Dream to Reality

[JDMFantasy2k]

Well my dream is now becoming a reality. Basically, my father passed away some time ago and i was just able to sell some of his buissness assets, and now i have a consierable chunk of change. So i'm goin for it, i'm gonna boost the d.

So basically i'm starting off with.

a/f gauge
boost gauge
gauge pod
turbo timer
apexi safc

basically that's for now.

a question i had is that i've seen map "missing link" connectors, do they work? cause i was thinking of picking one up on ebay.

after that i was planning on getting just a regluar d-series turbo manifold (no wastegate port) for like 200ish.

for the turbo i'd like to go with this T3 TURBO

i just like the fact that it's brand new, and it's internally wastegated, so it makes it more simple and i know i won't have any problems. I assume this is a good price? And i'm assuming a T3 of this size shouldn't be too big for my lil sohc right?

then i'd have to get a downpipe flange, and oil flanges, from the same site. And then make a cutsom downpipe, and run oil lines.

Then i just need to find an intercooler and piping.

and basically, that's it right?

i figure after i just get it on and driveable, i'll add more gauges (like oil press, and egt) and after that i'd like to do an oil cooler.

Another question, can i take off the fan from my ac condenser and still have it work? or am i just going to have to rip off the whole thing?

Any other things you guys think i would need? any help is apprecieated, thanks.

[thermal]

First off, I'm not saying not to piece your own turbo together, but it could get difficult if you do not have the tools and resources for it. Are you gonna do it yourself? The piping will be your longest downtime. You will have to either get a shop to make it for you, unless you can weld your own.....

That turbo is a T3 super60. One of the best to put in a D-series motors. The price is too high tho. With less than that amount, I can get a T3T04e hybrid from that same website. Search around, the turbo doesnt have to be brand new! It just has to be rebuild and recondition like most of the turbos in that site. A reconditioned/rebuilt turbos are just as reliable since the internal journal bearings are replaced and blades are rebalanced. To keep your A/C, you will have to get a turbo manifold that will retain A/C. You have to have the fan for the A/C to make the A/C work. If you have to, get a pusher type fan and mount it on the front of the A/C condenser. It will work just as good.

What fuel management do you plan on using? You listed SAFC and missing link. I dont see why you want to do that. Read my previous thread on management units again. If I was you, drop the SAFC or VAFC and just go straght up Hondata and 440cc injectors. It will be wayyyyy worth it. Or, get a VAFC (not SAFC because you have VTEC) and a set of DSM 450cc injectors (or RC 440cc saturated injectors), then follow my procedures on AFC "hack". You do not need a missing link for any of these set-up.

Chepaturbo.com is a great site. That is where I get most of my turbo stuff. Go to www.homemadeturbo.com main site and their forums to get more info if I'm starting to confuse you... later bro. Let me know wazzzzz up

[JDMFantasy2k]

yeah i get ya for most of the stuff. Basically though, i just don't know what turbos are worth and if you could keep an eye out or suggest some to me that would awesome. Another thing is the turbo manifolds. Basically, only place i know to look is ebay. Any other sites would be apprecieated.

Management wise, i'd love to go hondata, but i don't know that much about it. Basically tehre's the s100 and the s200 right? And i think the s100 is uncustomizable and the s200 is customiziable but shitloads more expensive right? Not to mention i don't have huge ammounts of cash to spend on a stand alone system.

Basically that's why i wanted to do the missing link and the VAFC just to get it up and running, and then later on down the road (probably another month or two) i'd up the boost and probably get a set of DSM injectors and do the AFC hack. Also, i have a friend who is good at tuning the safc, and i'm sure i could pick it up quick too, but where the fuck would i even start to tune a hondata system?

another thing, why the vafc versus the safc? I thought the only basic difference is that the vafc allows me to change my vtec point, and if i don't have a cam then that is kind of useless is it not?

i've been to homemade turbo after looking through your pages, that's basically what inspired me, they got some awesome shit there. Another thing i forgot to mention, i'm 17, i've had 3 years of production metalworking in school ( welding, fabrication, use of shop tools), and my stepdad has a full garage, and he's building a shelby cobra (hehe, it's sick, 351 winsor, 497 bhp, 502 ft. lbs). So i'm pretty sure that if he can build a car from mostly scratch in that garage, that he will have the tools (welders, and other tools for custom fabrication) and knowledge to help me out.

another thing, i prefer an internally wastegated turbo, just to make things simpler, (ie: don't have to buy external wastegate and make extra piping for it)

so other than that, if you could give me some more ideas on where to find that turbo, with a decent manifold, and a downpipe/flange, then i will most likely give you road head.

just kidding, but the help is greatly apprecieated.

