So how hard is it now?

...to put a h22 in a civic...say a 93 hatchy? i mean, what do oyu have to do to get it in there? have mounts fabricated, i know hasport makes some, and what else? i mean, everyone says its hard...is it?

~Mike

yes it is hard...if u have never done a swap before...don't do it unless u have someone w/ u who have done and u make sure u guys know what u r doing!

Originally posted by Civic98
yes it is hard...if u have never done a swap before...don't do it unless u have someone w/ u who have done and u make sure u guys know what u r doing!

k...why?

[blind34_1]

well think about it. you've quite possibly one of the biggest motors ever put into a honda car (might not be true, but it is big). And you're putting it into a hella light econobox civic. Just look at a prelude or accord's engine bay, and compare it with yours. Big difference isn't there? There will probably be a lot of custom fabrication involved. You're going to need welding tools and lift, for sure. You're going to want to plan for a few months of downtime as you work all of the bugs out. Not only will you have wiring nightmares, but you've got to assume not all of you're car systems are going to be happy.

I've also heard that the brake master cylinder gets in the way of the intake manifold. relocation time! fun fun!

alternator clearance is another issue.

Then you've got to make sure you're hood will close.

and after all that, you get to peice together a new suspension system, cause your car is probably going to handle like crap.

Now, I've never actually done any of this, I'm just speculating based on what I've heard. But take the advice everyone is going to give you: If you haven't done a swap before, don't start with this.

Originally posted by blind34_1
well think about it. you've quite possibly one of the biggest motors ever put into a honda car (might not be true, but it is big). And you're putting it into a hella light econobox civic. Just look at a prelude or accord's engine bay, and compare it with yours. Big difference isn't there? There will probably be a lot of custom fabrication involved. You're going to need welding tools and lift, for sure. You're going to want to plan for a few months of downtime as you work all of the bugs out. Not only will you have wiring nightmares, but you've got to assume not all of you're car systems are going to be happy.

I've also heard that the brake master cylinder gets in the way of the intake manifold. relocation time! fun fun!

alternator clearance is another issue.

Then you've got to make sure you're hood will close.

and after all that, you get to peice together a new suspension system, cause your car is probably going to handle like crap.

Now, I've never actually done any of this, I'm just speculating based on what I've heard. But take the advice everyone is going to give you: If you haven't done a swap before, don't start with this.

ok kool, thanks for answering

[pdiggitydogg]

we just covered this a while ago (with links to honda-techs how-to page on it)
please search

Originally posted by HondaGUY2005
...to put a h22 in a civic...say a 93 hatchy? i mean, what do oyu have to do to get it in there? have mounts fabricated, i know hasport makes some, and what else? i mean, everyone says its hard...is it?

~Mike

ok I have a 6th gen Civic myself I am doing the H22 swap in. First of all I dont reccomend this swap for a first timer. If u are brave enough to do it then listen up.

things u will need:
-Hasport mount kit
-Hasport modified rear tranny bracket
-P13 ECU, or would reccomend the P72 ECU with Hondata mod
-H22A engine, tranny
-if u go with the 92-96 H22A's then u will need the firewall mounted map sensor
-OBD2 to OBD1 conversion adapter (if u want OBD1 obviously)
-92-96 engines will need the injector resistor box
-custom axles(1990+ integra axles/1990-93 Accord intermediate shafts and left inner joint), or u can go the easy way (but expensive) and get driveshaftshop modified stage 1 axles like I did.
-Prelude shifter cables
-Prelude shifter box
-Prelude upper and lower radiator hoses or 1992 Integra LS upper radiator hose or 1994 Del Sol VTEC lower radiator hose (all these will work or so I am told)


things that need to be done:
-lots of modification to wiring harness
-cut holes in chassis for shifter cables and shifter box assembly
-extend fuel line to reach fuel rail
-radiator fan shroud triming or get a slimline type of fan
-modify exhaust cuz it will not bolt up

