everyone has $1500-$3500 to burn up front, so "Take your time!" with your currnet setup...... As I stated to those who could read english!

And NO, you will not be slow with these mods! For an SOHC NA, you will be Damn fast! 300 HP is possible but not realistic unless you do everything you can do to this engine for NA and do not plan on passing CARB and emissions and have the deep pockets to do it. Turbo would become a factor if you wanted to go forced induction, then you have more money out of your pocketbook! Hey wait a minute, maybe Bill Gates can lend you the money again! Also, Keep in mind too, this engine weighs significantly less than the DOHC engines, so you are saving there! With any Honda engine you can use that extra edge! Honda engines are notorious for coming out of the factory with virtually no torque! And without that, Horse Power means NOTHING! Try going up a hill without torque, you can't! Gravity takes it's toll VERY FAST and you cannot avoid the physics in the matter. The more weight you are carrying, the slower you will go, no matter how much power you have. It effects everyone! Not to say you would beat a B16 in the same car and weight as yours if you did nothing to your engine! There would be no contest at that point!:o There is no replacement for displacement! AS ANY SAVY ENIGNE BUILDER WILL TELL YOU! The only thing Honda has on it's side is the technology. VTEC!!

All in all, there is so many routes you can go and it will be a learning process. You can take all the advice in the world and throw out the window if you have not learned anything from the experience! Nevermind the naive and slanderish remarks by those on this forum trying to slash my comments! Which ultimately told you the same thing that I did! Only you can decide what best fits your interests and invlovement in this! The best of luck to yoU!

Wow I don't even know where to start on this, let's try here....

Originally posted by civicshark94
"Take your time!" with your currnet setup...... As I stated to those who could read english! and NO, you will not be slow with these mods! For an SOHC NA, you will be Damn fast![/b]

Why would you advise an all motor set-up on a SOHC motor? Yes, there is power to be made with some N/A tuning but how far do you think that you can get with a D16Y8 and keep it within emissions? If you can make it to the power of a D16 with the basic GReddy kit on it, that would be a great accomplishment. As for the car being damn fast, I don't think so. It would be quick, but not fast.

Originally posted by civicshark94
Also, Keep in mind too, this engine weighs significantly less than the DOHC engines, so you are saving there! With any Honda engine you can use that extra edge! Honda engines are notorious for coming out of the factory with virtually no torque! And without that, Horse Power means NOTHING! Try going up a hill without torque, you can't! Gravity takes it's toll VERY FAST and you cannot avoid the physics in the matter. The more weight you are carrying, the slower you will go, no matter how much power you have. It effects everyone![/b]

This I dont understand so well, what are you saving from using a D16 over a B16? Is it the hundred pounds you save using a D16? Yes I have to agree that Honda engines are pretty torqueless but how can you say Horsepower means nothing? What makes a 99 Si almost 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than a 99 EX? Oh wait I got it...it's the weight right? Oh no, the Si is heavier...ok ok I got it.....it's 4 extra ft lbs of torque right?

Originally posted by civicshark94
There is no replacement for displacement! AS ANY SAVY ENIGNE BUILDER WILL TELL YOU![/b]

Yes there is a replacement, it's called a turbocharger.

Why would you advise an all motor set-up on a SOHC motor? Yes, there is power to be made with some N/A tuning but how far do you think that you can get with a D16Y8 and keep it within emissions? If you can make it to the power of a D16 with the basic GReddy kit on it, that would be a great accomplishment. As for the car being damn fast, I don't think so. It would be quick, but not fast.

I have already addressed these comments earlier in this thread! Just read.

First of all, money issues. Friend, you are reading between the lines and not the whole picture! You act like I am telling him not to get a swap or turbo application or something. You are also acting like that what I am telling him is dead wrong! If this guy is money deficiant, and I am going strickly by presumption as every post does one here does about those asking questions, he can throw $100 there and another there, and another here without breaking your bank all at once! Provided that he does the work himself of course! I agree with you that buying a swap is better in terms of investment, but as I stated not everyone has the money. Oh Yeah as someone intially commented on my post, "unless he is Bill Friggin Gates". RIGHT!!!!!! We have already established that I agree with that! Heck, I import these damn engines, I know! Bust this guy was not asking about swaps, he is working with his current setup!

