all motor vs turbo

[ChrisCantSkate]

ok i need help desiding, ive reached that point where i must choose paths. i always want a turbo, but then i know theres some added matenance, engine wear, problems and so on, and i wont have a bottomless pocket to repair my car. if i went all motor and got cams, and ported and polished, id be in the mid-high 13's. and with a turbo, low 13's. now what one should i choose? any opinions?

I would go turbo...Greddy is soon to be coming out with a kit for the ludes

I would definitely go with turbo. There are alot of rumor going on about turbo being high maintenance. But the truth of matter is that there really isn't more to it. Just get oil change every 3000 miles. If your gonna spend the cash you might as well spend it to get maximum result. WHich by the way is TURBO. IN GREDDY I TRUST>

[Racing Rice]

I agree with the other 2 statements.. Go with the Turbo. Not really anymore maintenance then a strong built all motor car. Plus you will get tons more power out of the Turbo when you want it, or ease it back to just a little more power if your trying to conserve gas or something.. (Who does that anyway). Just remember the key to a safe Turbocharged motor is fine tuning it.

[ChrisCantSkate]

Originally posted by BlazinCrx
I would go turbo...Greddy is soon to be coming out with a kit for the ludes

really? info? links? pics?

[ChrisCantSkate]

i just checked greddy.com, they just have it for 97-01 ludes i dont nkow why it wouldnt fit tho, same engine, we can use same intakes, hrm, time to email greddy

[2ndGenTeg]

The plumbing to run the intercooler is different.

Everybody thinks they know what my answer will be.

If money is a consideration, go turbo. It's easier to build a fast, safe car. People run into reliability issues when it isn't done correctly- which is true with any setup. The reason turbo gets a bad wrap is because you have a lot of people trying to squeeze more power than they should out of their setups (turning up the boost too high), and their engine isn't built adequately to take it. This is a lot easier to do in a turbo car than any other setup. So just don't get power hungry and give your engine more than it can handle. I would not boost more than 10 psi on a stock H22 block, and I would definitely not boost an engine with more than 100K on the odometer.

As for the kit, here's what I would do: skip the GReddy. GReddy makes a great product, but you can get a better setup for less money from someone else. If you're set on getting a kit, get a RevHard. However, I'd piece it together myself: Turbonetics T3/T4 ball bearing turbo, Spearco intercooler, and RevHard plumbing, among other things.

As for all motor- much more expensive, and harder to do right (IMO). I wouldn't do an all motor H22- yet. Jun has H22 camshafts in the works, but no release date on them yet. I'd wait for those before recommending an H22 all motor build to anyone. Once they come out, I can see ETAs in the mid to high 11s on a serious H22 build.

[ChrisCantSkate]

yeah, i was planning on running 8-9psi i checked f-max's out, they got 155hp gain to thw wheels @9psi with only and exaust and wires, no ignition adjusted, no timing adjusted, nothing. and that 155 was a upgrade from i/h/e/and wires. f-max has the best kit for ludes, rev hards dosnt turn the numbers on ludes, and drag donst fit very good. i checked the greddy, and its not gonna be worth it, the f-max is definitaly besty bang for buck.

[Racing Rice]

Fmax does seem like a pretty good kit.

Somewhere on the Net I found a guy that did a step by step Fmax install on is prelude. Sorry I dont remember where its at now, but I sure if you use google to look for it you can find it Fairly easy. Good luck...

[ChrisCantSkate]

ive seen a complete drag install, had some fittament probs. i'll look for the fmax one.

[Racing Rice]

Heres a pretty good site for Turbo Charged Preludes.

http://www.turboprelude.net/

[ChrisCantSkate]

heres what greddy told me

Thanks for your interest in GReddy Products. We are still currently working
on the Prelude kit. However we do not have any specific data to release at
time, no boost levels, horsepower, or pricing yet. We hope to have the kit
available by late 2001 early 2002. What we can tell you is the kit will be a good bolt
on street kit, that has a lot of room for upgrading. It will probably include our new Cast-Stainless Steel manifold, downpipe adapter, our GReddy TD06/TDO5 18G Hybrid turbo, our FCU, and all the necessary pipes and hardware, but again this is all preliminary and it may change. Currently we do not have anything for the older Preludes at this time, sorry. Please keep in touch
with your favorite Authorized Greddy dealer for more updates.
http://greddy.com/dealers/

racing rice, thanx for that site man, huge help

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by 4thGenlude
..racing rice, thanx for that site man, huge help

No problem man... I too am in process of researching for a Turbo for my Civic, so I know how you feel man. Good luck in your quest for more power.

