demonicaccord ::: brake disks question

[ebpda9]

i remember back from ph that you had those phat aem rotors. did u do the job urself or u had somebody else do it ? I wanna change my brake rotrs and cannot figure out how to take the wheel hub out. Took apart the calipers, ball joints, unscrewed the 4 screws in the back, and the hub still does not want to come out. What tools did u use ? Do i need a hub puller ? Please help me.

yeesh, you may not like this, but, if you do it that way, you have to actually take the whole hub/knuckle off and need to get it pressed out hydraulicly. I was told you cant use a puller because of posibility of damage to the bearing race, the little copper band.

ok, with that in mind, this is how mine was done, even though the AEM instructions said repeatedly not to, a friend at NTB got the 26mm(?) hub nut off, then attached a slide hammer to the hub via the wheel bolts and banged untill he separated the hub bearing and off the hub and disc came. . . . . . . yep, I just said that.

The bottom line is that it worked (tho it scared the heil outta me when he started banging on it) and he said there is no reason to undo everything unless you are intentionally replacing the rubber bushings. He recommends factory rubber bushings. but yeah, you'll have to take the whole knuckle off, or connect everything and do it the way my guy did, but find someone who knows about Honda hubs! IM me fer more.

it is a 36mm nut,

and using the puller is a better idea than what I did.
I used the four hub to knuckle mounting bolts and beat on them in sequence. once I removed the hub the first time I never seized the shit out of everything and it was 5 times easier the second time. It only took me 2 hours to change the fronts last time, with 20 - 30 minutes being used to get the car jacked up.

Now for the AEM big rotor kit. I see this as a complete waste of money. big rotors are not what give you stopping power, your pad contact patch and pad material is. so bigger calipers is what you need. second of all they charge even more because it is cross drilled and/or slotted. This is not a true performance upgrade, it is a theory that it is better.
T
he real conversion is in using stock Honda parts.
1. Accord Wagon Brembo blank rotors 11"
2. NSX/ Accord Wagon calipers
3. ATE Super Blue High Temp fluid

that is it, cost as much if not less and will give you more reliable and effective braking by far.
the thing you have to remember is that you have no clue what real braking is. You really do not need this upgrade unless you are doing track events. If you have never experienced brake fade from overheating or smelled your brakes cooking you are no where close to needing any of this.

[ebpda9]

i'm putting stock rotors on it. no upgrade. I had the rotors red hot once, and after they cooled they are warped.

for a street car your rotors should never get red hot...... how did you do that, run your pads down to the backing plate?

Originally posted by urbanlegend21

Now for the AEM big rotor kit. I see this as a complete waste of money. big rotors are not what give you stopping power, your pad contact patch and pad material is.

A larger disc will not overheat and cup as fast as a smaller rotor, depending on the casting quality and type of metal used

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
so bigger calipers is what you need.

a-ha, I see, well, give me the extra $800 and get some Alcon 4 pot calipers right away. Not all of us have mommy and daddy buying our parts.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
second of all they charge even more because it is cross drilled and/or slotted.

Of course s/cd rotors will cost more, there is more production time and labor, this is simple business.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
This is not a true performance upgrade, it is a theory that it is better.

Yes, it is a performance upgrade. Slotting and or cding a rotor allows for the pads to gas off more quickly and evenly ensuring a more constant contact with the rotors, as opposed to those gasses building up under the pad, reducing the effectiveness of its designed function. This is not theory, its real world preformance.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21

The real conversion is in using stock Honda parts.
1. Accord Wagon Brembo blank rotors 11"
2. NSX/ Accord Wagon calipers
3. ATE Super Blue High Temp fluid

That seems like a nice set up, but clearly the words "real conversion" are up to interpretation. By the way, I use MOTUL fluid and as of this afternoon, speaking of pad material, I now have EBC Green Stuffs instead of Nissins on there. The fact that the calipers on my vehicle are widely know to deflect badly with age is irrelevant. My stopping distance is dramatically shorter. Goal achieved, period.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21

the thing you have to remember is that you have no clue what real braking is.

whoops! I forgot this was the learn through insults technique.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21

If you have never experienced brake fade from overheating or smelled your brakes cooking you are no where close to needing any of this.

I have, thats why I got it. Simple as that.