[thermal]

There are A/C compatible manifolds out there such as the ones from MAXREV and GReddy. The only thing is, when it comes to turbo flanges, you must go as generic as possible. So I would recommend a MAXREV or any manifold that will flange into a T3 turbine housing. Believe it or not, most manifolds out there for a Honda will have a T3 flange. So this should get you on the right track if you decide to get a T3. I'll keep an eye for one... i'll let you know.

It really depends on the power band that you seek. I like the T3 super60 on Y8 or Z6 motors the best. The spool time is between 1200-1800 and full boost around 4000 depending on how you set your boost controller. If you just want improved streetability, do not go smaller than a TD04 mitsu/Trust turbos.

Yes, the difference between the SAFC and VAFC is the VTEC function. Both will work on your Y8. I dont understand what you mean about the cam thing that you are talking about. You can adjust the VTEC set-point and see your VTEC kick based on what RPM you have it set-up through the VAFC.

Hondata. S100 or S200 will be fine as long as you have the "boost" option included. The only difference on those are datalogging readiness. S200b (b=stands for boost) is datalogging ready while S100b is not. However, S100b can still be upgraded leter on through Hondata themselves. if you want laptop capability and tune your motor yourself, the S200b will get you closer to that option. You will still need more Hondata software and hardware for it tho. In order to run Hondata, you must convert to an OBD1 ECU. The cheapest is a P28.... 5 speed or auto. It doesnt matter since once Hondata remove the stock chip, they will replace that based on what you want to do. Then request to get the base map to compensate for your set-up..... So just tell them what set-up you have and they will burn you a chip for a base tune. THen later, have it dyno tune..... yes, S100b can still be dyno tuned. I say get the S200b tho... not much of a difference.

You really wont need that much flanges. The only 2 things that you'll need will be the exhaust side flange and BOV flange.

THis is it for now..... later mang..

[JDMFantasy2k]

in reguards to the exhaust manifold, that's one main reason why i want to go T3 because T3 manifolds are so common and that way i won't need to fabricate an adaptor plate.

I'd like it to be decently streetable, i can live with getting full boost at 4K because if i get it an earlier than that i'm gonna get myself into trouble. Also when i first set it up i probably won't have a boost controller. I'll just wastegate it down somewhere around 3 or 4 psi, and then later on i'll use a manual boost controller to raise it to 5-7. And probably around a month or two later, i'll get the greddy profec B, and jack the boost up to 8 or 10.

The vtec thing i was getting at is basically, what's the point in changing the vtec activation point on an engine with a stock camshaft? I was under the impression that honda optimizes the changeover point for the stock cams, and unless you're running aftermarket cams with different grinds, that you probably wouldn't need to change the activation point. Unless of course, i want to be cool, and get the vafc anyway, and set my vtec point higher, that way once it kicks in, and i'm in boost it'd be like a 20 hp gain

I've heard a lot about the p28 ecu. Basically, where the hell do i find one, and how much is the ecu and a hondata set up gonna ring me? also if i just went with say, the hondata s100b, then i wouldn't need to run the s/vafc, right? since they'd optimize the chip for my setup? another thing, how would i change it later on when i want to up my boost?

Another thing, if i do go with the hondata setup, how do i get around the map sensor throwing a cel? is it programed in?

[thermal]

Okay, there are a few ways to do Hondata on a P28 ECU.

This is what I did:
I bought a P28 ECU locally for $75 and a conversion harness (OBD2b to OBD1) for $75. Then I had the P28 socketed for about $75 by somebody locally.