I think thats it as far as the things u will need... check this link out for more specifics http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=650329&page=1

common questions and reccomendations...
-I found a company that makes aftermarket hybrid headers just for the H22 swap in a civic. http://www.imagineengineering.com. They are on a huge waiting list. About 4 to 6 weeks so definately get one ordered as soon as possible.
-Spring rates and chassis stiffening are the key to making these front heavy Civics handle. Don't believe any losers that say that its too heavy for the chassis and cant handle blah blah blah. They just dont know what they are talking about. Sure for a street car the H22'd Civic can handle pretty well. It will never be no autocross ripper. If u want autocross stay with the D series. As far as the spring rates goes no one really knows for sure. Some people say go with the prelude spring rates or things like that. I actually called Ground Control. They have a hybrid coilover set for Civics. Its for B series engines. The B series is only like 70 or 80 pounds lighter than the H22 so its very comparably. Their kit is a 400F/300R. I am going with 350's in the rear just for the bit of added weight the H22's have over the B's. I will let everyone know how it handles when I get it all together.
-As far as shock tower bars goes well I personally believe the stiffer the better. There is no better bars on the market than Carbing strut bars. check them out. Beware though they are expensive! http://www.passwordjdm.com
-Cold Air intakes. Well some people have used the Prelude CAI. I ordered the ITR intake (cuz it has the same diameter piping as the Prelude one). Obviously the Civic and integra chassis's are similar so thats why I choose the ITR one. Either CAI will requre modifing.
-As far as exhaust goes 2.5 inch is definately the reccomended size for the H22A's. No one sells a 2.5 for the Civic. U can go with a 2.25" one like Magnaflow or Thermal or companies like that if u like. Personally I believe a universal cat on the imagine engineering header, with a custom built 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust (from a local shop) is prolly the best way to go. Also for universal high flow mufflers I would go with Magnaflow. They are the best priced high flow mufflers that I have found with straight thru design. They are a quality company which makes good power on the dynos I have seen with their exhausts on . They are around 100 dollars for the universal mufflers.
-Ohh yeah dont forget to upgrade the anti sway bars for the front and get a kit for the rear. As far as sway bars goes I have had the Skunk2's b4 and I was not happy with them. I have already installed the Suspension Techniques ones and their quality is off the chain and they dont rub on my exhaust!!

Originally posted by blind34_1
well think about it. you've quite possibly one of the biggest motors ever put into a honda car (might not be true, but it is big). And you're putting it into a hella light econobox civic. Just look at a prelude or accord's engine bay, and compare it with yours. Big difference isn't there? There will probably be a lot of custom fabrication involved. You're going to need welding tools and lift, for sure. You're going to want to plan for a few months of downtime as you work all of the bugs out. Not only will you have wiring nightmares, but you've got to assume not all of you're car systems are going to be happy.

I've also heard that the brake master cylinder gets in the way of the intake manifold. relocation time! fun fun!

alternator clearance is another issue.

Then you've got to make sure you're hood will close.

and after all that, you get to peice together a new suspension system, cause your car is probably going to handle like crap.

Now, I've never actually done any of this, I'm just speculating based on what I've heard. But take the advice everyone is going to give you: If you haven't done a swap before, don't start with this.

most of your info is wrong. As long as u go with a good quality mount kit u will be fine. No brake master cylinder, alternator, or hood clearance problems what so ever. There is no welding what so ever either! Not to mention u can do it without a lift! U can drop the engine in from the top (its more difficult but it can be done). Ok and cars systems not working with it?? Its a hybrid like any other one. The engine is only about 70 to 80 pounds heavier than the beloved B series! U Need to do more research on this.

[AkimboStylee]

im doing a swap right now, h22a into a 95 2 door, and is it a pain in the ass, byt its worth the trouble!

Originally posted by HondaGUY2005
...to put a h22 in a civic...say a 93 hatchy? i mean, what do oyu have to do to get it in there? have mounts fabricated, i know hasport makes some, and what else? i mean, everyone says its hard...is it?

~Mike

Hey OPAKRACING, why dont you do a search for the last post you asked about this - i believe it went on for pages.

[Shaved &/or Laid]

i havent seen opak around in a billion years.

Originally posted by cashizslick
Hey OPAKRACING, why dont you do a search for the last post you asked about this - i believe it went on for pages.

hey, why don't you not start shit again....i'm HondaGUY2005, thanks...and I've never asked what it took to get that engine into a civic...

And this is a good question that a lot of people need a real answer too, cause i never get strait answers to it, so i thought i could get one here...and i did.

Originally posted by krwheeler85
im doing a swap right now, h22a into a 95 2 door, and is it a pain in the ass, byt its worth the trouble!

umm....so i assume a k series would be jsut as difficult right? cause i saw that hasport has some mounts for it now in a civic...wondering about that...

the H22 is not as difficult as it sounds as long as u are half way decent with tools. Its just a bit expensive. As far as the K series goes I have no idea.