[DRAG Boosted Si]

you'll get alot of props if u went with all motor because u will be able to hang with them but theres no money in the world that could get u up to speed trynna beat a turbocharged car, a turbo will always own....unless u cheated and ran NOS but you would know how to use it right to beat a turbo...

[Addict]

Personally I would go all motor on a daily driver.

Originally posted by DRAG Boosted Si
....unless u cheated and ran NOS but you would know how to use it right to beat a turbo...

OT: Not cheating. Its the same as adding a turbo or SC.

Hey if i pulled up to a Civic Si in my Civic Ex and he wanted to run when the light turned green. u bet i would purge those NOS lines and spray all the way through town. Call me a cheater all day long!

NOS is more like a gun. THE EQUALIZER!

Im a turbo guy myself but well said, maxpsi. = )

[ChrisCantSkate]

i dont think nos is cheating, anyone could buy it if they wanted it, now throwing a tack strip down infront of the other car is cheating.

Nothing is cheating. Its not what you got or how you do it. Its how fast you get from point A to point B. Its as simple as that.

I would suggest nitrous since you dont want any problems. Just get a direct port fogger and youll be fine. It will only run you around 750 bucks for everything you need purge, blanket and the kit. If your on a budget dont go turbo. You will have unexpected things to buy. Also no kit on the market right now has everything it should, mostly in the way of fuel enrichment. This is why i recommend nitrous.

id go with turbo just caus it sounds so damn sweet.

but i respect a 12 second all motor car more than a 12 second turbo car.

[slowEJ6]

ZEX kit......under $600 from Summit and you can probably find it cheaper elsewhere. yup. thats my suggestion. then have cash left over for a stronger clutch if you want, or body mods, or some other super duper neato crazy things

Originally posted by bret
id go with turbo just caus it sounds so damn sweet.

I AGREE. YES INDEED.

Originally posted by bret
but i respect a 12 second all motor car more than a 12 second turbo car.

I DISAGREE> I THINK ITS STUPID TO DO IT ALL MOTOR WHEN YOU CAN EASILY DO IT WITH TURBO. OR THATS WHAT I THINK ATLEAST.

[ChrisCantSkate]

as far as fuel enrichment... i have a vafc, and i have a fpr, i know injectors would be ideal, but ive herd the stock h22 injectors are good. would i still need more fuel system upgraded? new fuel pump? new fuel rail(already planned)? high flow filter?

[Addict]

Originally posted by hybrid3do0rcx
ZEX kit......under $600 from Summit and you can probably find it cheaper elsewhere. yup. thats my suggestion. then have cash left over for a stronger clutch if you want, or body mods, or some other super duper neato crazy things

$475 shipped @ Evan's Honda Specialist

[ebpda9]

if i were u i'd go turbo all the way. on ph i heard of a guy that upped the cr on a h22 from 10.0:1 to 16.5:1 and all he was able to pull from his engine was like 250 hp. With that cr you need to run on racing fuel.

What is the web page for the f-max ? I want a turbo for my 92 accord. i heard that they make a good kit for it. Will 122k be too much ?

[ChrisCantSkate]

fmax.com

[slowEJ6]

Originally posted by MrCLoWnY



I DISAGREE> I THINK ITS STUPID TO DO IT ALL MOTOR WHEN YOU CAN EASILY DO IT WITH TURBO. OR THATS WHAT I THINK ATLEAST.

you think an all motor build up is stupid? how exactly is it "stupid"? please explain.

www.c-speedracing.com has a dope project teg that was turbo and now is NA......seems rather impressive. i dont see how it is stupid.

Just saying that its easier to make more horsepower output with a turbo then all motor. Thats all. I mean im biased cuz i have turbo. Don't take it personal.

[slowEJ6]

i wasnt taking it personal, i was just asking. im a fan of turbo myself over NA.
but NA projects can be rather fun if you have the time.......and money.

