Cam Info Please

[soundspeed]

I just put a B16 in my civic and I want to put in some Type-R cams. My question is which ones. CTR, JDM ITR, or USDM ITR? Is there much difference between the three? Also I would be able to get the USDM ones the cheapest through a friend that could get them for me at cost since he works for Honda. Also, would I need to change the valve springs and retainers as well. Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. If it helps I plan on keeping the motor N/A. Thanks guys

[JDMFantasy2k]

First of all, there is not a huge difference between any of the type r cams. Get the ones you can get cheapest. Yes you can run them on a stock b16 valvetrain. However you could do things differently like i'm doing. Most b16's have a redline of 8200 rpm, and type r's are around 8400-8600. So to strengthen my valvetrain i installed integra type r intake valves, and inner and outer intake springs ( i matched the springs and valves since the springs are actually weaker because the valves are lighter). Then i took my stock inner intake side springs, and threw them inside the exhaust side springs. All b series vtec motors have double wound intake springs and single wound exhaust springs, aside from the type r motors (to my knowledge anyway). So what you could do if you want some insurance, is buy some inner valve springs and insert them in your outter valve springs on you exhaust side. I just went the ITR route because i wanted to replicate the type r valvetrain. But like i said, you can leave it stock and they'll work fine, many people do that witout a problem.

got this quote off team-integra.net .....

CTR cams differ only with the 1997-1999 ITR cams at the intake VTEC lobe duration ( by only 3 degrees more duration ) and ramp angle..that's it!! The intake max. lift are identical. The exhaust cams for both are identical. :


The 2000-2001 ITR cams are identical to CTR cams.


And yet the 2000-2001 ITR's make identical power to 1997-1999 ITR's!! There's no advantage in getting CTR cams for a B18C. - about 8-10 peak whp gain properly tuned.


As far as i know, the USDM 00-01 cams are identical to CTR cams again. So as you can see, the only difference is 3 degrees more duration on the civic type r intake cam. So get the cheapest ones, 3 degrees really isn't shit, especially when you could buy a real cam like, spoon, toda, jun, etc.

[soundspeed]

Wow, thanx for the input. I wasn't sure how much of a difference there was, but since I can get the USDM ones the cheapest, I'll most likely get those. I was also thinking about getting a Type-r Throttle body, what do you think about that? I've always has a thing for wanting to upgrade a B16 with Type-R parts. One more question, is there much difference between the B16 intake manifold and the Type-R one? Thanx again

[JDMFantasy2k]

the throttle body would probably help a bit. I didn't upgrade my throttle body because i can't justify the price of those damn things. Basically every one is a few hundred which seems stupid to me because theyr'e like 100 bucks for mustangs (another reason why i envy arnel, because he retrofitted some mustang throttle body onto an some intake manifold...). The type r intake would probably make a decent difference. The shape is on the same idea but i believe the runners and plenum are a little larger, possibly a little shorter but you'd probably have to compare them in person. I assume you're going all motor? You may want to look into other intake manifolds as well, i've seen a lot of people running the edelbrock one, and i must say it is impressive looking. Althoguh it's probably better suited for forced induction applications, i have seen it on many all motor cars.

[soundspeed]

yeah I definately wanna go all motor. I'll probably start out with the cams first and then go from there. When do you think I would need to upgrade the fuel system, via. fuel rail, F.P.R. or is that not needed? What else have you done to your motor?

[JDMFantasy2k]

well honestly if you want to go all motor, go balls out, don't do it half ass. Yes ITR cams are great, but i think your money would be spent better if you saved up for a complete valvetrain overhaul. Unless you just want to do little naturally aspirated mods to give it a little kick, but if you want some decent numbers, save your money. Once you got a good ammount saved up, pull the head, send it to the machine shop to be ported, replace all the valves with lightweight ones (i've heard good stuff about supertech and ferrera), then get springs and retainers. Retainers are tricky, people go titanium because they're lightweight, but i've seen titanium retainers wear down to nothing in 10,000 miles, and i'm not exaggerating, if you don't pull your valve cover every 1000 miles, they could really cause a problem, which is why many people stay stock. Then the cams are obviously a bit part of the equation, and a real set of cams will set you back a good ammount..

Now if you want to make real power with all that top end work, then opening up the bottom end is inevitable. In order to make real power in a small displace all-motor car, you need compression. Your average b16 has 10.2:1 compression, you'd probably want to get higher compression pistons in the neighberhood of 12:1, that way you can take advantage of the extra airflow. Lastly you'll need connecting rods because of the extreme stress of spinning up to 9000 rpm. It's not a total necessity, but if you throwing in pistons, it's insurance. Naturally once you perform all the mods you need to tune it on a dyno. Assuming you don't have much of an idea of what is going on (no offense, but i'm assuming you're new to the game), you should probably pay someone to dyno tune your car on the dyno, or possibly do a majority of the work. Also the fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator should be left untouched, in my opinion. As for fuel injectors, you should probably upgrade to something larger. I'm not entirely sure what all motor guys use, but i do believe the stock fuel pump should be sufficient for anything you could accomplish. Even if you did everything i said here i can't picture a b16 putting down more than 200 horse on the dyno. But like i said, it's all about how involved you want to get.

[soundspeed]

Thanx for all the help. I have to use the car as a daily driver still, so I won't be able to tear down the motor. But it might be something to think about for the future.

Cheers