On the other side, I have been working on my SOHC for Three years now as I have not always owned the company. I can tell you this with my current setup, and it is still within CO emissions, that I compete very well with SOME B16 and B18 swaps and it started as a D15 NON Vtec! And I do not force induct! In addition, I do all the work myself, so I have not spent $7K like someone stated it would cost. Next step for me would be Turbo, but I am just going to go farther than that and get an H23A Vtec Swap which has much more power potential than any other Honda engine out there right now as Stephan Papadakis would tell you! This is what he has in his AEM Civic. Would you want to go against him? LOL

In the meantime, there is something about being NA that makes you smile to know that your car is faster than others without the help of the forced air or the No2. So unless you have done it yourself with this same application, I suggest you leave the comments to those who have. You should not go 100% by the experience or comments of others. If Honda did that, Vtec would not exist! But as I learn all the time, no matter how fast you feel you are, there are so many more out there who are faster, as those with the Turbos as 15 psi+. But BRING on the NA's!!!!

This I dont understand so well, what are you saving from using a D16 over a B16? Is it the hundred pounds you save using a D16? Yes I have to agree that Honda engines are pretty torqueless but how can you say Horsepower means nothing? What makes a 99 Si almost 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than a 99 EX? Oh wait I got it...it's the weight right? Oh no, the Si is heavier...ok ok I got it.....it's 4 extra ft lbs of torque right?

LOL, I don't where you are ranting and ravving here! First of all, Horsepower needs the torque to move. That is the science in the engines! In any engine!!!!! Honda compromises the torque for the extra horses because of economy. This is why V8s suck up gas so fast!! Read that in any motorsports manual/magazine! As when you do mods. If you are going for strickly HP and not torque and you have a damn heavy car, you aint going nowhere fast! You have to find the fine line between the two.

Look at in terms of cars. The 95+ Nissan 200SX Se-r has mega loads of torque. It is equipted with the SR20DE engine which makes it a 2.0 of 1900+ cc of displacement, it is also a DOHC. I beleive the car weighs about 3200 lbs if I remember correctly. Basically, with very little done to it. It can go FAST! My business partner owns one, so that is why I am using that as an example. The car from stock starts at 140 hp @ 6,400 rpm 132 ft-lbs @ 4,800 rpm. The only engine that comes close to the Sr20de in terms of the displacement and horsepower other than the B20 is the B18 (you should already know the specifications of this Einstein). Put that into a Civic because the weight of the 200SX and The Civic are pretty close. <u>Without the Vtec</u> on the Hondas side there would be no chance for the Honda to catch up to the 200Sx for one, torque is what gets you off the line quicker. Two, the little Honda does not have the Vtec to help, we have eliminated that for this example because Nissan does not have the Vtec!! The se-r stats are 0-60 MPH: 7.13 sec. 1/4 mile: 15.6 sec. @ 91 MPH. How many of you know what the Honda will do without the Vtec on a B18 B16 or B20?!?! 17 seconds and slower! But of course that depends on your altitude, not attitude! I live in CO, so that automatically makes you 1 second slower!

I will use my car as an example on this one. Before any mods and on my non-vtec D15B7 base model, I was lucky to reach 60 mph in 12 seconds. . LOL, I know, that is damn slow! I have improved that a lot by what I have added to the car all listed in my signature below, by improving that to approx 6.5 seconds all done in NA. I have not taken my car out to the track yet as I need a new clutch, but I am sure it will improve more once I upgrade that. Sorry, can't provide any E.t.a.

Yes there is a replacement, it's called a turbocharger. [/b]

LOL, I can't disagree with you on that one, but we are talking about money issues here. If the guy has enough money to buy a turbo setup, he would have had enough money to by a swap in the first place, right? Then he would not had asked what to do on the D16. That's my point! Of course the guy who originally started this thread has yet to comment to what his position is, so enough bickering and see what this guy wants to do and what his pocketbook says! I'm done arguing! I have no more torque. LOL

Originally posted by Almighty-Si



This I dont understand so well, what are you saving from using a D16 over a B16? Is it the hundred pounds you save using a D16? Yes I have to agree that Honda engines are pretty torqueless but how can you say Horsepower means nothing? What makes a 99 Si almost 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile than a 99 EX? Oh wait I got it...it's the weight right? Oh no, the Si is heavier...ok ok I got it.....it's 4 extra ft lbs of torque right?

I realized I did not address this issue of putting an 99Si up against an 99EX.

Okay, first of all, they both have 1600 CC's of displacement. And they both have Vtec. They weigh about the same other than the Si DOHC is heavier than the EX SOHC.

The Si will be faster due to the fact of the DOHC head and the fact that the engine is more efficient in air flow and fuel management by means of the Intake Cam and the Exhaust Cam. SOHC have only one to take care of both, (hence Single Over Head Cam), which means less efficient burning. The throttle Body is bored bigger, the intake manifold is honed bigger, Bigger pistons, longer stroke, higher compression ratio, higher fuel oil pressures. I can go on with tracking, exhaust size and so on and so forth.

