A religous thread, topic; Heaven

[CD5Passion]

Originally posted by AzCivic
right they can go together, but inorder to do so you'd have to agree that humans are infact special and did not evolve into what they are today. right?

yeah you're right...humans are the only creatures on earth that fight against nature and thei enviroment..the only species of life that is surely destroying the only world they live on. if you mean we are special because we are fucking ourselves over hardcore than yes you are 100% accurate


mankind is a plaque on this world haha..i just tell it as i see it

[AzCivic]

you love that Matrix movie don't you?

we're also the only ones smart enough to figure out we're screwing something up and do something to stop it, if left up to their own, any predator would completely annihilate whatever it is that it eats. lucky for it, nature won't let it.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Not really. Since I can't prove anything one way or the other, I have no idea. These are just ideas. With all of the rampant, unadulterated stupidity I see these days, I find it hard to believe that humans are special. I mean...every time a guy ejaculates he releases roughly 250 million sperm. The fact that one of those hits an egg is far from remarkable. Yet for some reason, people still tell their kids they're special. Humans as a whole work roughly the same way. We WANT to believe we're special. We NEED to believe we're special therefore it's simple to concoct a scenario which makes us...go on, guess...special. The idea that we're made in (a) god's image is not only narcissistic but somewhat preposterous. Such an act would imply that we are modeled after a perfect being making us all the more special. Furthermore, does that mean god has a heart, appendix, colon, or pelvic splanchnic ganglian? Which reminds me...if you want proof that we've changed, look at your appendix. Rabbits and certain other animals use their appendiz to digest rough folliage. Nowhere in biblical history does it detail humans eating things like grass that would be undigestable by their stomachs. So, logically, that would mean that somewhere along the way mankind lived off a very different diet...most likely a long, long time ago.

still, we're the only ones who contemplate the notion of a higher being, that I think would make us special.

by god's image, i don't know if that was supposed to mean physical, mental, moral or what. since at first adam/eve lived w/out sin they were in a sense perfect like god.

also during the times of adam and eve, i'm sure they're diet was almost exclusivly vegetarian, like a rabbit, since there was no death or killing. so yeah, it may have had a function at one time, and as food became more and more processed and our diet included more and more meat, the need for an appendix decreased. then again there's studies that say its a vital part of the immune system in our younger years, so who knows.

[CD5Passion]

Originally posted by AzCivic
you love that Matrix movie don't you?

we're also the only ones smart enough to figure out we're screwing something up and do something to stop it, if left up to their own, any predator would completely annihilate whatever it is that it eats. lucky for it, nature won't let it.

what makes you think that I "love" the Matrix, or is that just you trying to make a personal attack?...me and steve just had a talk about this movie not long ago and how it's not that good of a movie and I quote steve not to mention Keana is a bad actor.

so that would explain why we still are polluting the fuck out of our home? and continue to expand our growth with little regard to other living creatures of this earth?

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
still, we're the only ones who contemplate the notion of a higher being, that I think would make us special.

by god's image, i don't know if that was supposed to mean physical, mental, moral or what. since at first adam/eve lived w/out sin they were in a sense perfect like god.

also during the times of adam and eve, i'm sure they're diet was almost exclusivly vegetarian, like a rabbit, since there was no death or killing. so yeah, it may have had a function at one time, and as food became more and more processed and our diet included more and more meat, the need for an appendix decreased. then again there's studies that say its a vital part of the immune system in our younger years, so who knows.

Contemplation is like a rocking chair...it gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. So what if we contemplate things? It doesn't make them true. I can contemplate that god is really a metaphor for aliens who came here in space ships and created us. Does that make it true? No...but there's about as much evidence to support it as any other creation/evolution theories.