[pdiggitydogg]

k doesnt envolve all the same work as an h does but id say the cost is higher for the h, but less physical work.
For the amount of money, the H is far better a choice for similar power.

[IALuder]

i dont get it. personally this swap is going to cost around 5-7K. why not just buy a prelude for that?

Originally posted by SFKing
i dont get it. personally this swap is going to cost around 5-7K. why not just buy a prelude for that?

Because OPAKRACING has alwyas asked us about impractical ideas like this one, you just have to get used to it sometimes.

[AkimboStylee]

beacause a civic is less weight than a prelude, plus its kick ass!!! i dont know whether to call it civilude, or a previc?? j/k, so far its not been dificult, just a pain in the ass, a lot of measuring, and then second measurements, alot of stuff like that, plus finding all of the parts and then having them show up missing something, that is why i dropped it off at a shop and have them help me, plus it is only costing me 3100 for the swap, with everything!

Originally posted by SFKing
i dont get it. personally this swap is going to cost around 5-7K. why not just buy a prelude for that?

Because u cant buy one for that. Duh. Atleast not a good one. One of my friends bought a 97 Type S with 86,000 miles on it. The sticker price was 16,000 dollars. He walked away with it for 14,000. That was about 2 years ago or so. Any Prelude that hasnt been ragged and is in good shape (we are talking about H22A VTEC, and Type S models) is about twice as expensive as 5 to 7 K. Also this swap doesnt cost 5 to 7K. Another reason is the Prelude is 2900 pounds. The Civic hatchs runs about 2120 to 2250 pounds. Hmm about an average of 700 pounds lighter. A hatch runs 13.30's to 13.50s bone stock on slicks. A prelude would be running the 14's with the same engine on slicks. We have covered this b4. It can be done for 3,500 or less if u know what u are doing and can do some wiring.

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
k doesnt envolve all the same work as an h does but id say the cost is higher for the h.....

umm big negative there. Have u ever priced the k20's? Try about 6,000 dollars just for the engine, tranny and ECU, obviously there is still things that need to be bought after that. U can get H22's for about a one third of that price.

Originally posted by blind34_1
You're going to want to plan for a few months of downtime as you work all of the bugs out..... and after all that, you get to peice together a new suspension system, cause your car is probably going to handle like crap....

ok just to finish up here. First of all it doesnt take months of fabricating. As a matter of fact I know someone that can do this swap in two days with all his own wiring, and making all his own axles. Its not really that bad. As far as car handling like crap. That is a myth, it can handle. Sure the stock suspension is too soft. Thats why its spring rates and strut bars are the key to making one of these handle. I have rode in and driven H22'd hatches that handle extremely well. Also another point people prolly dont know is the experience I have with these particular hatchs is that in a straight line they hook up very hard (compared to D hatches). My old D16Z 92 Civic hatchback with 15 inch rims with Pirelli tires, and an LSD, did a best 60' of 2.20. Integra Type R's usually run in the 2.3 to 2.4 range. So if that tells u how my old car stacks up. Well its not uncommon for a Civic hatch to break under 2 second 60 foot times on normal street tires. I am not kidding either. I didnt believe it until I drove one. As a matter of fact I just spoke to a guy whose Civic hatch ran a 1.99 60 foot on Falkien Azenis tires on 15 inch rims with no LSD. Pretty incredible if u ask me. The only way I could explain this if u ever see an H22 in a hatch u will notice the engine sits very far forward. It has a good amount of weight sitting in front of the axles. My only theory is that the weight distribution when launching is more advantageous that a D powered Civic cuz of where the engines sits; i guess u could say it plants the front tires in a way. Dont get me wrong u can still easily break the tires loose with the torque if u drop the clutch above 3,000 RPM or so (depends on mods obviously here).

[pdiggitydogg]

aw crap i did write 'higher for the h' didnt i
I meant k
k in a ek/eg/dc you need custom everything from manifolds to mounts, to linkage and wiring

[mistype]

[blind34_1]

Originally posted by blind34_1
Now, I've never actually done any of this, I'm just speculating based on what I've heard. But take the advice everyone is going to give you: If you haven't done a swap before, don't start with this.

