You can't. You can unsubscribe to it in the User CP to prevent being notfied of new posts.


ps - this thread is fine. There's no name calling. Just debating.

Okay here's the classic Honda statement *a bit exxagerated but you get the picture*



I think we can dismiss the first quote. Unless you can back it up with an article in print, or a reputable website then I don't want to hear about it. It's the equivelent to ricer math. Oh and Uhm which is it. 512fwhp or 305? and if he's running 512 and can only muster an 11 second 1320, then something's horribly wrong. Oh and how much nitrous is the dude running? Next?

Yep and a heated debate it is ;)

So then EVERYTHING you have stated is not factual? Hmm. Way to shoot yourself down.:yes:

What have I not backed up with articles or reputable websites?

I think that's all.

I wasn't calling you out on that stuff. You said it yourself. Not me.

hahahaahahah the examples you've chosen, LOL. Make it stop ;) you're making my sides hurt.


Look carefully at what you've quoted. You beleive the world is flat too huh? It's called logical fact, prove me wrong there Civic Addict. ;) :crazy: :bow:

i'll see if i can get a dyno plot for ya, and i said the 11.3 was with 305hp. classic typical honda statment? your doing the same thing i am, but its ok that you do it. lets stay on a level playing field here. i want dyno plots for EVERYTHING you stated if your calling mine BS. want me to get

how about this for a non-vtec h23 motor?

Engine Modifications

H23A (non-VTEC)
Fully built motor

Custom Turbonetics 62-1 turbocharger (polished)

JE oversize pistons
Saenz connecting rods
Speed Sport Racing ductile iron sleeves
Blueprinted and balancing bottom end
Balancing shafts removed
Custom exhaust manifold and 3" mandrel bent downpipe

JG engine dynamics oversize stainless steel valves with titanium retainers
Speed Sport Racing turbo-grind camshafts
Speed Sport Racing throttle body
Custom head porting and polishing

Hondata engine management system (Stage 4B)
RC injectors - 720 cc/min
MSD 6AL ignition w/ MSD HVC coil
AEM pulleys
Holley in-tank and in-line fuel pumps

ACT clutch kit
SSR 3" mandrel bent stainless steel exhaust with Apexi turbo N1 muffler
Powerslot rotors with Hawk pads

Apexi GTR intercooler with custom endtanks & intercooler piping
Greddy Type-R Blow-off valve
Turbonetics Racegate wastegate
Guyon Racing twin pass, 2 core aluminum radiator
FAL fan, etc.

Performance to date on current setup (Sept 2002)

Dyno tested at 22-24lbs of boost on a Mustang MD250 Chassis Dyno:
491.2 wheel hp @ 7000rpm and 401.4 ft/lb torque @ 5900rpm

(DynoJet values expected - 530.5 - 550.1 whp & 433.5 - 449.6 ft-lbs torque)
(Flywheel expected values - >650 hp & 550ft-lbs torque)

Best E.T. = 12.3 @ 109mph
Best mph = 12.5 @ 118mph

Both runs were at 17psi & 3700feet (full interior)

thats an all show all go prelude. wieghing in over 3000 lbs. with less psi it is around 75-80hp less, and 3700feet KILLS times. 10 second prelude, but he has no LSD and cannot get traction for anything. this is probobly rice math though.

I'm not wasting any time on something you brought up. I have nothing to prove to you or any of the other Honda owners here.

Once again, you said it not me.

And with all that only a 12.3 Even if you were to empty that car, you'd maybe only pick up 4 tenths of a second off the e.t.

Let's see, read this http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/news/070701.html
and umm....this
which is located here http://www.dragracingonline.com/race.../idrc_8_1.html
And this
http://www.dragracing.com/sco/driver...?DriverId=1123

I'm compiling a list of engine modifications which I'll have by the time I get home from work tonight. Notice that there isn't any turbo or n2o and it's all motor :yes: :crazy: hehe
Granted this is all in good fun, I'm having fun are you?