I ordered Hondata S200b thorugh a local shop for $475 plus a base map of $50 (refundable, if dyno tuned on the smae shop later). I installed everything..... just plug and play. Then got the car dyno tuned for $160.

Or you can do this:
http://www.wiredspeed.com/brands.asp...me=Hondata&Tp=
WiredSpeedlab can give you a deal for everything. A P28 ECU, RC440cc injectors, and Hondata S100/200b. You will not need a conversion harness becasue they will replace the P28 pinouts to a direct OBD2b match.... vice getting a conversion harness. You can also ask for a base map program. This set-up wil actually cost about the same compared to what I have done. Ricky from that site is awesome. he has different prices and probably cheaper anywhere else. If you decide to get the system from them, call him instead of ordering through the site. You will have a lot more money.... trust me.

you are correct, if you get Hondata, you will not have a need for an AFC and/or missing link. Hondata will prevent map code CEL since Hondata can control a stock map sensor to read boost all the way up to about 11-12 psi boost. If you up the boost later, Hondata will still compensate as long as it is not above 11-12 psi. my suggestion is dyno tune for 10-11 psi, then lower your boost for daily driving purposes. Either way, base map will still compensate for any increase in boost, it's just that it will not be tuned.

Dont worry too much about CEL if you get Hondata, especially after tuning. To be quite honest, all my friends including myself never had a CEL ever since we started using Hondata. This system is just the shiznit for the price....

Later

[JDMFantasy2k]

therms you fuckin turbo god i love you

so basically, hondata owns.

wow there's more chips on that site than a frito lay factory! umm so basically, i start by picking up a p28 ecu from these guys, then i can use that in conjunction with say , a s100b hondata set-up? what would you suggest is the best set-up?

Another thing about the tuning... say i just call up this guy, tell him my set up, and he pieces together a package that contains my new ecu, and the hondata. Basically, when i install it, it's set-up to run the car, at low boost, like between 3 and 5 psi right?

Then say afterwards, i could bring it on the dyno and tune it for 10 psi. How do i tune it, because i only know of two dyno's around my area, and i know one specializes in american v8's (and wouldn't know shit) and i'm not sure about the other. Would it be possible for me to tune it? Also what makes the s200b better than the s100b for me?

so i'd like to go hondata, if i have enough cash for it that is, because doing so would make it run as smooth as a factory turbo'd vehicle right?

otherwise, the other option, apexi s/vafc, then missing link, or just do the vafc hack with the dsm 450cc injectors right?

[thermal]

umm so basically, i start by picking up a p28 ecu from these guys, then i can use that in conjunction with say , a s100b hondata set-up? what would you suggest is the best set-up?

When you get the P28 from them, you will have to go ahead let them know what system you will be using. They will be making modifications inside the ECU. You're gonna have to get all of them at the same time: Socketed P28 ECU and Hondata S100b/200b. i prefer S200b since I do plan on getting the data loggin stuff later on for lap top monitoring and self tuning capability.

Another thing about the tuning... say i just call up this guy, tell him my set up, and he pieces together a package that contains my new ecu, and the hondata. Basically, when i install it, it's set-up to run the car, at low boost, like between 3 and 5 psi right?

Yep. you tell them what your set-up is and they will have a base fuel map for it. If they dont ask you, go ahead tell them that you are not using a 3 bar map sensor (anything less than 11 psi does not require a 3 bar map sensor). What will happen is that the base program will be able to compensate on any range up to 11 psi boost.....

Then say afterwards, i could bring it on the dyno and tune it for 10 psi. How do i tune it, because i only know of two dyno's around my area, and i know one specializes in american v8's (and wouldn't know shit) and i'm not sure about the other. Would it be possible for me to tune it? Also what makes the s200b better than the s100b for me?

You will not be able to tune your Hondata with S100b only, even if you were on the dyno. It will require the hardware that I was referring to. Even S200b is still not a complete system for self/operator-tuning. The best thing to do is locate the closest place from you who can dyno tune a Hondata system. Your base map will allow you to operate your car while waiting.

