War talk

[CD5Passion]

did anyone get to see or read the address given by George Bush tonight?

if not here's a link to the full address

Short Version

Full Address

so what do you all think. questions? comments?

I'm not looking to insight a fight, just curious on the views.

[GT40FIED]

I thought it was...typical. There was nothing really new. A lot of finger pointing, a lot of name calling, and a lot of ignoring our own problems. Bush seems to like to point out that setting a timetable would mean all the "insurgents" would have to do is wait us out. Well...we'll have to leave eventually, so don't they just need to wait us out period? I just think every time he talks about the war it's a joke. There's no way at all that we can win a conventional victory at this point and we'll refuse to concede that we can't win...it's cyclical logic. I don't see any proof of the things we went there to find but I do see proof that we were lied to in order to get there. Of course, Bush won't talk about any of that. After all, if we tell the truth, the terrorists have won.

[CD5Passion]

I'm sure we have made some of the people happy, but seeing as how a political leader over there was already assassinated. you think that just shows that no matter how hard we are trying. we can't win this. there's too many of them, and everytime america does one thing to piss some of those standing on the fence to say, the said terrorists gain more supporters.
we're trying to take people who have been around for a few thousand years longer than us and force upon them our life style.
the moment we step out of there the government will topple. basically to suceed we will need to commit mass genocide.
looks like we as americans have found our match as far as those with strong wills and beleif that what they do is for the right cause

[GT40FIED]

Well...like I said, it's cyclical. We keep fighting so we don't lose the fight. But it's clear now that we VASTLY underestimated the Iraqi will to keep us the fuck out. The thing that bugs me is that people talk about these "insurgents" like their instruments of satan. Look...if the situations were reversed and an army invaded the U.S. (and we didn't have such a huge military) you can bet your ass there'd be people in the streets using everything and anything they could find to fight them off. They'd be heroes, not terrorists. But when it happens in another country, all bets are off. I'm not saying I condone it, but it's important to look at the flipside of that coin.

Also...this "war on terror" is complete bullshit. If the war in Iraq has shown us anything it's that many of these people are, without hesitation, willing to die for their country or cause. So what have we done with that information? Piss them off more. Genius. Now we're eyeing up Syria, Iran, and maybe even Libya for shits and giggles. Yeah...that'll make things quieter on the homefront. Maybe if we didn't stop picking countries that are for all intents and purposes entirely muslim we might gain some clout. Maybe if we'd stop blindly supporting Israel with weapons and money while they shoot palestinian kids who throw rocks at them (that's like bringing a knife to a gunfight...or a rock to a gunfight), we'd have some say in what happens.

Bush needs to get his head out of his ass, admit he was wrong, and start asking some smarter people how to get this thing over and done with. People keep saying if we pull out now it'll all fall apart. So what? That's not our concern. There will always be terrorists (especially in these countries)...not much you can do about that. So why piss them off rather than just leaving? We can't kill them all and even if we could there'd be another lot to replace them. Right here Bush, right here.

[CD5Passion]

here 56% beleive that bush is not dealing with the war well
something like 14% are neither here nor there..the rest support him

that has to say something

it really bugged me how many times he used the date 9/11...

[Leets]

I honestly don't understand why everyone claims Bush has failed in his war on Iraq. Take a look at any engineering firm or virtually any business involved in defense or the oil industry and it would appear that the war was one of the best things to come along in their history. My father has worked for several of these companies and they all seem to love the war. Is it any surprise that Corporate America has been one of the strongest supporters of the current president?

The war in Iraq has been a giant success in carrying out what its real purpose was: to make more money. If Hussein was such a threat to the U.S. then why did he spend the first several years of his reign on the U.S. payroll? Prior to the war Hussein's Iraq had been as much of a threat to the U.S. and Americans as South Africa.... but you don't see us going after them flying the "Terrorists" banner. Didn't anybody find it odd that the government told us we were going to Iraq to protect the people, yet a large amount of our troops were in charge of protecting oil wells?

It's time we all just face the sad fact that the ignorant half of the country elected us a government that has sold out. We're losing more rights and screwing our future more and more every day. Look at how the Supreme Court has now made it possible for private corporations to get people kicked out of their homes in the name of a new office building or mall. Look at how journalists are now facing lengthy jail time for not giving up the names of those who are willing to let the government's dirty little secrets out in to the open. Where were the outcries when Great Britain announced one of the men in charge of info on the Iraqi threat had committed suicide shortly after word leaked that all the info was false. Wasn't it a little odd that he "killed himself" in the middle of a field, far away from anyone else's prying eyes. WAKE THE F*CK UP, PEOPLE!!! Your world is being taken from you!!! So what did we all decide to do?? FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! Thanks for ruining the greatest country in the world.... jackasses.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by Leets
Look at how the Supreme Court has now made it possible for private corporations to get people kicked out of their homes in the name of a new office building or mall.

Well...technically incorrect. A company can now petition your local government to tear down homes but ultimately it's up to your local government. This used to be applicable only under imminent domain...they could tear down your house (and pay you whatever the hell they felt like) for things like highway construction, to rebuild a shitty neighborhood, or for a park or some other publicly used facility. Now they can do it because they think your town needs a 3rd Wal Mart. Complete and total bullshit.

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm starting to agree with what the NRA used to tell people. They always said once the 2nd ammendment was taken away, others would follow. Instead now different ammendments are being ignored (namely the first ammendment) and others are right behind, ready for the constitutional axe.

[Leets]

Originally posted by GT40FIED
Well...technically incorrect. A company can now petition your local government to tear down homes but ultimately it's up to your local government. This used to be applicable only under imminent domain...they could tear down your house (and pay you whatever the hell they felt like) for things like highway construction, to rebuild a shitty neighborhood, or for a park or some other publicly used facility. Now they can do it because they think your town needs a 3rd Wal Mart.

I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. You're correct, it DOES have to be approved by local government. What I meant by "get you kicked out" was that privately owned companies can convince your local government that you don't deserve your home as much as they do. I do understand that it used to be up to local government to buy out your home in the name of public progress... but I hardly think life would be better if I lost my house so some scum can build a mini mall.

[GT40FIED]

Originally posted by Leets
What I meant by "get you kicked out" was that privately owned companies can convince your local government that you don't deserve your home as much as they do.

And by "convince", you mean "pay".

EDIT: This may be the best idea ever: http://www.rense.com/general66/sust.htm . Some guy is now trying to use the law to buy up the land of one of the justices that voted in favor of the law lives on to build a hotel dedicated to the loss of freedoms. Such a kick ass idea.