Yeah I'm suprised he doesn't run faster than a 12.3. His trap speeds seem low for that many mods. Dunno. I'm not a turbo expert though.

http://www.zex.com/Gallery/MMP_4_06_02/
12.8 Civic Hatch.....
Go nitrous! :bandit:

Yeah..... I enjoy a decent debate. Now that people stopped calling names......

yeah, 12.3 is very slow for that, and the guy even admits that, it is traction. he cannot launch the thing without better drag slicks and a LSD. he will sit there and just smoke the tires

as long as this is in good fun, i'll have fun with you:bandit:

oh, one more thing, 3700 feet will take almost a second off your time. ask people who goto LARC with turbo cars, the air is real thin that high up. if that was down here in florida, on a nice day, we'd see low 11 second passes how the car was set up with 17psi. 24psi would be crazy.

3700 altitude does take off several tenths off of your e.t. however to lose a full second, given all the other conditions are similar (like air temperature, humidity percentage,barometric pressure, and track surface temperature) if I remember correctly you have to be at about 4600 ft above sea level. Interesting side note on altitude. In Florida their sea level is a bit lower then the sea level say in California. The Pacific ocean is higher (not sure by how much) than the Atlantic. That's one reason the Homestead motorsports complex (Nascar) sets alot of records for speed. The air there is a bit denser. Do you race at Bradenton?

Listen, that composite junk you are showing me pics of is only used because it is cheep make, and light. There is no way that is gonna be as durable or safe as a metal intake manifold.

AND by the way, I have raced many Neons, and they have all lost badly.

When a person does not believe something is true, they are not obligated to prove that.
EXAMPLE:
Let's put it this way, i do not believe in Aliens. If you do believe in Aliens, prove it to me.

Why are you in this forum anyway? Why dont you go make Neonstyle.com and make fun of honda's. (im sure your site will have some awsome tech threads about how to replace plastic intake manifolds.)

take it easy dude. he is making some points here, although he sees all hondas only altezzas and 6 foot triple deckers wings.

well with my job i got to drive a lot of neons (don't ask me about trim levels) and they all seem slower than dirt. there is even 1 there that has all the works with i/h/e and some cams and i really didn't see any difference in acceleration. they guy who owns it has a 2000 civic SI too and he said that the neon is a "picece of crap" he put less money into the civic and the results are far better than the neon.

True that, my bad. I kinda get fired up about this stuff. I havent read this thread in a while, and i assumed that since 4 pages were added since i last posted, that they were 4 pages of fighting.

no they aren't 4 pages of fighting. there are 4 pages of heated debate with clean posts.

nah, i goto bithlo,bradenton is much better from what i hear.

I know that. That is why in my post i said I ASSUMED they were 4 pages of fighting. That is why I apologised for my post. And i must say that i am impresed that they are not 4 pages of fighting. That would never happen at some of the other forums out there.

Well Mike neon guy after watching the NHRA Sport Compact last night I see that Scott Mohler is doing very well he won the all motor. Though he is the ONLY NEON who consistantly beats the other guys. So about you saying neons own at every level its bull shit. I saw a yellow neon get its ass handed to him. All the other classes where won by non neons. I would ahve to say that they dont own everything. Okay you ahve a winner in some other circuit but Im talking the about the big boys. I just think its funny that you keep going on about neons. I think you waste to much time on here when you could be elsewhere. Are you trying to convert us into people who love neons??? I mean come on. Thats like someone saying how Geo Metros own and are really fast. Its just dumb. Who cares what facts you bring up. Your just here to make people mad.

Couldn't have said it better.

i dunno about you guys, but i like the non-honda owners who come here and post constructivly, i've learned ALOT from them, not just the neons, but the DSM's a while back then the v8's that trickle in and out, and now the neons.if you go on supraforums.com or another website like that, theres alot of non-supra owners there. i think it keeps the board interesting. even on preludeonline, another board im a member of, theres alot of 240 owners and the admins are buying porsches now. other types of cars involved give that extra edge in posting.

Ya...why can't we all just get along...just one big happy family...:pfft: .

..i know..i'll go punch myself in the head now, you dn't have to tell ME twice..