Hey urban, how old are you? How long have you had an AEM upgrade that allows you to make these absolute statements about it? Oh, whats that? Don't have one? Figured. Well I do, it works, it was cheap, looks good, and was easy to install. Sorry I don't have Brembos, but guess what, Brembo has many levels of quality. Next time, do your research, use product #s, stop bashing, and get your facts straight. Then, maybe, I will take you seriously.

[ebpda9]

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
for a street car your rotors should never get red hot...... how did you do that, run your pads down to the backing plate?

rallying for 4 hours. i practice that a lot on the streets. Now the car won't be used except as a daily driver, until i get the dough to fix the body and then performace.

BTW i turned my disks red today after 15 minutes driving. Gotta see wassup with that

DemonicAccord:
I did not mean to be insulting to you and I apologize for that, but you do have a lot to learn about brakes.
Mommy and Daddy don't pay shit for me, so lets not go there. I have a lot of experience with brakes and setups. You have a misconception of what brakes are. People move to bigger rotors to fit larger calipers and pads. Your EBC green stuff pads have absolutley no place on the track, and offer no true performance stopping power. They have a great cold bite and keep their feel through a daily driving temperature range.
The brake conversion I described costs less than the AEM big rotor kit. Converting to a rotor over hub design is actually as cheap.
Todays pads do not have the gases that older pads do, so cross drilled rotors are a theory of the past. Go to a race track one time and see what most drivers use for pads and rotors. You will not see a lot of crossdrilled and slotted rotors and EBC or other common brake pads.
My experience with brakes comes from many days running at the track and working on many hondas, among other cars, during sessions to fix brake problems. There has been a many of time that we have pulled brand new slotted and cross drilled rotors off of the car and threw them in the trash to put Advance auto blanks on. I also have support from one of the better brake pad manufacturers on the market right now.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
DemonicAccord:
I did not mean to be insulting to you and I apologize for that, but you do have a lot to learn about brakes.
Mommy and Daddy don't pay shit for me, so lets not go there.

Whatever you say potty mouth

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
I have a lot of experience with brakes and setups. You have a misconception of what brakes are.

you got me there, I thought brakes actuated the canuter valve on the muffler bearing when your blinker fluid got low

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
Your EBC green stuff pads have absolutley no place on the track

as in other really useful posts I have seen you make, you display one characteristic that is constant, you seem to fail to read ALL of the previous post and then make assumption based on what your mind seems to fill in from what it just didn't read. I never said I took my car to the track and I said I have GREEN STUFFs not red stuffs which are intended for the track and used quite happily by two very good friends who race SCCA.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
and offer no true performance stopping power.

what are you smoking? Green Stuffs are vastly superior to Bendix, StopCo., Western Auto, or even stock pads and guess what? My stopping power is better now than it ever was. I gather in addition to not having ever driven a car with the AEM upgrade, you have never used EBCs either and know nothing of their long time popularity in Europe (guess who the largest supplier of brake pads to the BTCC is...hmmmmm)

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
They have a great cold bite and keep their feel through a daily driving temperature range.

Although it sounds like you pulled that statement right off of the tire racks website, we finally agree on something! but I still wonder what you call daily driving. Ever talked to pizza driver about brakes? No? A friend of mine has Jeep for *** sake and can make his rotors glow if its busy enough.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
The brake conversion I described costs less than the AEM big rotor kit.

Groupbuycenter.com

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
Converting to a rotor over hub design is actually as cheap.

Very vague. What car? From what other vehicle. Very vague indeed. Just cause they're Hondas dosn't mean you can up and mix-n-match parts

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
Todays pads do not have the gases that older pads do, so cross drilled rotors are a theory of the past.

Hmmmm, tell that to Brembo, or better yet, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Lotus, BMW, Mercedes...do i really need to go on? didn't think so.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
Go to a race track one time and see what most drivers use for pads and rotors. You will not see a lot of crossdrilled and slotted rotors and EBC or other common brake pads.

I have and I do, guess what I saw on 17 out of 23 CRXs....SLOTTED ROTORS!!! All of them Powerslot or slotted Brembos, go figure! When asked about pads, guess which names came up over and over....Nissin (AEM), EBC reds, and Hawk. Just to let you know, slot cars don't count as racing.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
My experience with brakes comes from many days running at the track and working on many hondas, among other cars, during sessions to fix brake problems.

OK, what track, what kind of racing, which Hondas, what kind of problems. Again, way vague. This doesn't help to support your claims of AEM products sucking and s/cding being useless.