K sorry if got you mad in any way. Just disregard what i say sometimes cuz im a clown and i have a big mouth sometimes. hahhaa
I don't really care how u do it as long as your car is fast you have my respect. JUST DON"T BE FASTER THAN ME THEN CUZ I"LL HATE YOU . hahaha

[slowEJ6]

hehe nah man, i wasnt mad about it. i was thinking of doing a NA B18C1 setup when i get my 5g 4dr but.....decided id rather just throw a B18B in and turbo it and be good to go with no internal work. ill save the work for my Supra
actually ive seen some ads for IS300's with Supra TT engines....and well.......hmmm, sounds tempting now

turbo and all motor both do the same thing
turbo = varible compression ratios for example if you had an 8:1 compression and you ran exactally 14.7psi of boost your compression under boost would be 16:1 , 29.4psi boost = 24:1 ( i think! not sure)
as for NA equals static compression i think the absoulte highest you could run on the street is like 12.5:1 on at least 96+octane (which here in CA is sacred) and i think the highest you can go is like 15:1 or 16:1 because the piston will hit your valves....
pros and cons of turbo
pros: LOTS OF TORQUE , nice sound (for some) ,varible compression ( good for street) still carry peeps and it feels fast, easy to install dont have to tear the motor out
cons: lots of heat! (killer of motors) turbo lag( not really true but still you car does fill slow not under boost) fuel managment, more maintence.
NA
pros: you can say you got a fast 4 banger all motor ( which everyone should respect no matter what!) lil more rebliable. (questionable) dunno what else
cons: you got to get upwards of 4-5k rpms to make power becuase of you horrendous valve overlap. Have another person in your car and you car is like 10x's slower

[2ndGenTeg]

Originally posted by hondaman-iac
if i were u i'd go turbo all the way. on ph i heard of a guy that upped the cr on a h22 from 10.0:1 to 16.5:1 and all he was able to pull from his engine was like 250 hp. With that cr you need to run on racing fuel.

What is the web page for the f-max ? I want a turbo for my 92 accord. i heard that they make a good kit for it. Will 122k be too much ?

16.5:1?!?! All motor, you'd have to run at least 125-130 octane to prevent detonation. That's some damn expensive gas, I'm guessing at least $10 a gallon, although I'd bet on 2.2 liters of displacement, you'd still get 50 mpg. Boost that, and you're looking into the 150 octane range, which is absolutely unheard of. Importboi is right: after you hit a certain point, valve to piston contact ("dropping a valve") becomes an issue. The dome of the piston is so high that when the valve comes down, it strikes the piston- big problem. In some cases, this can be remedied with a stiffer valvetrain, but with 16.5:1, I don't see that as a feasible solution. The fastest all motor Hondas I know of run around a 15:1 cr (pump gas 12.5:1 at 5000 ft)- that drops as you add boost. With a dd FI set-up (8 psi), I wouldn't run higher than a stock cr.

As for fuel enrichment, you can usually get by with your stock injectors up to 8 psi. Anything past that, and you'll be running lean. Keep in mind that the heart and soul of any quick motor is the a/f ratio, whether it be through aggressive cams, large displacement, or FI. Only when you're moving enough of both will upgrading the injectors be necessary. The stock injectors are normally good up to 8 psi. Past that, look at upgrading.

Finally, turbo lag isn't all bad. What if you hit the heart of your power curve at 1000 RPM? The answer: you'd squeal your tires all day, and never leave the line. Turbo lag isn't all bad. The key is finding the point at which it won't hurt your launch.

OT: I have a friend building a B18C running a T4 in the 25 psi range in an ef chassis- 550cc injectors and 9:1 CR (keep in mind, this is at a mile in elevation). Look for updates soon.

This problem of piston to valve contact that you guys are talking about. It is the reason why you can buy pistons made with valve recesses. They're usually used on V8's that are stroked but that same type of piston would work for this application. Does any company make pistons with valve recesses for the H22?

ya i know about those still they only goto about 13.5:1 compression safely after that they do some sorta work to the heads and crap

All motor is cool. It's always nice to be quick without the use of forced induction, which some people consider cheating. But, like it was said earlier in this thread, all that matters is getting from point A to point B. If another gets there faster, then it's only a prompting for you to do more work on your car.

Above all, have fun with the car and engine you have, we have an expensive hobby (I am personally aware of that) or maybe I should say, an expensive obsession.
Turbo is cool, especially the beefier exhaust note and the BOV effect. And the intercooler definitely gives the opening in the front bumper a nice fill in.

WEll Said IncuBus