....make it run as smooth as a factory turbo'd vehicle right?

Yes

otherwise, the other option, apexi s/vafc, then missing link, or just do the vafc hack with the dsm 450cc injectors right?

Yes again... but you're better off running Hondata man.....

Latezzzzzz

Here's another great site to get Hondata:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=947507

[JDMFantasy2k]

ok i think i got it. Basically, i could really care less to tune myself later on the laptop. If i could just set it up, so that i run 10psi on hi boost, and 7 or 8 on lo boost (probably using the greddy profec boost controller) and basically leave it alone, i'd be estatic.

what if i could find a deal like

this
off of ebay. That would take care of the socketed p28 ecu and harness for my ride.

Then i could just pick up the s100b
since i don't plan on doing datalogging and whatnot.

basically, those are decent prices and should work correct? Only thing is, say i were to get that particular s100b, i'd have to bring it to a place that tunes hondata so they could adjust the base map to run my car right? Also could i just have them adujust it to run 10 psi right from the get go, bolt on all of my components, and then just run 10 or less psi? Basically as long as i don't go over 11 (because of the map sensor and my internals) i shouldn't have a problem, right?

or the other option is to call that other place, tell them what i'm running, have them send me the setup i'm looking for with my base map on it, or if possible, tuning for more boost (like 10psi).

well i think i finally understand all of this for the most part. So thanks again arnel, and i'm most likely going to go hondata

[JDMFantasy2k]

oops nevermind, i should have read your post a little more carefully. Basicall you said the base map can compensate for boost up to 11 psi, with no problems right? (since that's the limt of the stock map sensor, and more than likely, my engine internals )

[thermal]

Good decission. Hondata is really better, unless you already have the AFC

[JDMFantasy2k]

got a couple more easy questions.

basically i want to use my CAI as part of my intercooler piping, so i'm assuming i'll have to weld some of the bungs shut and attach a filter to the hoses that come off of it. As for the sensor that attaches into the intake, what is it, and wtf do i do with it. I'm assuming if i just leave it the boost will cause it to shoot out of the intake and that would be bad.

Another thing i've been reading up on is about positive crankcase ventillation (PCV) and how i may need a special PCV valve to vent the gasses differently since i'll be running boost. Do you guys worry about this, and what did you do about it?

found the article here

[thermal]

On 6th gen civics, there are 2 things tapped into the air duct or the intake piping that you have now:
1) IAT sensor (intake air temperature sensor)
2) PCV tubing which causes an eductor effect when the motor is running.

If you now have a some sort of intake system, like a cold air or short ram, all you have to do is do the same by having those 2 things installed on the intake section.

This is how mine is hooked up. Notice that the intake section (the section where the air filter is) has a black clip (IAT sensor) and a tubing connected to it (the PCV tubing). This is a typical way of solving that problem. Even the turbo kits for 6th gen civics are hooked up this way. I originally didnt have a tap for the IAT since my turbo kit is for a 5th gen civic. I made the modification myself.

It doesnt have to be this way. I have seen turbo systems on Honda where the IAT is tapped securely on the charged pipe next to the TB. It will be easier to have it on the intake section and I think is more helpful to ECU's fuel calculation since ECU's do look for the air temp as an input to fuel management..... but if you go Hondata, it will manipulate that reading anyway..... The diffrence, if stock ECU is used, will obviously be the actual temp. Turbos are compressors. When air is compressed, physics dictates that air will get hot. If the IAT is placed by the TB, it will read a hotter air temperature than atmospheric, therefore fuel management suffers.

Remember this:

If all possible minimize rubber connectors. Try having as much areas of the turbo piping welded. Rubber connectors raises the chances of boost leaks. Depending on boost level, connectors may even come off. It used to do it to me....

Keep in mind that dissimilar metals will cannot be welded together, unless "brazing" is applied vice welding. Brazing is expensive tho and not as strong. If you want to use the intake system you have right now for any turbo piping, the only way that you can butt them together is through rubber connectors. I know that most intake short ram or cold air systems are made of aluminum piping. Aluminum and metal cannot be welded together.... aluminum welding is also expensive.

Later man....