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
There has been a many of time that we have pulled brand new slotted and cross drilled rotors off of the car and threw them in the trash to put Advance auto blanks on.

OK, but again, you give no reasons, product #s, or even who the mysterious "we" actually includes. Do you mean the guys you work with at Advance?

Originally posted by urbanlegend21
I also have support from one of the better brake pad manufacturers on the market right now.

Ok, who, and why is this important.

When I was in HS, I had many of my ceramic art pieces bought by individuals, 3 by Bank of America which are still in the lobbies of those respective branches in Detroit, Bloomfield Hills, and Pontiac. Does this make me a kiln expert? No. It simply means I am a good with porcelain. Why would I bring that up at all? Because it serves as little purpose as saying you have a sponser.

I will make this last attempt. Tell us WHY all these things you say are important, give up the cars, the models, the product #s. You make all these statements, some of them patently false, yet you have never even told what pads you use, what brakes you have, much less the car you drive (you DO have a car right?) What i can't get over is you have totally missed one of the key reasons import owners like myself get these systems, whether or not most of the buyers would admit it, the discs LOOK good in addition to their improved function.

Lastly I will say this, I'm done here and I'll tell you why. Urban, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded.

first of all I refrained from insulting your intelligence, although you think you must insult mine. Oh where to start.......
1. My frame of mind is one track. That performance upgrades sold to the average consumer, who will honestly never push their car to the max, regardless of what you might think, are sold more on looks than performance. Yes the AEM kit will give you varied better braking, but is not some great buy for performance braking. You can buy a good set of pads for your stock setup and aqquire the same thing.

2. The tracks I am talking about are places like Virginia International Raceway, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, Summit Point, Limerock ETC. Is that what you are looking for? They are road courses where braking matters more than ever.

3. My experience comes from my own car, a 94 Accord 4 door running brembo blank rotors, stock calipers and Carbotech Panther Plus pads. I also do a lot of work on ITR's, Preludes, BMW's, Porsche's, Mustangs. The work usually consists of rotor replacement, 90% of the time being stock rotors or aftermarket slotted and cross drilled rotors, because they have ethier warped or the slots and holes have filled with pad and rotor wear creating overheating and glazing. Commonly the pads we replace are pads you find in auto parts stores that claim to be carbon mettalic high performance, EBC green and red stuff, Hawk HP's, AEM performance pads. They feel great for a couple of laps but then are gone after they heat over their intended operating temperature. The pads commonly used are Hawk Blues, Carbotech Panther Plus and regular Panther's, Porterfeild R4S.

4. My mention of Carbotech is not because they sponsor me, because they don't, but because they are a company I talk to very often about setups and refer others to talk to about their setups.

5. All of your sports Cars with the big brakes and cross drilled rotors are like that for LOOKS. Come to a Porsche or BMW sponsored track day and see how many of their race cars run Cross drilled rotors.

6. I didn't miss the point of why most import consumers buy these systems, I actually acknowledged that. I am saying it is a bit of a misnomer to think that it is a big performance upgrade.

Another point I will make is that braking on the street, or on the auotcross track, and the instances of pad fade and overheating are not from the same reasons that you will experience on a true race track.
I am really glad you can sell pottery but I see no relevance in that comment. You are also quick to insult me like you have something to prove. I am sorry to inform you but I do have a little knowledge about brakes and their setup.

[ebpda9]

guys i would really appreciate it if u would help me. I'am trying to change my disks: Stock->Stock, figure out why my calipers are bocking abd do not release the gawd damn disk. Oh one more thing my car is stock and that's how it will be untill i get the money to upgrade it or to get another one.

Thank you,
~Stefan

Sorry,
Your pads are sticking?
Have you flushed your brake fluid lately?
Try removing the slide pins on the caliper(the bolts that hold the caliper together on the disc) and see if they are properly greased.
What exactly are you having trouble with on the rotor change?

Check this out.......... http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...+BRAKE+%281%29

[ebpda9]

i wanna get #15 out of there. no book seem to help me. It seems like i need a press or a hob puller or something just like that.

BTW grasing sounds that will fix my problem with the thing sticking to the disk.

Let me look in my Helms this evening and get back to you.

i believe #15 is the caliper pin boot, to remove it just take the caliper pin out

[ebpda9]

sorry i misread it. I think it's 19. The picture is not one of the best i ever seen. My dad will figure it out. he has a history of doing this for ages (20 years)