OH BTW, I never said the EX would be faster than the SI. It wouldn't be OEM. That's physically impossible at that point! You can mod it to be, and those two seconds you spoke of can be reversed! When speaking of weight, I was speaking clearly on edge over the other. That alone will help! I never said that alone will beat the other, did I? Again, don't be reading between the lines.

[ShEaNy]

just swap ur engine....for all this silly building a D16...u can take the money get a 170-195 hp engine B16A - B18C5/6/7...then work with that engine..dont waste ur time with that engine u have..

Again I dont know where the hell to start....LoL....you are all over the place not to mention the topic went from building up a D16 to B16's to now SR20 motors which totally has nothing to do with the Honda family.

The whole point that I was trying to make was why in the world would you tell him to work a D16 in an all-motor application when it is totally useless. You will have to invest at least $1,500 or maybe more to come close to the performance of a stock B16. Now why would you use that $1,500 for parts for a D16 when you can buy a JDM B16 w/cable trans for $1,050 (factoring you can pick it up, if it has to be shipped add about another $300) and have a so much better building block.

The other point I was trying to make is, why sit around ***** about torque. Honda engines have very little low end torque yes, but why would you want to try and make more when again it would be useless. Honda engines are known for being high reving top end power cars. Take example the Si, when I race this thing, coming off the line at 5,000rpm usually it will dip back into the middle 4,000rpm range but then 8,000rpm shift, fall back to 5,800rpm and then 8,000rpm again shift, back down to 5,800rpm....get what im saying? So now why would improving low end power help me?

The point that I was trying to make with the Si and the EX was since HP is nothing without TQ (according to you), I was trying to show you 2 engines that have some what similar TQ numbers but with different HP numbers. HP means something cause if the Si had 127HP the Si would most likely be the slower of the 2 since the Si is a bit heavier.

And when I speak I speak with experience, I have built many motors both N/A and Turbo, SOHC and DOHC and I've had experience with building a LS/VTEC. I have been working on imports for about 9 years now and been through alot of motors and lots and lots of parts. So don't judge me before you know.

I am all over the place(examples and response to others) because you started commenting on swaps, not to mention you said my advice was BAD. Which is BS. Granted, "according to you", you have been working on imports for 9 years, which in my eyes is commendable if it's true, but I also have a degree in the field and high marks in physics for electrical engineering. So not only can I apply experience to the matter, I can also apply theories to the plate. As Honda does. Thank YOU! I have also developed many products under patent. So don't be judging me either buddy!
This kid asked what he could do to his D16!!! Not B16, not B18, not H22A, not H23A. He asked about the D16! He never asked if he should keep it or swap it. My response was directed to that of his question! PERIOD! Nothing else came about until you interjected and made your false remarks about what I said, which would only confuse the Lad or anyone else who would read!! And basically go against any other theory out there, except maybe KIA! So who is judging who? I was thorough enough for him to show him what would be involved before he started to tackle the painstaking task of engine building, specifically his D16! Only to later on decide he wants to swap it out anyways, but that is his decision and I was not going to diss the D16 as I have been very impressed with I have accomplished with my non-vtec d15. It has taken 3 years and $2500 to do, not one day or $7000! And my car is not slow! It took many lost races to motivate me into this stage, and I am proud to say I was able to learn more along the way as not matter how much you know, you never know everything! I love the fact that I am able to share that with people. With that said, I am an adult of 27 years of age, so I am done playing this stone throwing game and hope you are adult enough to do the same as I won't be back here to respond! My theories have been proven, my two cents was entered, this kid can do what he wants with it!

[ShEaNy]

its nice to steer em in the right way isnt it?....fact of the matter...what u can do it...tons.... what u should do it...nothing if u really have a choice.....back to swaps..... with all the money he wastes on building his D16 he coulda had a better MOTOR....Advice ON builind his D16...and only if he sees this...Will haunt him when he sees oh shit maybe i shoulda got this motor...Good advice can Be off the topic Relating to THe topic....we are talking about building a D16..u can do this and this...."sidenote" DONT....do this(swap)....its simple....ITS GoOD advive Either WAY...

Whether you believe or not that I have been working on imports for 9 years actually means nothing to me, I know what I have done and what I can do and I am more than satisfied with that. I did never question your ability or your experience as I do not know you and it would be foolish for me too. Although you, without knowing me questioned me about my knowledge and my experience, not to mention you took things a little further when you started talking with attitude and reverted to name calling. The quotes are below.

Originally posted by civicshark94
So unless you have done it yourself with this same application, I suggest you leave the comments to those who have. You should not go 100% by the experience or comments of others.