Every comment i've made in this thread has been based off of what I see locally in denver. There are maybe 4 or 5 hondas out here that are what I would consider descently built up. Trenz(del sol), Phat 'n' Low(civic hatch) are both awsome cars, the paragon car wasn't too bad last time I actually saw it at the strip(paragon is on the way out from what i've seen).

I've never said hondas all suck, will say that most of the owners of those hondas, and especially nissans, tend to be dicks if you drive anything other than a honda or nissan. Trenz is really bad in that way, despite neons owning quite a few of the trenz cars, neons are still a waste of time in their eyes(2 neons pushin low 13's at 5830ft). I have no idea how much has been dumped into either of those cars, except to say they are both running HRC Stage2 kits.

I have as much respect for cars that are actually built up, not just running a rice can and altezzas as i do for any neon.

not that anyone asked me but im gonna say something anyway. i like cars in general. i nicely built up neon is just as good ans a nicely built up civic. moslty what i see from neaon around here are falling apart pieces of crap. some are "ricers" and some are not. also more peoplel rice hondas cause their friends think its "cool". for the people that are really into building up cars and making them fast we should all get along and learn from each other and just have fun. thats what cars are all about

That's fine, you may have beaten many neons. I'm willing to bet alot of them that you have beaten were DOHC automatics, which I'll admit are dogs when bone stock, however there are some fast ones out there even with an automatic. Explain to me this though. How is having a part that doesn't move, and that is not exposed to extreme temperatures, where does durability and interestingly enough safety enter into the equation? I'm not flaming, but serisously explain your logic. Another thing, what kind of times are you pulling in the 1/4? And don't say street racing. IMO street racing is nothing. There's no way to prove anything. The only proof in my eyes is a time slip (well maybe a dash mounted video camera but who's taking notes?)

well i will take this one....

1.) WTF is an expresso next to something you drink.
2.) Ok your time slip? Nothing to brag about. You ran a 15 AFTER you dumped 600$ into.... Am i the only one thats sees the problem there?
3.) A STOCK neon with the 2 litre has 132 hp @ 6 grand and 129 lb-ft @ 5000.
4.)The 1.8 ltr has 115 hp @ 5750 and 112 lb-ft @ 4900. that is nothing impresseive.
5.) stock civic has the 1.8 ltr pushin 125 hp @4500 and 119 lb-ft @ 5000. I think the civic won by my calculations.
6.) i noticed you conveinently left any type-r cars...maybe that one was a coincedence....
7.) My brothers STOCK civic spanked a 96 Neon numerous times and everytime it was the same...
I just proved almost everything you typed wrong.....;)

Last time i checked it was the all-motor RX-7 that ran constant 7....but i could be wrong. That guy that showed me was a neon owner and his exact words were " You will never see an all motor neon do 7's." I agree and shook my head..:yes:

fwd = Foward drive, RX7 is Rear drive

well ill be damned....i retract my statement then i have made a mistake....Sorry.

we all make mistake sometimes :yes:

Hmm, you're quoting the SOHC neon specs

95 Neon SOHC
132 hp @ 6000
129 lb-ft @ 5000.

95 Civic Si
SOHC VTEC
125 bhp @ 6600
106 lb-ft @ 5200

*Pulls out calculator*
Neon generates 7 more hp at 600 rpm less
and 23 more ft.lbs. torqe at 200 less rpm.


The 95 Neon DOHC has
150hp @ 6000 rpm
133 ft.lbs. torque @ 5600 rpm

95 Civic Si-R (JDM)
DOHC VTEC
160 bhp @ 7600
111 lb-ft @ 7000

*pulls out calculator again*
it takes 1,000 more rpms to gain 35 more hp out of the SiR engine. I find it rather interesting that if you divide the hp rating by the rpm you get 0.021 from the SiR then when you take the end result and multiply it by 5000 rpm which is the neon DOHC hp rating it comes out to 126 right back to the original specs of the SOHC engine. This leads me to beleive that the only way that they got that hp # is by spinning the motor faster. So, you say that the neon loses in hp/tq numbers. How? When the neon engine doesnt have to spin as fast and still generates more torque. Lets stay focused. Now lets say on this same logic tract, that the neon engine (DOHC) ran to 7600 rpm from the factory (it actually has a rev limit of 7350) under these same ideals the neon would generate 190hp at 7600 rpm and 166 ft/lbs torque @ 7000 Interesting huh?