Personally, I would prefer not to be made in god's image. If you read the bible, it makes it seem like god loves us infinitely, but if you fuck up once and don't repent it's your ass in the afterlife. It's like he's a prankster. According to the bible, he gives man free will and instincts...then sets the rules in opposition. Be fruitful and multiply...but no sex before marriage or with birth control. He puts things in front of you that you are inately programmed to want, but expects you not to partake. To quote "The Devil's Advocate", "Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste...don't swallow. And while you're jumping from one foot to the next, he's laughin' his sick fuckin' ass off". Ok..maybe not that last part (it's part of the quote, but debateable), but that's basically the way I feel religion works. Deny ALMOST EVERY instinct you have and you'll be accepted. It's bullshit.

As for Adam & Eve's diet...I remember them eating fruits and vegetables...but I must have missed out on the part where they ate grass and leaves and other rough folliage. That could just be me, though.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
we're also the only ones smart enough to figure out we're screwing something up and do something to stop it, if left up to their own, any predator would completely annihilate whatever it is that it eats. lucky for it, nature won't let it.

What? Huh? Did I miss that part in "how to act like a human" class? When have we ever stopped doing something we knew was stupid? We fight wars, pollute the air, destroy ecosystems, and rape our environment. We know it's stupid...but we do it anyway. I'm also not sure about predators killing off their food source. I don't know of any in modern history that's gone extinct without a little push from mankind. Ever wondered why there's a limit to how many deer you can kill in a season. Here's a hint...it's not because wolves are such good predators.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by Gosei_Passion
what makes you think that I "love" the Matrix, or is that just you trying to make a personal attack?...me and steve just had a talk about this movie not long ago and how it's not that good of a movie and I quote steve not to mention Keana is a bad actor.

so that would explain why we still are polluting the fuck out of our home? and continue to expand our growth with little regard to other living creatures of this earth?

What? Huh? Did I miss that part in "how to act like a human" class? When have we ever stopped doing something we knew was stupid? We fight wars, pollute the air, destroy ecosystems, and rape our environment. We know it's stupid...but we do it anyway. I'm also not sure about predators killing off their food source. I don't know of any in modern history that's gone extinct without a little push from mankind. Ever wondered why there's a limit to how many deer you can kill in a season. Here's a hint...it's not because wolves are such good predators.

thats nice, but I know this isnt the first time you basically quoted the whole "we're a plague on the planet, blah, blah, blah" whats funny though, is you say it as if no ones ever heard of it. either way, who cares.

i guess nothing is being done to stop our mistakes? the mistakes that were first made because we had no clue they were doing something bad. i guess there's no recycling, no large groups who's only goal is to stop a ship from killing a whale or cutting down some forest, or overusing anti-biotics, or trying to make pollution free energy, or whatever else you'd like to say is ruining the earth?

you basically proved my point w/ the limit on hunting, we put limits on killing dear because we could kill them all if we wanted, yet we don't. we learned by the previous mistakes of those killing off other animals that we need to stop. if a large population of wolves or whatever moved in, would it not try to kill everything w/ out a second thought? so we have the ability to learn from mistakes and do something about the future of this planet, yet no other creature on this earth could care, seems special to me.

[AzCivic]

Contemplation is like a rocking chair...it gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. So what if we contemplate things? It doesn't make them true. I can contemplate that god is really a metaphor for aliens who came here in space ships and created us. Does that make it true? No...but there's about as much evidence to support it as any other creation/evolution theories.

it still points to a higher level of intelligence, one that actually wonders where we came from and where are we going, rather than just, i'm hungry, i'm tired, i gotta poop.