Originally posted by civicshark94
The car from stock starts at 140 hp @ 6,400 rpm 132 ft-lbs @ 4,800 rpm. The only engine that comes close to the Sr20de in terms of the displacement and horsepower other than the B20 is the B18 (you should already know the specifications of this Einstein).

I called your advice bad because thats what it is. You give him an all motor set-up for a SOHC, maximum money, minimal payout. I mean thats what these boards are all about right? Ask for advice and setups to see how you would like to go so that you dont have to waste the time and money to see what works and what doesnt. If he would like to stay all motor the best bang for his buck would be a swap. Though getting a swap and then turbocharging would also be a good idea, but it's not necissary. With the money you would spend on a swap you can take that money and invest it into the D16 to help hold the boost and run the car safely.

Also if you think that your advise is far superior than mine and the others that posted, why would you tell him to upgrade his clutch to a stage 2 and get a lightened flywheel when his car is an auto? The mouth is faster than the mind and the eyes, huh?

[nonovurbizniz]

I'm the "bill friggin gates" dude.

Your advise did suck.. I'm sorry I'm not saying anything about you or your experience or shop... it's just that with the first post you put here (I'm not even gunna bother with the follow ups)
heres what you told him to buy....

"exhaust and intake."
great thats already 400 minimum for 10 hp at the most
total: 400

"underdrive crank pulley, the assessory pulleys(over-drive)Pulleys"
another 100-150 bucks plus labor or time for another maybe 10 hp (more like 5)
total: 500-600

"cam gear"
Ya that makes a lot of sense in a SOHC car. IF you advance the intake your retarding the exhaust that's not good.
total: 600-700


"fuel rail"
If you can turbo your car without needing a new fuel rail then I think you just pissed 120 dollars out the windo for NO gains.
total: 700-820

"larger injectors"
Ya that makes a lot of sense. dump WAY more fuel than the motor you've put together could EVER use.
total: 1040-1140

"fuel pressure regulator"
WHY WHY WHY.... These things are a useless joke especially since your talking about getting an afc later. why would you have a mechanical adjustment if your planning on getting and electronic one?????
total: 1100-1200

"ignitions system(MSD SCI)"
No horsepower but I'd agree with this mod. sort of I'd suggest just gettin the modifier cap and coil.
total: 1200-1300

"Fields or Apexi AFC."
what for???????? He has NO ability to get more air in so why would he want to force more fuel in (especially since you already have him dumping more fuel via the rail/regulator
1500-1600

"Once you get all of that stuff
port and polish the head"
You have got to be kidding... this is the riskiest thing you could do. it will cost tons of money to get it done right and on top of it your forced to deal with down time on your car. Plus if they do a crappy job you end up LOOSING hp.
2000-2300

"Crowler makes an awesome cam shaft
This alone will gaurantee you 15HP"
I think you mean CROWER... and 15 hp get real. maybe with all the other crap you mentioned you'd have a TOTAL gain if 15hp at this point for about lets see...
total: 2300-2600

"thinner copper head gasket."
total: 2400-2700

"balance out the A/F"
Uh isn't that what the afc is for????? oh if your talking about lambda tuning his car sure i guess.
total: 2500-2800

With the cam shaft in place you are going to need Titanium retainer/springs "
total: 3000-3200

"The only thing you can do to the block is sleeve it and blueprint lightened flywheel"
Why in gods name would you sleeve an na block with MAYBE 170 hp (that's being VERY generous)
total: 4000-6000

"I strongly suggest you take your time and get the right parts the first time. Cheap parts/deals will only hurt you in the long run and won't prove to be much of a deal! Stick with brands that you know and can trust. But all in all, OEM is the most dependable of all parts."

Well that's good advice but then I look in your sig and all i see is obx. They make REAL good stuff huh??

IF you think for even a second this car will have 300 hp Your nutz

And as far as your car doing 0-60 in 6 seconds.... how in gods name do you figure that with the mods you have there is NO way that's even close.

My buddy has a 93 civic DX 2dr
hes done a total build up and NA and stock motor.
and just to have a little more punch he put a small 50 shot on his car.
he ran a 12.88@ for got mph

[ShEaNy]

how much did he drop into this engine? a 93 DX with a N/A running high 12's.....any time slips? did he gut the car? did he spray with that time?..

he did lose a few pounds pounds on that car but not a whole lot.
I dont have any but he might i will talk with him.
yes he was spraying 50 or 60shot on that run.
I dont know how much he spent but I do know he is selling it for 10k.
blits full body kit, molded bumpers, nice orange paint job, full custom interior, fuel managment system all kinds of stuff.
its a bad car

[ShEaNy]

yea...with NOS spraying i could see that happen...he'll be like maybe mid/high 13's or even higher without....thats pretty quick for a SOHC No Vtec...which i do believe thats his engine..?