That's not the JDM version. That's the Si-R which is Canada's version of the US Si.
2002 Civic Type-R
200 hp @ 7400 rpm
145 lb-ft @5900 rpm

Addict, look a little closer, you posted the 2002 SiR specs. I was posting the 1995 m/y.

SiR is different from Type-R. ;)

Not really. Your path here isn't relevant - the Neon engine loses its torque long before 7600 rpm, whereas the Honda motor is designed to keep pushing to higher rpm.

I agree that torquier engines are fun for city driving and useful for towing boats (I don't tow boats with my civic), but acceleration and lap times come from power output. The methodology behind all small engines (although the civic engine moreso than the neon engine) is to keep the engine smooth and able to rev high while still producing enough torque to peak the power curve later.

You're correct that "if the neon engine (DOHC) [could run] under these same ideals" it would produce more power. In other words, if dodge built the engine such that it could keep producing power at a honda-like rpm it would spank the honda engine. Duh, right? If I could build an 8L dump truck engine (max hp/torque around 1500 rpm?) rev up to 8k rpm with a flat torque curve, I'd spank all of you. But it can't.

I think you really have to look at the entire power curve to see what an engine does. The neon make power earlier but fall off and a typical honda engine peak (at more or less hp and likely less torque, depending which engine) at a higher rpm, with the torque curve staying higher longer.

I think I'm following your argument above; I just don't think it's particularly helpful, realistic or holds any water.

okay okay mah bad. I meant to be comparing the SiR specs DOHC to the DOHC 420a motor specs 1995 m/y

well, the 95 4 door GRS's had 170 or 180hp, thats still the 4 door family sedan catagory

I do not waste my money or time taking my car to a track. It is slow and i realize that, but it is still MUCH better than any neon i have raced.

I would assume that under hood temperatures are extreme temperatures that can melt cheap plastic.

I have raced 2 5-spd neons on an abandoned industrial street, from a dead stop and have beaten both badly.

http://www.rtky.com/93_honda_prelude.htm
wow... check that prelude out

:eek:

Ahh, I see, getting your car impounded, a sleu of tickets and an insurance hike is MUCH cheaper than going to the track. And I also bet that the time spent in court is also cheaper than going to a dragstrip. For the umpteenth time, it's not plastic, it's a composite. Like carbon fibre is a composite. I'd rather have a composite intake manifold than a carbon fibre hood. Assuming things gets you noticed :)

obviously the composite isnt good if they(chrysler) put an aluminum one on the higher end Neons, right?

read about it here http://www.cfa-hq.org/composites.shtml

The top of the line Neon SE has a composite manifold. The performance model (ACR-R/T) has an aluminum one to boost the performance and give tuners something they can enlarge and increase flow to the combustion chamber.

need i remind all of you that your talking about how great chrysler's are?

This must be one long joke thread because anybody who knows ANYTHING about cars knows that chrysler makes some of the worst cars on the market and I'm not saying imports rock chrysler's butt. The other domests are even better, I would take a ford over a chrysler anyday.

Took a 99 plymoth van camping and the dam parking break got jamed up when we used it on a hill. Then my friend owned a 93' concord, ha that thing was full of troubles from day one. 2 tranny rebuilds, link kit replaced and a number of other problems. If you guys were arguing about any other manufacture I might have kept my mouth shut but its chrysler, they make cars designed to be rebuild from the ground up after 60k.

Now can't we all just get along?

Dont fool yourself, chrysler has not given you any carbon fiber in your car. I have worked with a number of "composites" if thats what you want to call them and everythign but carbon fiber and fiber glass are closer to plastics then they are fibers.

now lets try not to bash the guy for racing on a quiet road, aren't we here talking about cars? It looks to me that your all compairing dick sizes!