Honda_Tengoku, you obviously missed the last part of my post. You got all excited about ripping apart what I thought I knew, and you couldn't wait. You did it twice, as a matter of fact.

I don't have a problem being corrected if my info is wrong, but I do have a problem when the correcter has a condescending tone. quit it.

Originally posted by cashizslick
Because OPAKRACING has alwyas asked us about impractical ideas like this one, you just have to get used to it sometimes.

HAhah! omg! you are crazy!
very impractical, so impractical that it runs a 13.3 stock...thats pretty fukn impractical huh? lets put a b16 in a hatch and have it run way less for more money. yea, thats practical...yea, k....BTW...who's OPAKRACING?

...I don't have anything against b16's btw, I like them.


Thanks guys, for the info...so basically, if someone helps me that knows what they're doing, it'll be pretty easy as long as i have the money to pay them of course....sounds gravy.

Originally posted by blind34_1
Honda_Tengoku, you obviously missed the last part of my post. You got all excited about ripping apart what I thought I knew, and you couldn't wait. You did it twice, as a matter of fact.

I don't have a problem being corrected if my info is wrong, but I do have a problem when the correcter has a condescending tone. quit it.

sorry was tripping a bit. I just dont see why people give advice if they dont really know what they are talking about? I mean I dont give advice on the K series swap. Why? Cuz I dont know anything about it. Again sorry. Just my two cents.

[pdiggitydogg]

Dude...it costs more money and takes more time to put an H into a civic than it does a B.
If you can make everything yourself and are experienced, then maybe you can eek out the H to run a little less, but the time is still greater...someone who has even the slightest clue can drop a B in around a weekend and the pros can do it in under 2hrs.
I know for a fact that you dont really know what youre doing 1/2 the time so unless youre having this H put in for you, I would suggest you not even bother.
Then again, this is just like the time you asked about spoon engines...

[IALuder]

wouldnt the motor at a ton of wieght to the front end? then you would have to reinforce the front end upgrade suspension. which is also adding to the weght.

plus your out of your mind on prelude prices. i got mine for 6300 and look at it. its in perfect condition. nothing worng with it. its got 75K on it to. hell its timing belt was replace 1 month before i got it.

[pdiggitydogg]

Its actually a huge myth that h22 civics handle like ass
Though the motor is heavier, they dont hinder the performance THAT badly.
An h22 W/ tranny weighs in at ONLY 35lbs heavier than a B
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550&page=1

Originally posted by HondaGUY2005
who's OPAKRACING?

You are

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
Its actually a huge myth that h22 civics handle like ass
Though the motor is heavier, they dont hinder the performance THAT badly.
An h22 W/ tranny weighs in at ONLY 35lbs heavier than a B
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550&page=1

my sentiments exactly

Originally posted by SFKing
wouldnt the motor at a ton of wieght to the front end? then you would have to reinforce the front end upgrade suspension. which is also adding to the weght.

plus your out of your mind on prelude prices. i got mine for 6300 and look at it. its in perfect condition. nothing worng with it. its got 75K on it to. hell its timing belt was replace 1 month before i got it.

What year is your Prelude? I am assuming its got the H22A1 correct? Its not the Type S or SH (god forbid if it is), is it? The prices I checked were for newer Preludes. I really dont consider the older body styles. I guess I should.

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
Dude...it costs more money and takes more time to put an H into a civic than it does a B.
If you can make everything yourself and are experienced, then maybe you can eek out the H to run a little less, but the time is still greater...someone who has even the slightest clue can drop a B in around a weekend and the pros can do it in under 2hrs.
I know for a fact that you dont really know what youre doing 1/2 the time so unless youre having this H put in for you, I would suggest you not even bother.
Then again, this is just like the time you asked about spoon engines...

yea, someone would be doing it for me...whats teh comparison between the spoon engine and an h series motor?

[pdiggitydogg]

a spoon engine is a waste of money, where an h would not be

[VR4_Craver]

IM thinking of maybe saving and waiting for a new accord V^ and slam it into my si

so what would a stock b18c1 with only suspension on the civic hatchy (1992) run in the quarter?

[pdiggitydogg]

4seconds flat
dont ask those questions...waaaaaaaay too many varialbes
just run it and find out...

Originally posted by pdiggitydogg
4seconds flat
dont ask those questions...waaaaaaaay too many varialbes
just run it and find out...

k

mid 14's stock. Like Pdiggs said. Too many variables to really be exact.