Personally, I would prefer not to be made in god's image. If you read the bible, it makes it seem like god loves us infinitely, but if you fuck up once and don't repent it's your ass in the afterlife. It's like he's a prankster. According to the bible, he gives man free will and instincts...then sets the rules in opposition. Be fruitful and multiply...but no sex before marriage or with birth control. He puts things in front of you that you are inately programmed to want, but expects you not to partake. To quote "The Devil's Advocate", "Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste...don't swallow. And while you're jumping from one foot to the next, he's laughin' his sick fuckin' ass off". Ok..maybe not that last part (it's part of the quote, but debateable), but that's basically the way I feel religion works. Deny ALMOST EVERY instinct you have and you'll be accepted. It's bullshit.

so you think if you're a true believer and have complete faith and you happen to steal something during a long stretch of bad times then your instantly doomed to hell until you repent? thats not how it works. but if you were to steal something and you were a true believer something inside of you would make you feel bad for what you did, and make you want to repent anyway.

yes there's rules(birth control NOT being one of them) but isnt it funny how those rules, if followed, keep you out of alot of trouble? "no sex before marriage" keeps you from getting someone who you really don't care about pregnant, also could keep you from getting some funky disease. again its not as if you happen to have sex before marriage, that your doomed to an eternity in hell. god is not out to get you.

and adam/eve's complete diet and cookbook was not in the bible so really what the point in discussing it?

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
i guess nothing is being done to stop our mistakes? the mistakes that were first made because we had no clue they were doing something bad. i guess there's no recycling, no large groups who's only goal is to stop a ship from killing a whale or cutting down some forest, or overusing anti-biotics, or trying to make pollution free energy, or whatever else you'd like to say is ruining the earth?

you basically proved my point w/ the limit on hunting, we put limits on killing dear because we could kill them all if we wanted, yet we don't. we learned by the previous mistakes of those killing off other animals that we need to stop. if a large population of wolves or whatever moved in, would it not try to kill everything w/ out a second thought? so we have the ability to learn from mistakes and do something about the future of this planet, yet no other creature on this earth could care, seems special to me.

Of course there are groups trying to fix things. They make up...what...about .01% of the population? As of this moment in time, recycling programs in many major cities are jokes, hardly anyone needs whale parts for anything, people's stupidity and paranoia is the only thing causing overuse of medication, and there is no way of making pollution free energy. Paying these problems lip service is all fine and good, but it doesn't make them better. Wait...I'll be right right back...I have to go drill for oil in wildlife refuges to make the world a better place by selling that oil to China.

Ok...now that I'm back...I don't think the point that we place restrictions on killing proves anything except that a few of us had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. That, and we figured out that if we killed them off we couldn't have fun killing them anymore. Show me another species that kills for fun or "sport" and I'll give you a cookie. You make it sound like predators move in and just fuck up everyone's christmas. That's not how it works. Almost all predators will simply kill what they need to survive. I'll let you know the next time I see a wolf with a deer's head over it's mantle, though.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
it still points to a higher level of intelligence, one that actually wonders where we came from and where are we going, rather than just, i'm hungry, i'm tired, i gotta poop.

How...graphic. And yet...so inconsequential.

so you think if you're a true believer and have complete faith and you happen to steal something during a long stretch of bad times then your instantly doomed to hell until you repent? thats not how it works. but if you were to steal something and you were a true believer something inside of you would make you feel bad for what you did, and make you want to repent anyway.

yes there's rules(birth control NOT being one of them) but isnt it funny how those rules, if followed, keep you out of alot of trouble? "no sex before marriage" keeps you from getting someone who you really don't care about pregnant, also could keep you from getting some funky disease. again its not as if you happen to have sex before marriage, that your doomed to an eternity in hell. god is not out to get you.

I'm merely pointing out that some people's interpretations of "the word" are wrong. No, I don't think that someone will go to hell for stealing...true believer or otherwise. And I suppose the birth control thing was a bad example since that's really only within the catholic church. I've followed my instincts for the better part of my adult life and I've turned out just fun. I'd even dare say I've probably had a lot more fun than people had all of their religious baggae with them making it impossible to do what they really wanted to do. God may not be out to get me...but he sure enjoys fuckin' with the rules.

[CD5Passion]

Originally posted by AzCivic
thats nice, but I know this isnt the first time you basically quoted the whole "we're a plague on the planet, blah, blah, blah" whats funny though, is you say it as if no ones ever heard of it. either way, who cares.

i guess nothing is being done to stop our mistakes? the mistakes that were first made because we had no clue they were doing something bad. i guess there's no recycling, no large groups who's only goal is to stop a ship from killing a whale or cutting down some forest, or overusing anti-biotics, or trying to make pollution free energy, or whatever else you'd like to say is ruining the earth?

you basically proved my point w/ the limit on hunting, we put limits on killing dear because we could kill them all if we wanted, yet we don't. we learned by the previous mistakes of those killing off other animals that we need to stop. if a large population of wolves or whatever moved in, would it not try to kill everything w/ out a second thought? so we have the ability to learn from mistakes and do something about the future of this planet, yet no other creature on this earth could care, seems special to me.

thank you steve for beating me to the fact that no other predator kills for sport.

and AZ wtf man? I don't recall ever quoting anything about us being a plaque, I do however recall feeling that way about civilization.

[AzCivic]

your right animals don't kill eachother for sport, they do kill the young of a female so she'll let him hump her though, then again now that i think of it i have seen animals just kill something for fun, cats/mice are the first things that come to mind.

Gosei, maybe it was someone else, I can't recall the exact thread, so i apologize.

[AzCivic]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Of course there are groups trying to fix things. They make up...what...about .01% of the population? As of this moment in time, recycling programs in many major cities are jokes, hardly anyone needs whale parts for anything, people's stupidity and paranoia is the only thing causing overuse of medication, and there is no way of making pollution free energy. Paying these problems lip service is all fine and good, but it doesn't make them better. Wait...I'll be right right back...I have to go drill for oil in wildlife refuges to make the world a better place by selling that oil to China.

Ok...now that I'm back...I don't think the point that we place restrictions on killing proves anything except that a few of us had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. That, and we figured out that if we killed them off we couldn't have fun killing them anymore. Show me another species that kills for fun or "sport" and I'll give you a cookie. You make it sound like predators move in and just fuck up everyone's christmas. That's not how it works. Almost all predators will simply kill what they need to survive. I'll let you know the next time I see a wolf with a deer's head over it's mantle, though.

have you gotten bored w/ this and just want to be an ass now or what? just because things are going how you think they should doesnt mean they're not making a difference.

and i want my cookie for my cats/mice example, the males wanting to hump the female should get me another cookie.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
have you gotten bored w/ this and just want to be an ass now or what? just because things are going how you think they should doesnt mean they're not making a difference.

and i want my cookie for my cats/mice example, the males wanting to hump the female should get me another cookie.

Bored? No. Have I realized it's futility? Yes. This thing could go on for 1000 pages and I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change my mind. We'll simpy go back and forth presenting one example after another of something and then the other will counter it. I wasn't actually trying to be an ass...but I did feel like cracking a couple jokes to keep myself amused.

Oh...and I don't think cats and mice qualify. Cats do toy with their prey if it's small enough, but I don't think they do it for fun or sport.

[AzCivic]

true, it is somewhat tedious now.

how about killer whales and sea lions? i've seen a few videos where they just maim the hell out of them for fun.

and how does "toy with" not equal "for fun"? either way the mouse dies for no reason, same with lizards, bugs, birds and whatever else my cat drags in after it killed it for no reason.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by AzCivic
true, it is somewhat tedious now.

how about killer whales and sea lions? i've seen a few videos where they just maim the hell out of them for fun.

and how does "toy with" not equal "for fun"? either way the mouse dies for no reason, same with lizards, bugs, birds and whatever else my cat drags in after it killed it for no reason.

Domesticated cats, yes. But even then they'll usually eat what they catch. My cats always do. Some cats will present their kills to you to impress you or show their loyalty. Then again...we're talking about domesticated cats. They've been bred to lessen their natural instincts and be cuddly and cute.